Talk:Tropical cyclone naming/Archive 1

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Recent Changes

Noticed some recent changes and back and forth on this page. The WMO committee responsible for retiring names and changing naming conventions (and a lot of other more important things) does not meet until early spring, before the next hurricane season. Therefore, it is impossible for any of the names to have been changed yet. There is some talk they might consider adding a few names to the North Atlantic list to try to avoid going into the Greek alphabet again. Until any of this happens, it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. Peyna 13:42, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism is quite a harsh word for someone trying to update the list of names or mentioning names that will be retired. unsigned comment from 152.163.100.70

"mentioning names that will be retired" - There is no guarantee that any name will be retired, until they are retired it is speculation, and Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Peyna 14:02, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

FYI...many of the edits from 152.163.100.70 (talk · contribs) consist of vandalism which has been going on for over a year. See the history page for Collier Services as an example. This user (or these users) is a notorious troll who has posted from many, many IP addresses and registered accounts (accounts that have been permanently banned as vandal accounts) including but certainly not limited to, or have similar posting styles but may not be the same person/people:

--Viriditas 10:17, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, many of those (particularly the 152.163 block) are AOL IPs. --Golbez 15:34, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Any way to make an article editable only by registered users for a period of time, or is a complete protect the only option? Peyna 17:29, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

At present no "semi-protect" option exists. --Golbez 22:04, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

That would be a wonderful solution for all of Wikipedia tropical cyclone articles! Hurricanehink 20:52, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

From what I've seen, their is a dispute between whether the 2011 should be added or not. Until it stops, their is nothing we can do. Locking the page would make it so that that only that user can edit, and the purpose of this site is to allow all users to edit. However, the owners of Wikipedia should explore blocking certain users and IP adresses from editing pages. EddieSegoura 22:15, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

And, from what I've seen, the "dispute" is between you and your sockpuppets. --Viriditas 06:14, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Please stop putting My name on this list. I only have this name and I never logged in as Dvirgueza or Pewyyy. How would You feel if someone called You names like that?

Your name is on that list because it is associated with those accounts, many of whom have posted to this page while you claim they are "separate" people. --Viriditas 06:54, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't belive You, I only created one account. I never heard of Dvirgueza, Pewyyy, or all those other names and numbers I'm listed with! EddieSegoura 07:04, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

On this talk page, you have commented as 152.163.100.70, 64.12.116.70 and EddieSegoura, have you not? --Viriditas 07:16, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, the only IP address I've used is the second IP Address to point out the controversy on the 2011 season, as below. The first one is an AOL IP address. It's a generic IP address and that IP address can refer to any AOL user. I took My name off the list because I thought You were accused Me of creating all those accounts. That is the only IP Address address I used. All the other names You listed are names that were created by someone I don't know. Those, Verditas, are the facts.

Eddie, you originally posted as 69.112.54.11 (talk · contribs) on the main page, remember? I asked you to register on your talk page and you created your current account, however, you are still posting as 69.112.54.11, 64.12.116.70, 24.105.138.40 and others. Are you forgetting to login? Contrary to what you claim, it looks like you also edited as 152.163.100.70 [1], engaging in the same kind of behavior (changing comments of other editors and using the same uppercase and spelling mistakes). Strangely enough, you made the same spelling mistake as 152.163.100.70 did two hours later on your own talk page (Vandalisim) [2], pretty much proving it was you. As for the other IP addresses engaged in reversions on the main page, they all appear to be one user, namely you. Furthermore, it looks like you recently created the Third Rail (talk · contribs) account to duplicate a "keep" vote made by EddieSegora on a recent AfD vote. IIRC, the other accounts were also accused of doing this and/or changing comments and introducing spelling mistakes, particularly Pewyyy, Dvirgueza, 234567292, and 01574871. In conclusion, you appear to have contradicted yourself, as you have admitted to posting under other IP addresses on Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/EddieSegoura as well as User talk:EddieSegoura. --Viriditas 09:16, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Viriditas, yes I did experment with editing this page under 64.112.54.11 (talk · contribs). I created the new account and I do forget to log in sometimes. I share this computer with people who know about this site, so I asked them to make accounts also to avoid IP address conflicts. However, You put up a whole lost if names and claim that I am associated with all of them. The other IP address I used was 64.12.116.70 (talk · contribs) when I pointed out the 2011 season. 152.163.100.70 (talk · contribs) is an AOL IP address that can be used by any signed on user, I might have used that address back them to fix My talk page, but I stopped editing on AOL since a lot of vandalisim comes from these IPs. That's the only edit from that address. All the other names/IP Addresses belong to someone else.

