Talk:History of opium in China

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the History of opium in China article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

China Low‑importance

	China portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Pharmacology Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pharmacology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pharmacology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PharmacologyWikipedia:WikiProject PharmacologyTemplate:WikiProject Pharmacologypharmacology articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Neuroscience Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Neuroscience, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Neuroscience on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.NeuroscienceWikipedia:WikiProject NeuroscienceTemplate:WikiProject Neuroscienceneuroscience articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 22 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Phoenix 1620. Peer reviewers: Emmazjia, Kristen998, SisiShen.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:27, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New section Late19th/ Early 20th?[edit]

I have notes on the history late 19th and early 20th century which I will write up and add as a section unless someone else is planning it in the next few days. Briefly, I describe the "import substitution" in which imports were largely replaced by China's less expensive domestic production, the success of the late Qing anti-opium campaigns, and how the disintegration after 1911. ch (talk) 17:31, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds great CWH, thanks. I have some more material to add to the early period (ending with the Second Opium War), so the sections you suggest dovetail nicely with that. I also have a new map in the works showing 1908 domestic production, which I will add once you reach that era. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ ^♦talk 03:38, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Good -- I didn't want to duplicate anything that you planned. ch (talk) 04:15, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done, though I would like to come back and add a paragraph on the social uses of opium in the late Qing using McMahon, Zheng, and other references. I look forward to Philg88's new map to complement the handsome and informative graph at the head of the article.

Further thoughts: I added a paragraph to the lede to bring the coverage down through the first half of the 20th century. I wonder if the details in the second paragraph of the lede shouldn't be moved to the main body, and also if some of the text is supposed to be in the footnote. Since Philg88's intention was to break off from the Opium War articles, and we are filling out the later periods, should we consolidate the two sections on Opium War(1) and (2)? They seem to deal more with wars and foreign affairs than with History of Opium in China itself. ch (talk) 07:04, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks CWH, excellent work! A couple of comments on your comments:

I agree that something needs to be done with the second paragraph in the lede to shorten the whole thing. I will sort out once there is more flesh to the article.

I don't want to lose the separate First and Second Opium War section headings simply because it means the {{main}} template can no longer be used (i.e you can't have two per section). I have plans to expand both of these although not by a vast amount.

Footnote fixed.

Shiny new map to follow!

Best, ► Philg88 ◄ ^♦talk 09:16, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

THanks for the careful style edits (I made a few more). Also thanks for the explanation for the two Opium War sections. Another way to handle this would be inline links. In addition to the paragraph on social opium, I'd like to add a section on opium in the first half of the 20th century if you or anybody else doesn't already have plans for one. I have lecture notes I can use, so it wouldn't take too long. ch (talk) 16:13, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, the links can be handled inline, but since they match the section headings, {{main}} is apposite. Go ahead and add whatever sections you like, I and other editors can fit in around whatever you do. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ ^♦talk 16:34, 2 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still concerned, though not major way, that having two sections on the Opium Wars gets away from your original purpose of focusing on the internal history. It seems that the {{main}} template will work for two articles, as I think worked in another article: So it's probably possible if you want to do it. Cheers!ch (talk) 23:41, 13 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Question regarding measurements[edit]

Footnote B says " A chest of opium contained approximately 10 "catties", with each catty weighing 1.33 lb (600 g), giving a total of ~140 pounds (64 kg)."

I'm guessing someone is off by an order of magnitude, somewhere — I'm just not sure where. (10 1.33 lb kittens to a catty, perhaps? Nah... ) Mazoola (talk) 16:36, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well spotted, Should be 100. I will change it accordingly, thanks. Philg88 ^♦talk 16:48, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jonathan Marshall - Opium and the Politics of Gangsterism in Nationalist China, 1927-1945[edit]

Page 19

http://criticalasianstudies.org/assets/files/bcas/v08n03.pdf

Rajmaan (talk) 07:45, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And your point is? Philg88 ^♦talk 09:00, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'll edit the article now.Rajmaan (talk) 09:02, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

please add Dutch VOC[edit]

I'm searching information about the roll of the Dutch in the 17th and first half eighteenth century in the way they abused their roll as monopolist in opium trade to china to get half the country hooked, and on the other end I would like to see more information on how china broke the habit in the 20th century, thanks Maggy (talk) 13:19, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is a error in Early history.[edit]

This statement in the article wrong, which is "opium remained legal until the early Qing dynasty.[11]". The legalization use of opium remained legal after 1639, which is Ming dynasty. The King in Ming Dynasty 明崇祯 banned any form of tobacco.

In 1637, Emperor Chongzhen banned tobacco smoking and sales and subjected violators to the punishment of decapitation(Page 28)

Cite Page: https://books.google.com/books?id=H2g3DAAAQBAJ&pg=PR4&dq=https://books.google.com/books?isbn%3D1317167236&hl=zh-TW&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx9un1qeLWAhVLaFAKHWpQDBEQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=https%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fisbn%3D1317167236&f=false

Therefore, who is the person editing the History Page of Wiki? Does he even have a degree in History?

Opium is not tobacco, so banning "any form of tobacco" does not include opium. Also, the link you posted has this text in it (search for the word "tobacco"): "The banning of tobacco smoking encouraged millions of tobacco smokers to mix in increasing amount of opium, and resulted in a growing number of tobacco smokers and opium users." Diaozhadelaowai (talk) 02:14, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Volume Mismatch[edit]

The chart says in 1800, the volume of opium imported was 200 tonnes. The text says 4,500 chests, and elsewhere says a chest is 64kg. 4,500 chests at 64kg each is 288 tonnes, is it not? Diaozhadelaowai (talk) 02:00, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Too many measurement units?[edit]

The articles uses these metrics and terms: tonnes, chests, long tons, kg, t. Too much? Diaozhadelaowai (talk) 02:00, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Lifestyle Information[edit]

Addding additional information about the the lifestyle and usage of opium in the daily lives of citizens. Phoenix 1620 (talk) 09:42, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Added additional information under the first opium war, lifestyle and general history. Phoenix 1620 (talk) 16:34, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No source for imports?[edit]

The second paragraph of the article states "By 1858 annual imports had risen to 70,000 chests (4,480 long tons (4,550 t)), approximately equivalent to global production of opium for the decade surrounding the year 2000.[6]". The source given is for the global production of opium for the decade surrounding the year 2000, not the 1858 annual imports. Is there a source for this number? PhearOTD 15:13, 10 June 2021 (UTC)