Talk:Constantine Maroulis/Archive 1

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Constantine Maroulis is so much more than an enclyclopedia entry could ever describe. That said, get ready to expand his bio here as he is perched on the brink of worldwide fame. We will see more with his band, Pray for the Soul of Betty, as well as solo albums and acting gigs. His Spring '05 appearance as a contestant on American Idol 4 has given him a much-deserved launch into the American pop-culture idiom. But be careful, Maroulis is a classic that will outlast the proverbial 15 minutes.

American?

He is American, is he not? Yes, he is. An American citizen. Please keep the American biography stub footnote. Thanks.

I cleaned it up a bit - keep it simple!

The article looks smaller now, not because I recklessly felt like deleting mass amounts of text but because I found that some sentences or paragraphs were redundant. Theatre credits are now moved under Filmography. If there's anything you think needs to be revived, talk about it here. The whole point of the article at this moment in time is to inform people who Constantine is, not to promote, advertise, and gab about his every accomplishment. I think it's important for all editors here to maintain a neutral point of view and to refrain from redundancy. User:Special Editor

I've been trying a bit, but this is mostly much better. I might cite this, though: "He is often described as (or portrayed as) an egotistical, anal retentive, tongue-waggling geek by the media, himself and former colleagues." because I don't know how widely-known this is.

--Hamiltonian 14:45, 7 October 2005 (UTC) (oops, signing about a day later).

I'd have to rephrase that, anyway. User:Special Editor (I was logged in, but then the browser cookies deleted)

Ambiguous gender

I added male to the introductory paragraph to clarify to some people I know that he is in fact a guy and not a woman/girl. --24.163.57.201

I don't know what you're trying to pull, but why did you remove the signature of the registered user below? (I alredy re-added it). Also, your changing of "United States" to "USA" changed the direct link to a redirect, something we try to avoid here. There was no need to change it, by the way. Is there some other United States someone might confuse it with??

I removed your addition of "male" as well. The first paragraph uses the pronoun "he" which clarifies what sex he is. Please be more careful in your edits. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:36, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Massive deletions

An anon user, 66.57.68.181, has deleted massive amounts of text from the article—twice. I restored it once, then s/he came back and deleted it again.

I am not a Constantine fanatic, but deleting such large amounts of text should be discussed first. If you can provide a justification for such huge deletions, discuss them here first. Until then, I'm restoring them. — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:16, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

We don't need to know his exit speech transcript and trademarks and quotes are on the IMDB. With the exit speech and trademarks and quotes, the page looks like a fan site. Look at his entry page on answers.com, I think that is what a genuine article should look like and that was how it looked originally. 66.57.68.181

Right now this page is a massive link farm, too. The fan site links should be condensed. Hall Monitor 18:32, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree. — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:13, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Please stop removing my site.

Twice now my site (Greek Speak) has been removed from the list, and twice now I have re-added it. I can understand wanting to keep the article from turning into a massive links farm, however my sites (Greek Speak and MMO) were two of the first ones linked to on this page and I would appreciate it if both remain. Thanks. --Bonavox 06:02, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Looking at your contributions, the only thing you've contributed to Wikipedia are links for your website. Being one of the first doesn't make it notable. I just tried to visit your site and it appears to be down. Personally, I think all the fansites should be removed, except for maybe one official one. I didn't remove your site again, but I don't think it deserves to be on the list. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:17, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Is there a rule that says I have to regularly contribute to Wikipedia before I can contribute a link to a list? Because if so, I must have missed it when I read the FAQ's and such. Apparently you feel that your thousands of contributions and edits entitles you to dictate what I can and cannot add to this article. I feel that's a poor attitude to have, and it denigrates the spirit behind the Wikipedia project. I have not previously contributed to articles because quite frankly most of what I have read on Wikipedia is already well-written enough that I don't feel I need to add to it. This entry happens to be different. I run two of the largest Constantine sites on the web, I consider myself a fan, and I would like to see both of sites - one of which is a media site and the other is a forum for news - included in the list (especially since the ones you have chosen to include are not what I would consider to be among the best resources for Constantine information on the web.)

I feel this is beginning to turn into an edit war and would like to avoid that if at all possible. However if we cannot then I am going to initiate the dispute resoultion process. In all honesty I would rather not have to go that route that because we are talking about one link to a news site as opposed to sweeping edit changes, and I don't see how including that one link harms the content of the article.

