Talk:Lost season 2/Archive 1

This archive page covers approximately the dates between 21 September 2005 and 26 November 2005.

Post replies to the main talk page, copying or summarizing the section you are replying to if necessary.

Please add new archivals to Archive02. (See Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.) Thank you. Baryonyx 20:05, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

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Questions about Episodes

Questions: How was the computer identified as an AppleII? I thought it to be one of the TRS models. Also, how would Locke have known about the "don't press the button" if it was told Shannon, and there was no indicatin that Shannon spoke to Locke about this. How is the apparent sunlight accounted for, as the Hatch is underground and the intrusion was done at night, or the wee hours of the morning? Buzmeg 13:47, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the computer isn't an Apple II (the execute button gives that away), but I'm not sure it's a TRS, either. I'm holding off on editing until I've figured out what exactly it is. --Jethomes 20:26, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually it's a hybrid. The computer portion is definitely the shell of an Apple ][ (but it's been modified to have an execute button). The display/monitor is from a TRS-80. The two 5.25 floppy drives (which were to the right of the computer) are also Apple. :Tenzai 03:57, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

The monitor is not from a TRS-80 either. It's a monitor ///. Shown here: apple II+. They've just covered up the monitor /// logo with a Dharma logo. Lost Apple. I owned one of these for a long time. As people have noted though, Apples don't have execute keys. It looks like the replaced the lower right shift key with the execute key. Hentai wolf 21:59, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Just wondering, but what is the song that Desmond plays inside the Hatch bunker?- JustPhil 11:15, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

It's "You've Got To Make Your Own Music" by Mama Cass. Awesome song for the scene. Very John Woo. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 14:54, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

To be a stickler: the song title is actually "Make Your Own Kind of Music". This song entered the Billboard charts in November, 1969. PKtm 03:50, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Two questions. One, the MoS,MoF summary says the"The episode begins with a man logging onto an Apple II computer using "the numbers".". Forgive my potential brainfart, but I certainly don't recall the actual login being shown. Secondly, I would make Desmond out to be a Scotsman, not an Irishman. Thoughts? -The Tom 15:15, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

If you look at the keys he presses, he writes the numbers although you don't see them anywhere else. I think his name refers to John Desmond Bernal, an Irish writer who among other things thought up the biodome (= the hatch). Mikkel 15:29, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

The role of Desmond is played by Henry Ian Cusick, born in Peru, with a Scottish father of Irish descent. And yeah, I first took him for Scottish too. --84.238.29.10 20:05, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I was just wondering, at what point did Walt tell Locke not to push the button? I remember him saying not to open "that thing", but I certainly don't recall any button-pushing.

Walt told Locke not to open the hatch in Season 1. In this episode, Walt appears briefly in the woods and tells Shannon something in backwards English, but it sounds more like "Don't press the button, the button is bad", with the "Don't" almost completely inaudible.

Is the final summary line about "...and Found" true? Is it really Kate's last show? Can anyone confirm this?

Excellent notes at this page, but are some of them coming from the script and not what actually plays out on the screen? For example, the line:

Jack meets Sarah's fiance, who is unhappy at the prospect of marrying a woman who will need constant medical care.

I don't recall seeing that. Did I miss it completely? Of course, the fact that there are notes on as yet unaired episodes furthers my suspicion. ----Tharsaile

Yes, he did meet him in the aired episode. Jack was sitting at his desk and telling the fiance. The fiance asks if Sarah will ever be able to walk again and Jack says it is unlikely. The fiance never shows up again. Mikkel 22:34, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Is the person who was with Desmond in the Hatch named "Kelvin," as the article states, or "Calvin"? I think the latter would fit in better with the trend of characters named after philosophers.

