Talk:Nguyen Thien Dao

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.

Composers

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Composers, a group of editors writing and developing biographical articles about composers of all eras and styles. The project discussion page is the place to talk about technical and editorial issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!ComposersWikipedia:WikiProject ComposersTemplate:WikiProject ComposersComposers articles

Classical music

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, copy edit, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that are not covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Classical musicWikipedia:WikiProject Classical musicTemplate:WikiProject Classical musicClassical music articles

France Low‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Vietnam

	Vietnam portal This article is part of WikiProject Vietnam, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.VietnamWikipedia:WikiProject VietnamTemplate:WikiProject VietnamVietnam articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that an image or photograph be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Career[edit]

This article places too much emphasis on his (secondary) career in Vietnam. He has been a composer in France long before he is known in Vietnam, according to the biography on his website.. DHN 00:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, you're right. His bio is really long; I just added some of the new things he's been doing. I think I created this article a long time ago and I usually make them short, so that others can fill in the details. But, as in this case, nobody did. Badagnani 00:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: withdrawn by proposer In ictu oculi (talk) 08:31, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nguyen-Thien Dao → Nguyễn Thiện Đạo – similar to current RM for Talk:Tôn-Thất Tiết but without the hyphen, another French-Vietnamese composer per EMI France LP cover with Nguyễn Thiện Đạo alongside Jacques Delécluse and Erato France LP cover Nguyễn Thiện Đạo, plus english advert for his new 2012 Hanoi Opera premiere “Định mệnh bất chợt” "Fate suddenly" oratorio by Nguyễn Thiện Đạo .... also per consistency with non-Asian composers like Dvořák and Janáček, other Asian Latin alphabets like Hagåtña and Māori and challenging circumflex accent on pâté ;) In ictu oculi (talk) 14:36, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, per The New York Times, Amazon, AllMusic, and Viet Nam News. Do French LP covers trump RS and personal preference as expressed on the subject's home page? Anyone who has read this IIO post will find the above nomination ironic. Kauffner (talk) 01:45, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@Kauffner, please see the definition of "reliable" in WP:RS, a source is only "reliable for the statement being made" - the NY Times which only shows Spanish, French and German accents is not WP:RS for Vietnamese orthography. This is discussed at length on p.12 of Dale Olsen's new book on Vietnamese Popular Music. Re the "personal preference" I would have said that too if I hadn't noticed that the website was actually subcontracted, the work of a French webdesigner, and not Nguyễn Thiện Đạo's own work. Unlike mathematician Talk:Ngô Bảo Châu I wouldn't expect a composer to do his own html. You'll note that the site www.nguyenthiendao.com also drops other diacritical marks, so cannot be taken as a "personal preference", wheras the Hanoi Opera poster and the typography of Nguyễn Thiện Đạo's EMI and Erato LPs do not have the limitations of html. For example under Biographie the website has "Elève de Messiaen, héritier de deux civilisations, il a écrit notamment KOSKOM pour grand orchestre (1971), les opéras MY-CHAU TRONG-THUY (Paris, 1978) .." and not Mỵ Châu Trọng Thuỷ as per his performances in Vietnam. So yes, definitely I would take the sources enabled to show his name properly, such as the EMI and Erato LPs, over any website, even one his management company paid for. His VIAF is still Nguyễn Thiện Đạo. It is actually his name, remember... lest this small point get forgotten. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:09, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So the subject has four "actual" names? I was impressed until I saw this. Kauffner (talk) 07:34, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.