Talk:Eric Liddell

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Edit[edit]

Sorry, I didn't notice the notice saying not to edit until after I had edited.

But this is a temporary fix, and if the original turns out to be okay, it can replace my stub, with my blessing. Deb 19:59, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Race day[edit]

Liddell was a committed Christian and he refused to race on Sunday, with the consequence that he was forced to withdraw from the Men's 100 metres, his best event.

The race took place on July 7 1924, which I make out to be a Monday - what am I missing? Drutt 19:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It was the heat he refused to run, therefore eliminating him from the final. Per the NBC piece done on him. Black ngold29 19:15, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where did you get this information from? All sources I have checked unanimously state the race was held on a Sunday:

http://new.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=12909 http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland/asportingnation/article/0019/print.shtml http://www.calebresources.org/PDF_files/narrativesample.pdf

Je1985 (talk) 14:58, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, the previous poster is correct. The contest was held over two days, with the first round on a Sunday and the final race on a Monday. See Athletics at the 1924 Summer Olympics – Men's 100 metres. Drutt (talk) 15:57, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A heat is a qualification for the race, the Heat was held on a Sunday and he refused to run because of his beliefs. Since he didn't run the qualification, he could't run the race. StevenDP 9:43, 3 March 2011 (PST)

Eric Liddell - grave site[edit]

There seems to be some confusion about the site of Eric Liddell's grave. The graveyard where we buried him in the former Weihsien concentration camp is now covered by a block of shops. The memorial stone is now at the front of the hospital where he died.

There is a reference to his being interred/re-interred in the 'Mausoleum of the Martyrs' in Shijiazhuang in neighbouring Hebei Province. What is the original source of this information? This would be a Chinese memorial place. Who would have motivated this in those years of civil war?

The missionaries went back to China or stayed there after the war from 1945 to about 1951, so there was an opportunity for a re-interment. I was asked years ago whether he had been re-interred in Tianjin, but I had heard nothing of it. If that were the case, it would either be in the LMS graveyard, if they had one attached to their hospital or headquarters, or in the foreigners' cemetary. Hi people Does anybody know?? EM Horne (talk) 13:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese language[edit]

Does anyone have a source saying specifically whether Liddell spoke Chinese? I would assume that he did, given he lived there so long, but who knows—there have always been English bubbles there for mercenaries and expats, so I shouldn't assume too much. Anyway, I was just wondering because I was thinking of adding him to the silly list Chinese as a second language#Notable non-native speakers of Chinese. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 15:53, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He did speak Chinese according to his biography by Sally Magnusson, but he could also be considered a native seeing as how he spent the first five years of his life in China and he also died in China. Hudson Taylor, on the other hand, may be a good candidate for that list if he's not already on it. Taylor spent most of his life in China. Invmog (talk) 02:25, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

hi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.209.8.147 (talk) 18:51, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

---Sigh. There is no such thing as "speaking Chinese", just like there is no "speaking Indian"! A dialect is a variety of a language that is a characteristic of a particular group of the language's speakers. In China, you have different languages : Mandarin, Shanghainese, Cantonese, Hakka, etc. - jsd — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.38.247.133 (talk) 15:53, 25 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Pictures?[edit]

The two current pictures are great, however, because this man was an Olympic Gold-Medalist you'd think that there would be more pictures of him available for Wikipedia; I think another photo or two could add a great deal to this article. Invmog (talk) 02:39, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

1924 Olympic 400m was Olympic record not World record[edit]

Liddell's time of 47.6 on 11 July 1924 (final 1924 olympics) was an OR (previous record = 47.8, 11 July 1924 (semifinal 1924 olympics), Horatio Fitch), not WR as claimed (WR was 47.4, 27 May 1916). I've added a source and corrected. See http://www.olympic.org/en/content/Sports/All-Sports/Athletics/Track/All-Track-events/400mMen/ 87.114.112.26 (talk) 04:45, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mel Watman, a respected British athletics journalist, editor and historian summed it up in one of the supplements issued with "Athletics Today" magazine during 1992, giving detailed coverage of past Olympics: "Absurdly, it was ratified as a world record because, reasoned the IAAF, Ted Meredith's 47.4 was made over 440 yards and not 400 metres, ignoring the fact that 440y is actually 2.43m longer!" Absurd as it was, we can only report the official published decision while pointing out the incongruity. --Mabzilla (talk) 22:59, 21 April 2011 (UTC) Just noticed my error: 440y is 2.34m longer than 400m, not 2.43. --Mabzilla (talk) 13:49, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The edit I made using the word "oddly" to describe the ratification of Liddell's time as a world record was deleted as editorialising and OR because the attached citation was considered inadequate. I didn't use the quotation above from Mel Watman because I couldn't identify positively the source. However, he has since written the same thing in slightly different words in a later published book, so I've re-edited appropriately.--Mabzilla (talk) 15:45, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Liddell's time was considered the World Record for 4 years. Then the WR was ratified in 1928 based on Ted Meredith's time in the 440 yards. Personally, I think they should have left Liddell as the WR holder of the 400 meters and Meredith as the WR holder of the 440 yards. Tcmahfood (talk) 13:06, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"The Flying Scotsman"[edit]