Thanks, Mikkel (should I indent this?) Another question for those who record the show: Did the egg yolks in Desmond's blender look normal to you, or were they red? ----Tharsaile

Locke's Father

Several times now in the episode reviews the man who got Locke's kidney is referred to as his father. I do not believe this is correct. In the original episode last year my impression certainly was that this was just some rich guy who was able to find out Locke was a match for him and have his background otherwise investigated, and then played the part of the father Locke longed for. My certainty has only increased with the recent episode. The evidence is there in the scene where Locke has been waiting outside the guy's house again, and the guy gets into the car with Locke. The guy says "I suppose you're wondering 'Why you?' " and Locke agrees that he is. This confirms for me that Locke also does not believe the man is his father, or there would be no need to wonder why. The guy's response only clinches the matter when he says something along the lines of there being a sucker born every minute. Before this is changed, do other people agree? (particularly those adept enough at the coding to change it without difficulty)

• That's a fine speculation. However, the articles must continue to refer to Mr. Cooper as Locke's father until the series itself confirms otherwise. This speculation should not be placed on any of the articles, as these pages are encyclopaedic in nature, not a place for fansite speculation. Baryonyx 03:26, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
• In the episode where his mother finds him Locke hires the PI. Dosen't the PI do DNA tests and confirm the father. Joshuarob 18:22, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Locke refers to Cooper as his father, during the support group meeting, in the episode Episodes of Lost (Season 2)#Orientation:

  "Couple years ago, my birth mother found me, and she told me I was special. And through her, I met my real father. Great news, right? Well, he pretended to love me just long enough to steal my kidney, because he had to have a transplant, and then he dropped me back in the world like a piece of trash, just like he did on the day that I was born."

That's pretty clear cut, I'd say.

The question in the scene between Locke and Cooper in the car is not "Why you?" -- but simply, "Why?" asked by Locke, to which Cooper responds, "There is no 'why.' You think you're the first person that ever got conned? You needed a father figure and I needed a kidney; and that's what happened. Get over it... And John, don't come back. You're not wanted." At which point, Locke becomes emotionally distraught. That's not the reaction of someone who was just told he was the mark of a con job (Locke already knew that); that's the response of a child being told he's not loved. — LeFlyman 19:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I (the original poster) am mostly convinced -- certainly enough to stop suggesting the summary be changed. Still, I think there's a chance that Cooper merely conned Locke into thinking he was his father to get his kidney. The evidence is as thin as a thread on fire, but Locke's (obviously disturbed) mother told him he has no father but God, and I was thinking the writers would kick this around and have some fun with it for a while.

I agree that it would be an interesting plot twist to have Cooper turn out not to be Locke's father, but as such, it's just a possible speculation right now, and not what's been presented in the series so far. So far we've been told he is Locke's father, and as editors on Wikipedia, we should take it at face value, until (as Baryonyx says above) we're told otherwise. LeFlyman 02:51, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Hurley Snowman joke

In which episode did Hurley give the response to the Snowman joke? I don't recall that. Also, how do you see the Dharma logo on the shark's fin? --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:45, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure what snowman joke you're talking about, but as for the shark, when watching it for the first time I managed to notice there was definitely something on the end of the sharks tail and it swam by the camera. I'm sure people who captured the episode re-watched it to see what it was. -- MacAddct1984 18:32, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, the snowman thing was the question that Desmond poses to Locke. An editor added a note claiming that Hurley has given the answer as "Does it smell like carrots to you" in a previous episode. This is certainly a cogent response to the riddle, but I don't remember it occurring. I will add the shark tail logo thing back in though. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 18:35, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't think Hurley's ever said that... though the word yet should be applied to that. Desmond is looking for "him," the him being the person who can answer the question. Locke couldn't. Hurley might be able to a few episodes down the line. However, this has not happened YET, and as such is a supposition (probably based on the fact that Hurley's episode is upcoming, and the description involves him doing something hatch related), which doesn't belong on the page, unless someone can provide transcript evidence of the line. Baryonyx 18:42, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

The only thing I can find by looking at episode transcripts is Hurley asking Jin if he wants to make snowballs while trying to decipher his hand gestures during the building of the raft in episode 18. As far as I can tell, there are no other mentions of jokes, riddles, carrots, or snow that have relevance to this context. Mikkel 19:17, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Citation

Information about future episodes that is not cited on official websites or other authoritative sources will be removed in accordance with Wikipedia:Verifiability policy. Please cite this information either in the article or on this talk page. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 20:16, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

This right now includes the listing of any flashback speculation about future episodes, episode summaries that don't come from authoritative sources. BTW, tv.com does not count as an authoritative source as the information is also fan-supplied. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 21:52, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

What is the source for the future episode flashbacks? Is it just speculation based on the episode titles? --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 03:42, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

This is a source of furure flashbacks. Pictures from "...and Found" http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=745

And from Abandoned: http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=755

You can cleary see that the first episode got Jin flashbacks and the second SHannon flashbacks.

