Talk:List of lord lieutenants of Anglesey

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Requested move 27 September 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved, general consensus is that the JOBTITLES guideline applies here and is consistent with similar other articles (closed by non-admin page mover) BegbertBiggs (talk) 19:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]


– Per MOS:CAPS and MOS:JOBTITLES. I would've done all of this manually by myself, but I've noticed that these older offices can sometimes encounter more resistance to change. So out of an abundance of caution, I'm opening it up to a formal discussion. Woko Sapien (talk) 14:54, 27 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 15:20, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support clearly preferred by the MOS. estar8806 (talk) ★ 19:11, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, in general, because MOS:PEOPLETITLES says "Titles should be capitalized ... where the position/office is a globally unique title that is the subject itself, and the term is the actual title ... (not a description or rewording)". Thincat (talk) 19:28, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Thincat except none of these titles are being used here as subjects; they're all indirect objects following the preposition "of". Woko Sapien (talk) 15:27, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    So, the items listed in any "List of ..." article are not subjects but objects. Well, these days any opinion is as valid as any other one. Thincat (talk) 16:24, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, yes. It's why "Vice President" is capitalized in Vice President of the United States but in List of vice presidents of the United States it is not. Rreagan007 (talk) 16:02, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Thincat not my opinion, just the rules of grammar. Woko Sapien (talk) 17:31, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do you think "Lord High Admiral" is a descriptive phrase? It looks to me like a proper name. Thincat (talk) 17:52, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please see the discussion below. "Lord High Admiral" is not plural. These lists are about "Lord High Admirals", not "Lord High Admiral". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I should have written "Lord High Admirals". I see we have (as a redirect) List of New Yorkers. Should it be "List of new yorkers"? But I'm wasting your (and everyone else's) time for which I apologise. Thincat (talk) 18:54, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Lord High Admiral" is not a proper noun. "The Lord High Admiral" is. "New Yorker" is always a proper noun, because it describes a group of people. estar8806 (talk) ★ 19:02, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, MOS:JOBTITLES says not to capitalize the title if it is preceded by "the" – i.e. "a definite or indefinite article". See the examples "Richard Nixon was the president of the United States," "Theresa May was the prime minister of the United Kingdom", and "Louis XVI was the king of France when the French Revolution began," as contrasted with "Richard Nixon was President of the United States," "Theresa May became Prime Minister of the United Kingdom in 2016," and "Louis XVI became King of France and Navarre in 1774". —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:16, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"New Yorkers" is capitalized for a different reason. It involves a demonym, not a globally unique title. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:16, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Thincat job titles and demonyms have separate rules. For instance, "List of French kings" is correctly rendered. But "List of French Kings" and "List of french kings" are both incorrect. Woko Sapien (talk) 16:21, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Thincat "Lord High Admiral" = title, singular
"Lord high admirals" = description, plural Woko Sapien (talk) 06:32, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per MoS and previous consensus on this situation. This has been discussed extensively before. Rreagan007 (talk) 16:01, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support – obvious and extremely similar to other recent RMs. See, for example, List of presidents of the United States and its RM of 27 July 2019. These terms are not "the actual title", since the title is not plural. MOS:JOBTITLES says to use caps only when the title is "addressed as a title or position in and of itself, is not plural, is not preceded by a modifier ..." —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:53, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Iveagh Gardens (talk) 12:01, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, no objection to having some of them go to titles like "Lord Lieutenant of X" if there is no such article already that contains a good description of the position. But in the absence of specific identification of such cases, this proposal is an improvement. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:40, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Iveagh Gardens yeah, I'd have no problem "delisting" some of these article titles at a later point. The idea certainly has merit. Woko Sapien (talk) 07:09, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per Rreagan007 and BarrelProof. Gawaon (talk) 18:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support: This is Wikipedia style. It's taking a while to work through all these, but slowly Wikipedia is becoming consistent. SchreiberBike | ⌨  16:36, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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