Talk:Never Trump movement

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Title change[edit]

Someone boldly moved this article to a new title without discussion. If there is a good reason for moving the article, it should be done via a move request discussion so that consensus can be assessed.- Mr X 20:29, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 29 December 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus — Amakuru (talk) 15:27, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Stop Trump movement → NeverTrump movement – More WP:COMMON and WP:NATURAL term. Open to alternative "Never Trump movement" (the difference being a space). Picked the spaceless version for the RM template because that seems to be the more common orthography. juju (hajime! | waza) 05:32, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - The Stop Trump Movement is sometimes called Never Trump by a few sources, but the Stop Trump Movement was not just a hash tag or a casual way of referring to everyone who opposed Trump. It was a very specific effort involving a few prominent Republicans and a PAC. The scope of the article was specifically intended to be this very limited movement as seen in this version. Also see citations 2 through 5, and the content in the 'By political organizations' and 'Erickson meeting' sections. Unfortunately, several ambitious editors have tried to turn this article into a WP:COATRACK for any opposition to Trump whatsoever. Really, that should be a separate article and should consist of meaningful prose and not simply a laundry list of people who oppose him. The assertion that "Never Trump" is more common or natural alternative term lacks evidence, and is contradicted by the sources in the original version of the article.- Mr X 11:38, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"NeverTrump" was a term used by anti-Trump conservatives primarily, if not virtually exclusively. Your counterclaim about evidence is unfounded. juju (hajime! | waza) 02:49, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what that has to do with anything, and without sources to back up the assertion, it means nothing. In other words, simply because a phrase was used by anti-Trump conservatives does not make it relevant to the subject of this article which is precisely the Stop Trump Movement.- Mr X 17:04, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Where's the evidence that "Stop Trump" is more common? It was the phrase used by anti-Trump conservatives (the subject of this article, as you and others have made clear), and the common name of the movement. "Stop Trump" is simply a verbal phrase that went along with it (e.g. 'To stop Trump, the GOP will have to ..."); it was not the name. juju (hajime! | waza) 17:29, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article is not about a phrase. It's about a movement. The WP:COMMONNAME of the movement is the Stop Trump Movement.- Mr X 17:56, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The current version of the article is about the Never Trump movement. (I added a space between the words.) Never Trump is a far more notable movement. Someone can create another article on the transitory Stop Trump movement (if we actually need one). A true Never Trump article would start with National Review`s "Against Trump" issue (January 21), not the Erickson meeting in March. Pandas and people (talk) 23:29, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Do not edit the proposal. juju (hajime! | waza) 02:49, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - per MrX's stated reasoning. There is already a redirect from the 'Never Trump movement'. Aleccat 16:17, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to simply Never Trump, per WP:COMMONNAME. — JFG ^talk 22:38, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Never Trump is not the common name for the Stop Trump Movement. See evidence linked in my oppose statement above.- Mr X 17:56, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per MrX. -- Tavix ^(talk) 00:57, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Removal of Evan McMullin[edit]

Was the removal of Evan McMullin against consensus? I just wish to inquire before I possibly pre-emptively revert. SwineHerd (talk/contribs) 15:41, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@SwineHerd: Did he have a role in the Stop Trump movement? I don't recall that he did.- Mr X 16:03, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@MrX: Good point. He ran against Trump but never explicitly identified with the Stop Trump movement. SwineHerd (talk/contribs) 16:09, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

His campaign was run by heavy Never Trump members like Rick Wilson | MK17b | (talk) 15:05, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. The Stop Trump Movement was a very specific and fairly short-lived movement.- Mr X 15:18, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Most of his media coverage was that he was an alternative candidate, specifically one aimed at those involved in the "Never Trump" movement. ^Falling_Gravity 06:50, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Euphemism?[edit]

Trump was considered a longshot to win the nomination, but his large media profile gave him a chance to spread his message and appear in the Republican debates. By the end of 2015, Trump was leading the Republican field in national polls.

I think the use of "large media profile" is a euphemism for a type of propaganda. What Trump’s team did, as history now shows, is they contacted a talent agency and requested dozens of paid actors for an event they were putting together on June 16, 2015. That event, which we now know was totally manufactured and filled with paid actors, was where he announced his candidacy. This event manipulated the public by engaging in an ad populum effort, attempting to show Americans that there was popular support for Trump, when in fact there was none. This bandwagon fallacy was then broadcast on major television networks, and became a viral sensation in the conservative demographic, mostly among the 20% or so of people who are easily persuaded when they are told that something is popular and there is a FOMO. In other words, there was no large media profile. There was a manufactured event designed to psychologically persuade those who are easily persuaded that Trump was and should be the candidate. Viriditas (talk) 01:39, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Moderate?[edit]

As of typing this, the page states that Never Trumpers are "moderate conservative". While a lot of them,if not most are such, not all would be. A huge demographic of Never Trumpers are Mormon, which are a very significant Conservative voting bloc.Much of the republican electorate labels him moderate.Trump has even called himself an "abortion moderate" as he supports abortion in cases of rape and incest as well as having it as a state issue which are exceptions than a lot of republicans are against. Mitt Romney is the most popular example of a Never Trumper,and has only been considered a relatively moderate republican quite recently in his career. Almost all of the popular paleoconservatives, e.g. Pat Buchanan,David Duke, Alex Jones and Scott Lively have come to be anti-Trump because of what he's said in terms of Israel, abortion, and same sex marriage,the killing of Qassem Soleimani or what they perceive as a watering down on his anti-immigration rhetoric in his 2015-2016 campaign.My proposal is that "moderate conservative " gets replaced as just "conservative" and "republican". 2600:8801:FB13:6B00:CE9F:FED6:F584:5708 (talk) 04:37, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Trump Support in Congress[edit]

The article states, "Trump remained unsupported by 100 percent of Republican members of Congress in the general election."

This can't possibly be true. I distinctly remember several members of Congress endorsing Trump. Albeit some may have done so reluctantly, they did so nevertheless. Some even endorsed Trump emphatically, fervently, wholeheartedly, and enthusiastically. I feel like I am being gaslit here. Jeff Sessions, Mike Pompeo, Ryan Zinke, Tom Price, John Ratcliffe, and Mick Mulvaney are just a few names that come to mind (they all subsequently served in Trump's cabinet). Granted, before they were appointed to their respective positions in the Trump administration, I likely had no idea who they were previously. Unless, I am remembering incorrectly, or experiencing the Mandela effect, I do specifically remember sitting Senator Jeff Sessions actively campaigning with Donald Trump in 2016. How can this fact be reconciled with the excerpt from the article? Can someone please address this and edit the article accordingly? Thank you. 66.91.36.8 (talk) 04:09, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]