I can't find proof that "The other 48 days" will be Ana-Lucia centric, so I'll leave that open.

That's cool, promotional photos released could be considered sources, but where are you getting your descriptive plot synopses? Also, sign your posts with --~~~~. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 15:38, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd imagine the plot synopses are just TV Guide or TiVo "preview" blurbs that you see when you select Lost in a menu. Looking at TV Guide's listings page, I can confirm the blurb for "...And Found". The one for "Abandoned" is different, but I'm not sure what TV Guide's source is, so I'm not copying it over in case of copyvio. Baryonyx 17:40, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I took the "...and found" preview from abc's page: http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index.html

I took the "Abandoned" preview from tv.com's episode guide, but they're down at the moment so I can't recover it. --~~~~

Cosmos/Old Habits? User 84.139.152.1 replaced my entry regarding episode 2.8 with the new title "Old Habits." That appears to be user 84.139.152.1's only wikipedia edit. There is no source info for this change here. IMDB is still reporting the title is Cosmos. At bottom on this page: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411008/guests . Given there is no source to the other edit, I'm changing the entry back to Cosmos. --Kirby Morgan 18:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

• I think it is safe to say that "Cosmos" is going to be a Charlie-centric episode, assuming that the information about guest stars that IMDB has is correct, for it lists Liam, Charlie's brother, for that episode.

http://elitemrp.net/fark/2005/logoshark2.jpg

Desmond: Irish or Scottish?

From above:

• I would make Desmond out to be a Scotsman, not an Irishman. Thoughts? -The Tom 15:15, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

• The role of Desmond is played by Henry Ian Cusick, born in Peru, with a Scottish father of Irish descent. And yeah, I first took him for Scottish too. --84.238.29.10 20:05, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

• I think his name refers to John Desmond Bernal, an Irish writer who among other things thought up the biodome (= the hatch). Mikkel 15:29, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

• That may be, although the show's Desmond doesn't have anything to do with the creation of the "biodome" and the design itself is a geodesic dome, ala Buckminster Fuller. It may just be the case of a common Irish name being used. Most of the characters on Lost who might have real world counterparts are linked by full name (John Locke, Anthony Cooper) or surname (Rousseau, Carlyle), rather than just first name. However, guessing if the name is a reference to someone is pure speculation, and outside our scope :)

The debate goes on....

• I'm fairly sure that Desmond is an Irishman. Desmond is an historically Irish name (from gaelic Deas Mhumhan meaning "from Munster",which is in Ireland) and the yet another philosopher seems to confirm my suspicions. The accent sounds Irish, but I am not a British or Irish citizen so I probably can't accurately identify the accent, but until someone with more knowledge can verify it shouldn't be listed as either. If listing his nationality is important then we should probably go with Irish, given the reasons above.

• In Orientation he at one point says "We're all ginnae die". As far as I know the -ae contraction is a purely Scots English phenomenon, not an Irish one. --86.135.87.145 16:30, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

• Merely having an historically Irish name does not make one Irish. If his nationality becomes an important point, we should bear in mind that he speaks with a clearly Scottish accent.

Desmond is also a very common English name, I thought him to be from middle-sex or there abouts. My father has an identical accent and is from Birmingham. [shrug] Jachin 19:48, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

• Hi folks, Desmond is 100% scottish. The reason i know this is that i am 100% scottish!! Just to clear this up for people. It sounds as if his accent is from the west coast of scotland.

• Yeah im from Australia but i Know he is Scotish because of the Scottish emblem on his Rugby Jersey-Steven Titley Cav Rd

• The actor is indeed playing Desmond with a moderately strong Scottish accent.

Removed from Episodes of Lost (Season 2)

Excised from "Orientation":

There is a continuity issue here: the gun that Sawyer, Michael, and Jin brought with them was last seen when Michael was shooting the shark in the previous episode. When it ran out of bullets, he threw it into the water. How did Sawyer get the gun back and where did he get more bullets?