But, Eddie, there is also 24.105.138.40 (talk · contribs). And what about Third Rail (talk · contribs)? I'll make you a deal: I'll remove the list if you promise to try and login and avoid using other accounts to vote or wage edit wars on this and other pages. You also need to be more careful when you edit. To most Wikipedians, it appears that you are vandalizing AfD pages [3], however I can imagine a situation where this is due to user or server error. If you agree to these things, I'll take the list down. --Viriditas 10:12, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

User:64.112.54.11 quoted by Eddie above should be User:69.112.54.11. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 10:03, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I'll try to log on in the future. I can't get credit for each page I create or edit under an IP Address, but don't be quick to assume I posted without emailing Me why You think I trolling or spying on You.

I forgive You, Viriditas. If you suspect Me being linked to another person/IP address, email me first and we can discuss it privately.

Thanks, Eddie, but I prefer open records. --Viriditas 07:12, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Eddie, I've restored the comments. The sock puppets haven't disappeared and at least one was created after you partially agreed. You have to agree to stop creating sock puppets for AfD votes as well. --Viriditas 07:50, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Update: The issue regarding Me as a "troll" or"sock" has been resolved and My name should no longer be included in that list. Thank You -- Eddie 11:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

"Christian"-based names?

Why are they all supposedly "Christian"-based names?---Soomaali

Because the areas impacted by storms with those have a mostly Christian heritage. North America, the Philippines, Australia. Other areas do not - the western Pacific hardly has "Christian" names, nor does Hawaii. Can you clarify your question? --Golbez 14:41, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

Omar is listed and that is Muslim--220.238.238.21 08:15, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Japanese Typhoon Numbers

The Japanese press doesn't use names, only numbers (for example Khanun is known as "typhoon 15). Could a conversion table be included?

That doesn't help on this article; the list begins at a different place every year. It just became that Khanun was the 15th name used this year. The better place to find that out is at 2005 Pacific typhoon season. --Golbez 08:17, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Katrina/Rita

Why the leap (alphabetically) between Hurricane Katrina and Rita?

There were hurricanes in between them which were named and caused less damage, some of them probably never hitting land. See Lists_of_tropical_cyclone_names#North_Atlantic and you will find Lee, Maria, Nate, Ophelia and Phillippe. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:06, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Specifically, Lee was a fishspinner; Maria hit Iceland as a strong extratropical storm; Nate brushed Bermuda; Ophelia sat off the Florida and North Carolina coasts for a couple of days; and Philippe was another fishspinner. --Golbez 18:00, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Omar is listed and that is Muslim--220.238.238.21 08:15, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Retirement of Greek letters?

Okay, so what should happen if a Hurricane Alpha or Hurricane Beta causes a lot of damage, enough to warrant retirement? Considering we are now out of names after Hurricane Wilma, this is entirely possible. Might the NHC request that the WMO add a "short list" of X/Y/Z names, alternating every other year? This could even be the same six names as the Pacific, but in opposite years, because each letter name has opposite genders in the same year, and because high activity in one basin means low in the other (so both will not be used near each other). –radiojon 05:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

They'll use the Greek letters, and if it is bad enough to warrant retirement, they'll retire it. There are 24 letters in the Greek alphabet. Given the rarity of ever having to use them, let alone retire them, it is unlikely that there will be a problem with running out anytime within the next few hundred years. Peyna 00:12, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

This probably does not exclude it from the other basin (ie: Alpha is retired in Atlantic but not EPac) but I'm not sure. Hilda, Dora, and Celia are on the EPac lists despite being retired in the Atlantic. Miss Michelle | Talk to Michelle 22:53, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Unused letters

All letters of the alphabet are used except Q, U, X, Y and Z.