Now, in the book "Eric Liddell, Something Greater than Gold", it says he got his nickname form an amazing leap he did on a dock in China (pg 98, 99)but here it says a locomotive, which one is it? StevenDP 9:56, 3 March 2011 (PST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by StevenDP (talk • contribs)

Poo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.178.249 (talk) 19:28, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Biblical quote[edit]

The sentence in the Olympics section, in which someone gives Liddell a note quoting the Bible, comes out of the movie. One might assume it is true but unless there is a citation, which there isn't, the sentence should be removed. Be vigilant. Be accurate. Scenes from movies are not acceptable sources.Catherinejarvis (talk) 19:06, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

religious views[edit]

This article makes a lot of references to Liddell's strongly held Christian beliefs and missionary activity, but although it suggests he belonged to the Kirk, it doesn't actually say what denomination his affiliation was with (or whether, as in many cases, he switched churches over the course of his life). In light of the emphasis on the significance of his Christian faith in his life, and given that there are countless Christian denominations encompassing a huge range of doctrines and approaches (plus, individuals' personal beliefs may be quite diverse even if they are followers of the same denomination or even the same specific church), I think it would be appropriate to specify Liddell's affiliation and briefly describe his beliefs (which, given his frequent high-publicity missionary activities, should not be too hard to find out) and other information that might be relevant (e.g., whether he was raised in a religious family, and if not, how he came to become such a dedicated Christian).

Anyone have any comments, other suggestions, etc. about this topic? Mia229 (talk) 07:56, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Eric Liddell was a devout Congregationalist. While living in Edinburgh during his university years, Eric Liddell attended Morningside Congregational Church. He was ordained a minister in the early 1930s at the Glasgow Theological Academy (now "The Scottish College), which was a Congregational theological seminary. Eric Liddell remained a Congregationalist throughout his life. That was his only denomination. However, he worked well with Christians across various denominations (both protestant and Catholic). There is a section of his book, the Disciplines of the Christian Life, where he says, "The natural outcome of faith and love should be unity. Christ means his disciples to be knit together in a single fellowship as harmonious as the unity of a healthy body. But alas! The organized Church is desperately ill. There is plenty of room for different types of services, methods of organization, and differences of opinion. It is not the will of Christ that there should be bitter rivalry and ill will among the different organizations. This is contrary to his Spirit; it is breaking his Body, which is the Church. It is not uniformity but unity that is part of the essential nature of the fellowship (Church). Beware of bigotry and spiritual pride. Beware of prejudice and narrowmindedness. Let truth and love, justice and mercy mingle so that the Sppirit of truth and love ma lead you. Beware of broadmindedness that has no solid foundation for its opinions and outlook. A guiding attitude: In things essential - unity. In things doubtful - liberty. In all things - charity. Tcmahfood (talk) 13:17, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Vs. Abrahams[edit]

The statement that their race in Paris was their second meeting is incorrect. It was their only meeting. The editor must have watched Chariots of Fire which created a fictional first meeting for dramatic purposes. In fact, Abrahams did not run what is portrayed as their first race. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.155.48.112 (talk) 02:35, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Liddell and Abrahams had met in a previous race, not, as portrayed in the film, a 100y final, but a 220y semi-final at the 1923 AAA Championships. I've added a reference for this.--Mabzilla (talk) 12:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese name is erroneous[edit]

The Chinese name used in this article is a contemporary transliteration using a methodology which did not exist while he was alive and would be a mouthful to a Chinese person. It's not a name he would have ever used, heard, or been applied to him in his lifetime. I cannot verify what name he used while in China, but the Chinese Wikipedia article says he has two Chinese names 李爱锐 and 李达 with no further information. They may or may not have been used by him. The name as it appears now should be removed until the correct name is verified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.236.50.210 (talk) 12:49, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Location born[edit]

A user keeps changing his birth place to British concession of Tianjin which reads strange and doesn't seem to be the norm on any articles. I've changed it back for the final time to Tianjin but figured I'd open up discussion here to see if anyone else has any comments. CUPIDICAE💕 22:24, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It appears Ericwearvoon has edit warred their preferred birth place in despite it being incorrect and unsupported by literally every source in the article. CUPIDICAE💕 22:37, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

sorry i added the source — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericwearvoon (talk • contribs) 22:38, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That isn't a reliable source, not to mention that reliable sources directly state Tianjin, so I suggest you revert yourself Ericwearvoon as I've already reported you at WP:ANEW and you're just egregiously violating WP:V and WP:3RR now. CUPIDICAE💕 22:46, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

relay races[edit]

a tag requested (since 2009!) a reference for the claim, made in the section dealing with differences between real life and the film, that Liddell also refused to run in the relays because that would require him to run on a Sunday. I have a copy of Sally Magnusson's biography, where she says, on page 42: "Eric had also declined to run in the Olympic 4 x 100 and the 4 x 400-metre relays, for which he had been selected; their heats, too, were to be run on a Sunday." which evidences that he refused to run and the reason why, but she has the rounds wrong. it was actually the relay finals that were on a Sunday, as evidenced here: Olympedia - Athletics Timetable 1924 Cottonshirt τ 04:59, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]