This is inaccurate. In the episode "Adrift", Michael fires three times at the shark. There is no audible clue that he is out of bullets. He also does not throw the gun away, rather places it on the deck of the raft that he is floating on. While he is not seen picking it back up, he clearly could have given it back to Sawyer.

-LeFlyman 18:19, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Removed the following from the summary. "Desmond mentions that the craft he used to race around the world was a solar racer. SWAN (Solar Wind Anisotropies) instruments have something to do with solar storms and magnetic fields."

While the SWAN technology information is accurate, the actual circumstances surrounding Desmond's arrival on the island were not. Desmond stated he was in a 'solo race' around the world, not a solar racer. I would presume this would be along the lines of what Ellen_MacArthur did in 2004-2005. He stated his boat crashed into the island's reef. I added the specifics of what Desmond said (checked against Closed Captioning) to the summary. :Tenzai 04:11, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Screen Captures

• Why are these screen captures showing up in the episode summaries? Are they really contributing anything, except, perhaps, copyright violations? Baryonyx 21:46, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I think it's nice to have images so it breaks up the monotony of just pure text. Season 1 had images as well (3 out of 4 were publicity shots) and it just makes the article a bit more interesting. -- MacAddct1984 21:15, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I think they're fine to illustrate a particular point. Wikipedia allows for limited screenshots for just this purpose. See: Template:Film-screenshot LeFlyman 22:45, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

They're contributing an easily identifiable image which allows us to know what episode the user is talking about. Duh.

The buildings of the Hanso foundation

File:Narvik2.jpg

The norwegian town of Narvik on the top and a shot from the film.

Someone stuck this into the Orientation synopsis, which I've excised. It's interesting, but more appropriate to fan sites:

"The film also includes a shot of the Norwegian town Narvik. "

LeFlyman 03:40, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Just came across this article in a Norwegian newspaper. The buildings seen on the film reel is actually the city hall in the northern city of Narvik, Norway. Comparative pictures can be found in the article. It is also speculating that the man shown as the rich Danish entreprenour through the window is Ivar Normark, father of a manager of a Norwegian soccer team in the premier division.

The article (in Norwegian) http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/2005/10/07/445691.html

80.212.255.13 18:01, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

About major edits

Please, before you decide to do a major edit first consider whether or not this will help the article itself. Secondly have a discussion with the others before you do so. And of course, if anything like that is indeed decided then be careful to input all the useful data that were written before the edit. We won't need to edit the article again to include information that was lost during the major edit. In general, follow the Wikipedia guidlines on editing an article. Thank you Phoebus 00:32, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

If you find that excessive information is submitted to an article, it would be wise in order not to result in a lame edit war to discuss it before you remove it. Information that seems excessive to you may in fact be of some importance later. See Episodes of Lost (Season 1) as a rough guideline on what is considered excessive and what not. Thank you Phoebus 10:24, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia, Phoebus. Having your words edited are a fact of life here. (Kind of like how I refactored your section to its proper place chronologically.) I would suggest you may wish to review the frequently controversial "Be Bold" Policy. I should also note that while your additions to the episode descriptions have been interesting observations, they have tended to fall into the realm of what has been popularly referred to here as "cruft" -- and thus have been subject to removal. There's no requirement that every detail be recorded in the episode synopses -- 'cause then they wouldn't be synopses :) 06:41, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

And yet, some things that were added to the most recent "...and found" episode were edited out, reverting the article back to its original, and less specific, writer's text only. You can say these things were deemed "cruft" or unimportant to the plot by those on this site, and yet, having checked, the official Lost site included these same added details that someone has clearly decided to delete--apparently strictly for the ego of retaining their original text more than anything else. If the details were deemed important enough on the official site, they're probably significant ones that will have impact later.