Why is this? And should the reason why be explained in the article?

- Jord 04:39, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Because there are few names that begin with those letters. Retire a few and you soon start to run out of logical ones. --Golbez 04:50, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

There aren't an incredible amount of easily usable/pronouncable names that begin with those letters. It's pretty self-evident, but if enough people can't figure it out on their own it might be worth mentioning. Peyna 04:51, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah this makes sense and I assumed as much but I didn't know whether or not it might have been due to a more complicated reason, i.e. l's and o's aren't used in alphanumeric identifies so as to not confuse them with 1's and 0's. - Jord 05:00, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

One reason for the 5 unused letters was that they based their list on the 1933 season and it's then record of 21 storms. It is possible (but no bets on how probable) the either a few more letters will be added after this record season. Donovan Ravenhull 12:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

"The use of 21 names was established in reference to the 1933 Atlantic hurricane season which had been the record holder for the most storms in the region." Is there anything to back this up other than speculation? It could be coincidence that that year had just as many letters as there are reasonably usable letters given common first names. For instance, the Eastern Nothern Pacific has 24 names available (all but Q and U). I do however, find a lot of places stating that the reason Q, U, X, Y and Z are left is for the reason I mention above. Provide some evidence of a reasonable authority stating that the 1933 season is the reason for having 21 names or I'll remove the note soon. Peyna 04:30, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

The Eastern Pacific went to 24 names sometime during the '80s when the list was threatened to become used up. During I think 1985, they added "X", "Y", and "Z" names midseason. Only "X" was used. Before this, they only used 21 names also. Bsd987 23:08, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Retired Names

Does anyone know what names are retired? That would be good to have here. --BDD 15:43, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

From the NHC: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/retirednames.shtml Peyna 19:05, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Predicting the Controversial 2011 Atlantic Hurricane Season

It looks like this page have been in an edit war over the past week. It seems like everytime someone tries to post the 2011 list, someone else reverts it to the older version. If the 2005 list is used up and we're using greek names now, why are so many users bothered by having the page show the 2011 list? 64.12.116.70 04:10, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Because there is no such list. Peyna 04:15, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

If names are used every 6 seasons, then there is. Yes, Peyna, the editors who put that list up try to predict the retired names, but the list can be corrected as time goes by. Besides, the people that insist the 2005 list remain intact are people that can't stand change. They're too used to seeing the 2005 list that they'll just revert it back as soon as a user changes it. That's exactly what has been happening in the past few days.

We only put facts here. People making up new names is not fact. Start your own website for that. --Golbez 05:25, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't see what the urgency is to put up the list for hurricanes in 2011. If everything goes as 64.12.116.70 predicts, then in a few months the lists will rotate and the officials will post the 2011 names. That'd be the time to update the article. Assuming, predicting, speculating on what the list might be isn't consistent with our guidelines. So long as we update the info before 2011 we're still on schedule. -Willmcw 05:50, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

There is no edit war. If you go here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2011 Atlantic hurricane season you will see that it was deleted because of consensus. Once the list of names is put out by the WMO then the article can be recreated. If it was put up now all the article would say is "The 2011 hurricane season will probably use those names not retired from the 2005 season. The full list will be released in the spring of 2006." CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 22:33, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, their hasn't been any changes today.