I am going to once again add my site to the links list and I would appreciate it if both of you - yes Hall Monitor, you too - could lay aside whatever personal bias you have towards it being there and just leave it alone. I am not changing your article. I am not deleting other links. I am simply adding another information resource. Thank you. --Bonavox 00:30, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wow, let me try to sort through your response. First off, I don't dictate policy. Often I parrot Wikipedia policy, sometimes I accidentally break it, but I certainly don't make it. Yes, I have a lot of edits, but, as you note, that doesn't make me anymore "powerful" than a user with just a few.

I stated that the only thing that you've contributed are links to your site. While this is certainly permissible, it makes you look like a self-promoter. While I have no idea how you make money with your site—or if you make any money at all—just adding links to your own sites is vigorously discouraged.

Next, I didn't remove your site again, as I stated. I only said that I didn't think it deserved to be on the list. This is inline with Wikipedia policy: links to fan sites are discouraged. This article is already greatly violating this policy. And I left a link to your site in even though, as I stated, I couldn't get any reponse from it—it kept coming back as unreachable. Man, I thought I was being pretty magnaminous for leaving it in at all! Leaving in a link to a dead web site? Since when is that being combative?

Next, I have no way of verifying that your statements are true (or correct). If your sites really are some of the biggest/best on Maroulis, then no fan will have trouble finding them with a Google search. If your sites are as big/active as you claim, they should bubble right up to the top of the results list.

Now, thank you for trying to avoid an edit war. If you still want to initiate a dispute resoultion, please do. Wikipedia policy is on my side. And I'm not even the one deleting the link to your web site, though I may in the future. — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:09, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Finding myself with some free time, I decided to update the information in this article, as well as remove some factual errors and personal information (don't need to give the stalkers any more ammo than neccessary.)

Now, as to your comments regarding Wikipedia policy being "on your side"...while it is true that Wikipedia discourages contributors from simply filling an entry with links, excessive spamming (i.e. using bots), self-promotion (writing articles about one's self or one's products/services), I can find nothing that supports your claim that fan sites are discouraged or that my adding a link for a celebrity fan site to that celebrity's Wikipedia page violates Wikipedia policy. Additionally if you look at articles for other AI celebrities, such as Clay Aiken, Kelly Clarkson, Bo Bice, Carrie Underwood, and Justin Guarini...or even articles about Johnny Depp, Britney Spears, Hilary Duff, Christina Aguilera, Lindsay Lohan, and Tom Cruise, you will notice that they have fan sites listed under "External Links" as well.

Now, if you'd like to point me in the direction of the specific verbiage where it specifies I cannot add a link to an article for a fansite that I run - even if that site would be considered an external information resource for the topic in question - then I'll be happy to reconsider my stance on this issue. I'm sure you'll have no trouble with this if it is as "vigorously discouraged" as you claim.

As to my site being dead, had you bothered to check the link you would have seen that it was not dead so much as it had a typo. I have since corrected it. And I do not make any money off of my sites. My co-admins and I pay for them out of our own pockets as a service to Constantine's fan community.

Lastly, as I'm sure you're well aware, the process for getting a site into the Google search system is not an overnight one. The sites must be submitted for the Googlebot to search for the next time it crawls the web. There is no guarantee of when - or even if - submitted URL's will make it into the network. My claim as to the popularity and size of my sites in comparison to other similar fansites are based on personal obseravtion, membership rosters, and daily hits. Beyond that, I really don't feel a need to justify my claim to you. You are, however, more than welcome to do some research yourself on the issue.

I noticed too that you removed some vandalism from the site. I appreciate that. Thank you.--Bonavox 23:02, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Clarification on fan sites

For the purposes of clarification, here is what Wikipedia has to say about fansites being in a list:

The policy is described at Wikipedia:External links. Relevant section pasted below:

Maybe OK To Add...

3. Fan sites: On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such. In extreme cases, a link to a web directory of fansites can replace this link.

According to Wikipedia's help staff, it is okay for the links to be there. If the list is excessive, then a single external link to a links list is acceptable. I personally do not feel that there are too many links in the fan sites section, however since the two of you feel differently, perhaps we can discuss this and reach an acceptable compromise. The problem lies in determining what is excessive and what is acceptable. Let's discuss. --Bonavox 01:44, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My panties aren't in a wad over this. As long as the list stays somewhat short—as it is now—I don't have a problem with it. But it was a big problem when there were like 50 fan sites listed. — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:19, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

Neither are mine. The problem is that the Constantine Maroulis article was being turned into an overwhelming list of links for fansites. WP:NOT a link farm. In my personal opinion, adding links to sites which you are admittedly personally connected with is spamming. Hall Monitor 16:11, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)