Added writers for ep. 7 and 8. Source: http://lost-forum.com/showthread.php?t=19554 . It was a newsletter from http://www.oceanic-air.com, an official site. --The monkeyhate 12:58, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

But where are you getting the flashback information for episodes 8 and 9? Until there is an authoritative source on that, I will continue to remove it from the article. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:35, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

What Walt says in reverse

Most people seem to be claiming that Walt's backwards-speech says "Don't press the button. The button's bad." But it sounds to me a lot more like "Pressed the button. Don't, button's bad." The former is obviously more concrete, but, then, Lost has never been known for solid directives. Anyone have any thoughts? I've added what I heard as a possibility. There's a reference on About.com for now. Bitt 19:21, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

The actor who plays Walt, Malcolm David Kelley appeared on the Jimmy Kimmel Live on September 27, just after the episode aired, and Kimmel asked him what he whispered. Malcolm said it was "Don't (press) the button." He stated "push" rather than "press" but I think we can forgive that. Since then, however, the audio clips seem to sound more like what you claim. See this discussion on The Fusalage on this very topic. LeFlyman 23:10, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

This is why I originally had the line saying "Walt speaks incoherently". First, one cannot really determine from the show itself what Walt said. Instead, it must be done outside of the show, which is fairly crufty. Second, as long as there is a debate about what Walt said, I don't think we should have EITHER interpretation up there, since both are speculative. Baryonyx 09:29, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Don't forget that Walt tells Locke just before they leave on the raft "Locke! Don't open it! (the hatch)" which would support the "dont push the button" camp. Personally, if it was me I'd keep pushing in just case it was a self destruct for the building. With the building intact they have power, fresh water, security and heat.

I read that Walt was reading a commic book before the plane crashed. Is it possible Walt has created/conjured this entire island and "the others" on it ala the little girl in Taken? One of the pictures in the comic book is what appears to be a island on top of a huge dome. We know that what ever he sees on paper can come to life in reality. (bird, bear and seriously injured man) If they were smart they'd start showing him drawings of rescue helicopters.

• That was Hurley reading the comic book. Walt found it after the crash. As far as "support" of one interpretation of Walt said, Walt may have been telling Locke not to open the hatch simply because they shouldn't be down there. Everything was just fine until they showed up. Walt may have been saying "Don't enter it" because entering it means that they would be stuck pushing the button... increasing the chance that someone wouldn't. Going from "Don't enter" we could also say Walt said "Push the button, no button's bad!" as a second warning, like "You ignored me once. Don't do it again!" And regardless, what Walt actually said was "dabsinottub***nottubehthsup****" (stars included for the iffy sections). If anything should be included on the summary, it's that. Since this is incoherent (even gibberish), "Walt speaks incoherently" sounds better and better. Baryonyx 03:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Can we at least drop in a clip to the audio played backwards? StilgarISCA 8:38, 18 October 2005 (EST)

I found a link to it... what Walt says, but I'm not sure of rules and regulations about posting, I'm very new here... so feel free to edit/delete my input -PigManDan(not a fully-fledged Wikipedia user 01:13, 20 October 2005 (UK Time)

It is clear in the clip that Walt says in reverse "Press the button, no button's bad" and it's directly related to what Jack's supposed to do in the Hatch. There's no controversy, there's nothing "superfluous". It is a fact. Why not include it? Phoebus 21:14, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Because it is not a "fact"; it's your interpretation of what the reverse speech sounds like. As I noted above, Malcom David Kelley himself said that it was, "Don't push..." so the exact meaning is purely speculative. Some have suggested that the speech isn't merely reversed, but spliced in the middle, so that the "don't" was moved to be where people are hearing "no", ala "Press the button don't button is bad" In any case, the process of reversing the speech is outside the context of what's on the show itself-- it becomes Original Research, because it is not information gathered from a reliable source. LeFlyman 21:56, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

