File talk:Fascist genocide in yugoslavia.png

It's an OR image and should never be used in the present form. Germans weren't fascists but Nazis, Hungarian troops until the Arrow Cross takeover in Hungary were most definitely not 'fascist' and whether or not they committed genocide is a matter unsettled. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (t) 18:13, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In Yugoslav historiography term "fascists" is used generally for all occupational forces that occupied and partitioned Yugoslavia, including German, Italian, Hungarian, etc. I included this map into articles related to Yugoslavia and therefore view of Yugoslav historians about this subject is valid. Also, map is certainly not an OR, but it is based on a map that was published in Serbian history atlas for schools (reference number 1 on map page). Also, term "fascism" in such meaning is not used only in Serbo-Croatian, but in some other languages like Russian: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Фашизм (for example, this article in Russian Wikipedia describe all pro-Nazi regimes as "fascist" and same thing is with Yugoslav historiography). I do not understand what problem you have with this map? 81.18.51.91 (talk) 20:47, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And if term "fascist" is not used to describe all pro-Nazi regimes why this map is named "fascist Europe": http://www.terra.es/personal7/jqvaraderey/fascist.htm 81.18.51.91 (talk) 21:15, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We have English, not Russian or Serbian Wikipedia here. Please explain, which impartial - preferably English language - sources would support the assertion that some kind of 'Hungarian fascist genocide' took place in Vojvodina. Thanks in advance. As long as these issues haven't been addressed, the map remains unusable for a Western Encyclopedia. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (t) 10:37, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Western Encyclopedia? Excuse me, but you obviously do not understand the nature of Wikipedia project. This is not western, eastern (or what ever) kind of encyclopedia, but an English-language open encyclopedia, and due to the fact that English language is an World language, people from all parts of the World who speak English (whether as first or as second language) are welcome to contribute to this project. Speaking about sources, they also do not have to be in English - they only have to be reliable. If Wikipedia users read some non-English reliable sources about some subjects, then translation of these sources into English is also constructive contribution to Wikipedia. In such light, primary source used for this map is a reliable one - it is an official historical atlas for schools used in Serbian educational systems and as much as 10 professors are listed among authors of that atlas. Therefore, the source is reliable and it represents a viewpoint of official history, not some fringe or alternative theory. Contrary to this, you claims here are very similar to holocaust denial theory, which is indeed an example of fringe theory not accepted by official history anywhere in the World. If we speak about two specific questions that you raised, fascist character of states and genocide in Bačka, I also provided for you an English-language external source (map of fascist Europe), where term "fascist" is clearly used as a description for all Axis states in Europe (you either did not saw that map or you forgot to say your comment about it). That is very accurate map with very accurate borders and descriptions, which imply that its author (who, by the way, is not Serbian or Russian, but Spanish) posses a notable knowledge about WW2 in Europe. Speaking about genocide in Bačka (or most notably, the 1942 raid), it is well known historical event and even Hungarian historians are not denying that it happened. The only controversial issue about the raid would be claim of some Hungarian historians that the raid was ordered by "some rogue officers", not by the highest officials of the Hungarian state (no matter that some evidences would connect the raid with highest state officials of Hungary, including Miklos Horthy himself). However, this map does not arguing who of the Hungarian officials is responsible for this genocide, it only describe that it happened, and nobody serious would not deny that fact. One of the secondary sources listed on map's page is named "Racija - zaboravljen genocid" ("Raid - the forgotten genocide") and, apart from detailed decription of the raid, this source also contains a 259 pages with detailed list of all civilian victims who were killed during the raid. But if you want some English-language sources about that, please read this: http://books.google.com/books?id=hq3XLZ9Nw68C&pg=PA126&lpg=PA126&dq=backa+raid+1942&source=bl&ots=OkApnewFTW&sig=x4KIpKOz_UI3GskXQMzbdeItByw&hl=sr&ei=LRLATJu0KYrMswaO3IHZCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CDYQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=backa%20raid%201942&f=false and more you can find on google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=sr&safe=off&q=backa+raid+1942&btnG=%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B8&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= 81.18.51.91 (talk) 10:20, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]