Talk:Programmer

Relationship with software engineer

So I recently came across a very old complaint about the unclear distinctions between four articles. Software developer has been merged into this one, and I think systems architect is clear in that it's a design role that might not even require any programming. That just leaves the question of how to treat the distinction between programmer and software engineer.

This happens to be the job that I do, and to some degree I use them all as synonyms. My job title might be "senior software developer" or "senior software engineer" depending on the whims of the company I work for, but if someone on the subway or a census form is asking what I do, I usually say "programmer" because people are just confused by "developer" or "software developer". In professional contexts, in my experience some people use these terms more specifically, distinguishing a programmer as someone who doesn't need to be able to do much more than turn a detailed specification into code, whereas a developer should be able to handle design aspects and things like scalability and security - as should a software engineer, but there's more of a connotation that they have an engineering degree instead of being self-taught.

I thought a quick note in the intro to cross-reference the two articles might do the job, but Johnnie Bob reverted. They have rightly asked that this be supported by citations. They also said that it should be supported in the body of the article, though I think cross-references that simply help readers figure out they are reading the wrong article are an acceptable exception to that rule. I'd be fine with putting a "Terminology" section in Programmer and Software engineer (which I also changed) if we want to do this in the body.

Looking at various articles more carefully, I also think readers might benefit if we merged software engineer into programmer. Some material might also be offloaded into software engineering, and that article already to some degree talks about software engineers in Software engineering#Profession. Nearly everything that can be said about programmers can also be said about software engineers; we'd still want some verbiage explaining the terminology, and possibly say some stuff about software engineers that doesn't apply to other programmers.

So what is the difference, according to reliable sources? Probably there are more authoritative sources, but I'd summarize a hasty collection of the top Duck Duck Go results like this:

There is no industry-wide standard terminology, so "programmer" and "software engineer" might refer to the same role at difference companies. Most typically, someone with a job title of "programmer" or "software developer" might focus on implementing a detailed specification into computer code, fixing bugs, and performing code reviews. They might have a degree in computer science, an associate degree, or might be self-taught or attended a programming boot camp. Someone with a job title of "software engineer" is expected to understand software engineering principles, more advanced mathematics, and the scientific method, and may be required to have a degree in software engineering, computer engineering, or computer science. Some countries legally require an actual engineering degree to be called an engineer. Software engineers might have broader and higher-level responsibilities, like designing or "architecting" new programs, features, and platforms; managing the software development lifecycle including design, implementation, testing, and deployment; leading a team of programmers; communicating with business customers, programmers, and other engineers; considering system stability and quality; and exploring software development methodologies.

and maybe add this since we talked about "architecting" above, which just summarizes the linked article:

A systems architect is a related job title, which might involve producing technical designs while leaving the actual programming to others.

Thoughts about adding a Terminology section or merging or both? -- Beland (talk) 02:01, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, to get things rolling I added the suggested section. -- Beland (talk) 02:09, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

References

"Some" disagree that programming is a profession

This statement was tagged in the article since March 2011. It followed the statement "Programming is widely considered a profession". I am moving it here to preserve it, in case anyone wants to find some sources and restore it. (I didn't find any sources that said it isn't a profession.)

"(although some authorities disagree on the grounds that only careers with legal licensing requirements count as a profession)."

Lightbreather (talk) Lightbreather (talk) 19:38, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2023

Market changes in Nepal: According to data published on 2023, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports employment of developer-related jobs is expected to grow by 25% from 2021 to 2031 — in their words, “much faster than average.” The high demand for programmers and developers is driven by the increasing importance of technology in our lives and a skills gap in the job market. Probie33 (talk) 03:11, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Pinchme123 (talk) 03:56, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Python variable

Variable is process to making a value of any word. For eg- r = d

       Print("r") 

So when we run our code result is d because r value is d Thanks for watching

Hello, this is a talk page about the Wikipedia article, not a general forum for questions about programming. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 11:44, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Lede needs work

If a programmer is "person who creates computer programs" then Ada Lovelace was not one as she only wrote part of a program. Suggest: A programmer is one who authors code.

Second paragraph was added but not integrated with the first. Duplication.

Third paragraph opens a floodgate of which languages to include ... people has adding more over time. Just link to computer language.

Programming is a skill. Software developer and software engineer are titles ... or roles or something ... not really skills. I guess programmer could be a title too, but generally not. Consider the CEO saying: we need to hire a lawyer. The person hired would be a lawyer, but their title would not be "lawyer".

In summary, the lede needs a re-write. Stevebroshar (talk) 15:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)