So the fact is Walt saying "badsnottubonnottubehtsserp", which would be considered superfluous, while saying that in reverse is Original Research? Are you serious? Not that I'm in the mood of arguing whether or not this becomes Original Research, but you really need to reconsider what Lost actually is. It is not a science class, it is not real history, it is not about epistimology. It is a TV show, everything that is included in the recaps IS Original Research. We, wikipedians, see the show and write what we see. Don't you agree on that? I understand your wikipedian thoughts on this, on how Wikipedia should be, but it would be better to think outside the box for once. I, for that matter, am not "suggesting" anything. Let other fans suggest whatever they want. I'm telling you that Walt DOES say that, in the way that requires almost none to minimal amount of work to hear for yourself. I have no problem, nor will I ever have one, if this fact is not included in the main body of the recap, but at least it should be noted in a trivia section. Phoebus 00:42, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Again, it is entirely speculative what exactly Walt says, because— as Baryonyx rightly points out above— what the viewer/listener hears when watching the episode is gibberish. It doesn't matter that one can reverse it and come up with something that sounds like words, the specific meaning is made intentionally unclear in the production. Further, whatever it is Walt may be saying has no impact on the story thus far, unless Shannon has some super-hearing ability to understand gibberish. I suggest that like the muffled radio signal Boone hears in the Beechcraft, Walt's whispers are designed to be water-cooler discussion topics for viewers, while having no actual importance to the plot. If, in a later episode, she says something like, "Hey guys, like earlier, I saw Walt's dripping ghost out in the jungle and he kinda told me that pushing the button is bad..." then we can add it in. The most that should be included now, as you suggest, is a Trivia note that Walt's whispers are apparently "reversed speech", and that on the talk show Jimmy Kimmel Live, Malcolm David Kelley disclosed that what he said was, "Don't push the button." Beyond that, it is unsourced speculation. LeFlyman 01:25, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

OK, we agree on that trivial note but what you said, that what the viewer hears gibberish, I feel that depends on each one's ability to decode the information he's given. Just like there are other scenes in the show where there is a VISUAL hint, eg. the dharma logo on the shark's tail or Walt's picture on the milk carton, just because it is immediately decoded by you it has to be included. But what if one of those visual hints was given throughg a mirror image? That would need us to take the image in the mirror, reverse it and see what really is there, right? So, entirely speculatively now (as I'm arguing for the sake of future visual and audio hints), would eg. a reversed sentence that reveals something about the plot viewed through a mirror, be considered "incoherent" or not as it requires us to take that image and apply a mirror effect? Thanks, Phoebus 08:20, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Why don't you simply insert a footnote, stating that what Walt says is actually reverse audio and subject to considerable debate. The link to what Walt says should also go there, for I think many people will enjoy listening to it for themselves (at least I did). Maybe you could present two or three of the most common interpretations (including perhaps the "press the button don't button's bad" variant, which I find the most interesting). I'd do it myself, but I'm new here and I don't know how to do it properly... Thanks, Andy (I don't have a user account yet)

Character Deaths

Posted at Ain't It Cool News, it has been reported that Shannon will not survive her November 9th flashback episode. [1]. JurgenHadley 01:41, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

While AICN is an entertaining Web site, is not a "Verifiable" source (i.e. anonymous/pseudonym postings don't count.) Spoilers and speculation (even if true) derived from such sites shouldn't become the basis of Wikipedia articles-- particularly as they refer to future events. Furthermore, revealing unofficial descriptions for episodes yet to be broadcast is not only inappropriate, but "jumping the gun" on something that may or may not occur. Case in point: during the previous season, it was leaked that the final episode would include a POV from the dog, Vincent's perspective. One of the creator of the show, Damon Lindelof revealed that the producers were so displeased by the leak that they took out the scene:

...Any chance of an episode from Vincent the dog's eyes?

Damon: We originally had plans to reveal sort of a major piece of island mythology doing just that, but it leaked, and I was so upset about it that we changed paths and decided not to do it. There are certain things that can leak out that don't bother me that much, but other things when you see them on the Internet and people are already responding to them, you sort of change your mind about it...[2]

So while it may be fun to have the info up that so-and-so character gets killed off-- it's not encyclopedic. Save such things for fan sites. —LeFlyman 08:00, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Duly noted, I posted it in discussion instead of the article just to see what other opinions about the possible leak were. I thought that was the difference between the discussion page and the regular page, but in the future I will not do that. In any case, the show's previews itself do spell out that one of the cast members will likely be killed off, or at least "lost forever" in their words. I guess that could be up to interpretation, since Locke had even said he was lost once, so "lost forever" could just mean a state of mind. 68.34.76.34 23:00, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

For on-going Wikipedia projects like television episode summaries, it's probably safest to stick to what's already been shown, rather than what others say may be shown; total spoilers (for things never broadcast before) are best left to spoiler sites :) LeFlyman 18:57, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

