Template talk:Boroughs of Berlin

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I've modified the list to include the historic boroughs, divided into east and west, as they are very much alive and well in the minds of Berliners as geographic designations; the east and west designations may be of use as they were the districts during the division of Berlin. I also alphabetized all the listings. One thing I was thinking of was adding dates to new districts created after 1920, such as Hohenschönhausen (1986). I haven't done this yet, but it's an idea. ProhibitOnions 20:59, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

New Form

The old template is outdated since 17 years in terms of East/West division. The old template is outdated since 5 years after administration reform. It is a waste of space and factual wrong. Please support new standard.(Sashandre 12:42, 27 June 2006 (UTC)) all the best

It is not factually wrong, as the dates are clearly given. The articles are of historical interest as well as contemporary interest. Or would you argue that {{Roman provinces 120 AD}} is 1886 years "outdated"? User:Angr 12:53, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Historical interest yes. Contemporary no. Thats why {tl|Roman provinces 120 AD}} don´t exist on main page of Rome. Same on Berlin-page and every other city-page. Only political entities are mentioned here and neighbourhoods.(Sashandre 13:11, 27 June 2006 (UTC))

The thing is, we have to strike a balance between being up to date and provide links to articles that readers actually want to read. There is nothing to say about Charlottenburg-Wilmersdorf except that it was created by amalgamating Charlottenburg and Wilmersdorf. People will want to read Charlottenburg and they'll want to read Wilmersdorf, but no one will want to read Charlottenburg-Wilmersdorf. As a concession to the current status quo, we keep Charlottenburg-Wilmersdorf in the template anyway, in spite of its lack of content. Likewise with East Berlin and West Berlin: even 17 years later, these entities continue to have an incredible effect on the contemporary psyche. They're articles that readers will want to read. Readers will want to know which boroughs used to be in the east and which used to be in the west. The template is to make navigation among articles easier, not to show a snapshot of Berlin politics as it exists at this moment with no view of the past. And, as always, comparison with other cities is irrelevant. Other cities aren't Berlin. User:Angr 13:28, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I absolutely agree to the relevance of east/west but the political Boroughs have to be the foremost. How about the new template? (Sashandre 13:51, 27 June 2006 (UTC))

The political boroughs were already foremost in Prohibit Onions's version; they were at the very top. The new version is better, though I'd still like links to East Berlin and West Berlin. User:Angr 13:56, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I´m fine with this one now. The template has to be implemented in a new template-name and all Locality-Articles.(Sashandre 14:25, 27 June 2006 (UTC))

I don't see the problem with the "old" boroughs, or mentioning their division into east and west. Berlin, as it currently exists, came into being in 1920 with the creation of the historic boroughs. The current ones are admintrative regions, but the old ones are still very much cultural and neighborhood designations; my local government sends me a Wegweiser Friedrichshain, not "Friedrichshain-Kreuzberg"; in my previous work for the borough the emphasis was on the two separate parts of the borough and their respective charms and attractions, rather than creating a single identity. The division of Berlin was a unique event that affected the development of the boroughs, and for 45 of their 81 years they were in one radically different sector of Berlin or the other, the effects of which have yet to vanish. Furthermore, the East Berlin authorities created three new boroughs, strongly tied to the development of new Plattenbausiedlungen; it is possible that more might have been created, had, for example, the Sellheimbrücke development got underway.

It should be noted that in the early days, some of the older boroughs were themselves seen as administrative conveniences; Kreuzberg was regarded as a mishmash of the edges of several neighborhoods, and it took almost two years to be given a name. However, the boroughs had a very specific role in the development of Groß-Berlin, and their boundaries were chosen for the dividing lines of the four sectors. Although notable neighborhoods should be listed, they should be done so separately, not lumped together with the old boroughs, simply because they are geographic units of different magnitude. Areas that predate the division of Berlin (Moabit, Friedrichstadt) should not be listed under East or West, in part because those such as the Friedrichstadt ended up being divided between boroughs (and East and West Berlin).  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 14:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)