The 2011 list = the 2005 list minus retired names, which there are likely going to be six (Dennis, Emily, Katrina, Rita, Stan and Wilma). The only thing we don't know are the replacement names, so it will have to show up including the to-be-retired names, but with asterisks beside them as they are surely going to be retired. CrazyC83 03:44, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Is there a hurry? -Willmcw 04:31, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

The key words is likely; it is not a certainty. In fact, I would bet that not all of those names get retired. Wikipedia would not report that a certain person is likely to win an election, even if the polls showed an incredible margin prior to election day. Please see Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Peyna 20:52, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Spelling of the names.

Has anyone ever wondered why some of the names are spelled slightly different than usual (Henri instead of Henry, or Georges (with an 'S' added instead of the usual George), etc.? -- Eddie 04:07, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

That's how they spell those names in France. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:13, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Because they don't just use English names. Peyna 04:19, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

In the Atlantic basin, countries effected speak English, Spanish, and French. The names reflect this. (There's also some small Dutch territories in the region but I don't know if this is reflected in the naming) --Golbez 04:43, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Q,U,X,Y and Z names

Why not the next Atlantic hurricane season they use names with Q,U,X,Y and Z instead of the greek letters?

I´ve been cheking names with those letters and there are some

Q: Quinta, Queen, Quarry, Quirke, Quillen U: Uma, Ulises, Uriel, Urim, Uzai X: Xavier, Xena, Xina, Ximena, Xuxa, Xerxes Y: Yolanda, York, Yani, Yael, Yuridia, Yuri, Yvel Z: Zelda, Zeke, Zoe, Zeeb, Zara, Zared, Zair, Zion, Zibbi

The problem is keeping the male/female alternation. Next year, a P name is female and the R name is male. How can a Q name fit in between? In addition, what about retirement. You found a few names, but there have been 2 R names retired in history (Roxanne and I will assume Rita), and a possible S and a W. This shows that names far down the alphabet can be retired, leading to a potential problem. I like the usage of the 7th list, but in my perfect world, the 7th list would be a list of ambiguous gender human names (Avery, Brook, Casey, Devon). Hurricanehink 12:38, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Also, Xena, Xerxes, York, Yolanda, Zeke and Zelda are already used by the Pacific list. --Golbez 16:30, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, Xavier is the one that is used in the EPAC, but you are right. There aren't enough of those names for a full list. Hurricanehink 18:02, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

But the pacific list uses just two names each year for those letters. Also is Queen really a name? -- Eddie 03:33, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

What about Queen Latifah? — Michael J 04:33, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

You should check out the List of historic tropical cyclone names; few names you all come up with can match what was actually on the list in the 1950s. Thegreatdr 18:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Hurricane Ophelia

While I was looking at the Hurricane Ophelia page, it said there was $1.6 billion in damage, and there was one direst death. Is is possible Ophelia will be retired. Lionheart Omega 23:05, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Surely it is possible. Jdorje 20:08, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Todo

More consistent formatting of lists into tables. Right now some use real tables while some use lists within tables. Jdorje 20:17, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

For an article like this sources are extremely important. And right now there are none (just a few external links). — jdorje (talk) 21:52, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Why are sources important for "an article like this"? The information isn't contentious, untrustworthy or statement of someone else's opinion. Peyna 20:49, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

The reason for this is because how are we supposed to know if someone changes a list. For example, the Atlantic lists during the 1970's were very little known until one user came and added the full lists. We have no idea if they are true or not because (s)he did not add sources. Hurricanehink 22:08, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Renaming

Jdorje brought this up at the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tropical cyclones talk page. Perhaps this and the List of previous tropical cyclone names should be merged. This could then be split up by basin, like Naming of Atlantic hurricanes, which would give the history of naming. Having old names and current names are a little confusing, so one page with both, then split up, would make more sense in my book. In addition, this page is hardly a list of tropical cyclone names. If it is moved, a page like this could replace it, and act more as a list of tropical cyclone names. Hurricanehink 01:53, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

== re:last edit ==--Sonjaaa 04:29, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Re the last edit:

Why delink cyclone names?
Why remove explanation of Japanese naming?
Why the changes to cyclone names? E.g. surely the names of 2003/2004 season cyclones for the South-west Indian Ocean should already be known with reasonable accuracy by now?