The news of Shaoonon's death is everywhere. I would be very suprised if it isn't Shannon who dies, but then again, Lost has suprised us before... --The monkeyhate 09:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Watch Closely... under "...And Found"

Oh boy, this tidbit is definitely out of place, but I'm too intrigued to remove it. It would be worthwhile if it commented on what actually does occur when we're supposed to "watch closely." Frag

Now why would it be 'out of place' when something did, in fact, occur? A.S

What I understood that line to mean was that if readers had seen the previous episode when Sun buried the bottle, she would have been wearing the ring while in the process of burying it, and would no longer be wearing it (as it fell off) after she was done. I don't know if that's true, but it should probably be mentioned in the summary of the episode where she lost it.--FearTheFrail 03:37, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Not to spoil anything, but the teenager holding the bear with the others (the person who added this presumes it to be Walt) is actually white. There weren't any tanned or African people with the others. --Ultrasound 09:55, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I thought it was fairly obvious that the "other" with the teddy bear was meant to be Alex Rousseau, Danielle's missing son. I didn't add this to the article since it's speculation, but it's the simplest answer. 64.12.116.5 14:44, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Alex is Rousseau's daughter and would be about 16 1/2 years old now. The person carrying the teddy bear was too small to be a teenager.Arjay 20:18, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

i feel that the boy holding the teddy bear was with the people in the tail section because if you look on the episode "the other 48 days" there is a younge boy with a ted who lost his mum he had a sister that has to be him.

Number of "Others"

Did anyone count the number of "others" in ". . . And Found." I unfortunately forgot to do so and I did not TiVo or record the show. I suspect the number matches one of the sequences.

I counted 13, but it seems some of them walk by twice.

I think it was 8, like in the sequence. Also, the date that Kate and Tom made the recording in that time capsul thing was August 15th, 1989. August=8th month, it was on the 15th, and that was 16 years ago. That's probably just something the writers put in for a tease.

Radio

Also, did anyone see anything related to the "tailies" having a radio and what that was about? I heard about this but must have missed that part of the show. Thanks to anyone who can fill me in. It's not included in the episode summary.

I seem to recall sometime earlier that Sawyer did a radio transmission, and said "We're the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815", and they received a message back saying "We're the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815". This was assumed to be feedback (among many explanations), but it could be that the tail section survivors were responding back, saying that "We're the survivors of flight 815". Tejastheory 04:20, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

The above is true, except it was Boone who made the transmission while he was investigating the Beechcraft.Arjay 17:04, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

To answer the original question, when the group were getting ready to set out across the island, Michael and Sawyer noticed that the tail group had a small two-way radio. When they asked whether anybody had tried to use it all they got was sarcasm from Ana-Lucia. Ahkond 14:15, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

205 - "...And Found" Trivialities

I found a couple of trivial clues that I think should be considered whether or not to be mentioned in the recap.

During Jin's interview, we see for a fraction of a second Jin's application. I suppose most is it's written in Korean BUT

• his name written in latin characters is Jin-Soon Kwan not Kwon as we all know
• his birthdate is 27/11/1973 (need confirmation if this is indeed a birthdate by someone who knows Korean)
• his email is jinsoo74@yahoo(.com?)

Maybe those should be added to Jin's profile...? Phoebus 12:40, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Jin's resume is a production mistake and should not be taken as canon. Javier Grillo-Marxuach (writer and supervising producer) responded to a fan's investigation and confirmed this was a production mistake on The Fuselage messageboard.Arjay 13:17, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

"Cosmos or "Collision", "Reunion Tour" or "What Kate did?

We have to get the titles straight. The list says that episode 8 is called "Cosmos" and episode 9 "Reunion Tour", but if you go down the page you find that episode 8 is called "Collision" and episode 9 "What Kate Did". We have to figure out what the real names are. /The monkeyhate

IMDB says that 8 is "Old Habits" and 9 is "Lone Wolf". IMDB is more authoritative than lost-media or TV.com, so I'm using that information. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:47, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

IMDB can be edited by any member. I think ABC has confirmed it to be "Collision" and "What Kate did". --The monkeyhate 21:18, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Users can only submit trivia and goof information, right? Guest appearance information cannot be edited by users, can it? --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 22:00, 1 November 2005 (UTC)