Basically, I can't work out if it's a useful edit, or an anon being mischievous.... Any thoughts? -- All the best, Nickj (t) 03:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

It kinda looks like vandalism. I don't have factual knowledge of the names that were changed and added, so I can't say for sure. If it's a legitimate edit, it's possible the japan section was removed by accident. — jdorje (talk) 05:41, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

To justify my changes in the list I will give reasons why it is done pertaining to the questions listed above. Delinking cyclone names removes the need of creating seperate articles for cyclones who names haven't been used! The section of explanation of Japanese naming is already present in the list of previous TC names so why duplicate a section? Also if that section is place it is improper since no 'nickname' so to speak has been use recently for storms. And this is numbering - so does this article needed to add all cyclones that has been numbered - if so quite stupid really. With the changes in cyclone name especially of Southwest Indian Ocean, the 2003/2004 is already past - previous in other words so it is place in the List of previous tropical cyclone names. The new added names for the next season is present in the UK Met TC page so I have added it here so unless they're inaccurate the accusations are unfounded. O by the way the Australian region names are from the official BOM webpage which has a link at the end of the page so have a check. And yes vandalism - please define that word since the additions are ACCURATE - legitimate edit to put it as far as the meteorological services websites are concern. Please to those who questions the latest edit - DO SOME RESEARCH! - Ming, 3 April 2006

To avoid such problems, you should add a change message. Why should we redo the research if you've already done it? All you have to do is tell us the reasons for the change. — jdorje (talk) 22:46, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Re "Delinking cyclone names removes the need of creating seperate articles for cyclones who names haven't been used!" - redlinks don't hurt (you don't have to create an article or every cyclone), and two of the names were used. I've added those two back. And please, don't take people asking what's going on a personal insult, because I can assure you that its not. -- All the best, Nickj (t) 06:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Retire the Greek alphabet?

What happens if one year they run out of names and Hurricane Beta (or some other greek letter) becomes huge and needs to be retired. Does that mean in future years they will simply skip that Greek letter? or find some other name or letter to replace it in the Greek alphabet?

I don't think we t know. You'd have to ask the WMO, I think. --Golbez 04:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

The greek alphabet, IMO, was a poor decision to name storms either way. In your scenario, a greek storm could have been retired. The unnamed storm, if named operationally, would have been Vince, Vince would be Wilma, and then Alpha would be the most intense Atlantic hurricane, as well as extremely costly and deadly. Hurricanehink (talk) 13:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Is this true?

Gender alternates both between adjacent names in a list (a male name is followed by a female one and vice versa) and between initial names between lists (if one year's list starts with a female name, the next year's list begins with a male one and vice versa).

Is this true? or is is just an urban legend?. Storm05 13:36, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Were it untrue, it would not be an urban legend (I don't see any kind of "lesson" in there). A brief review of the current lists demonstrates this is true. Peyna 15:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Then why are there three consecutive female names in the 2011 list (Maria, Nate and Ophlelia) and 2007 list (Melissa, Noel and Olga) and 2008 list (Paloma, Rene and Sally)?. Storm05 17:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Err, Nate, Noel, and Rene are male names. Noel is also a girl's name, and Renee is a girl's name. Hurricanehink (talk) 17:06, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Renee and René are pronounced the same way (as is Reneé) but with only one e is always male. Male and female Noel are pronounced differently, male being one syllable, female being two. Nate ... I don't think anyone has ever thought Nate was a female name. Short for Natasha, I guess? *shrug* --Golbez 17:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Broken link? in Western North Pacific

Western North Pacific For the meaning of new names proposed by Hong Kong, refer to the middle part of this document.

The link to the document gives a 404 - anyone mind finding a replacement link? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.35.194.196 (talk) 03:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC).