User talk:Narky Blert

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Archives[edit]

Siadn[edit]

Of course, you already knew everything I wrote at WP:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 February 28#Template:Wikipedia disambiguation. However, it may be attended by editors who know more about templates than they do about disambiguation. Whatever happens to {{Siadn}}, I just wanted to clarify that {{Disambiguation}} can't replace it (though {{Dn}} might). Certes (talk) 15:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Templates are such a good idea that it's important to have as many fine distinctions as possible. See Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 15#Template:R from alternative hyphenation and Template:R from alternative punctuation just below it. Who cares if they're improperly or inconsistently used, or require guesswork?
It's probably too late to add siadn to that discussion, and I don't intend to try. I mentioned it for completeness (assuming there are no other disambiguation templates no-one knows about).
In my experience, discussions about disambiguation (except at WT:DAB and WT:DPL) are always attended by editors who know nothing about the subject and won't see the problem. Narky Blert (talk) 16:26, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Citizenship[edit]

You right of course. It might work for England, Scotland and Wales, but would fall flat on its face in NI. (I thought continuing to reply at ANI was unproductive) 92.3.131.156 (talk) 03:02, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The whole topic is full of agenda-pushing, including historically, and not just in UK. The Balkans and the Near East can be as bad. Narky Blert (talk) 08:40, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Roud Folk Song Index songs has been nominated for deletion[edit]

Category:Roud Folk Song Index songs has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. (t · c) buidhe 00:51, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Goalkeeper[edit]

Not a problem; I wasn't even aware such a request had been made, I saw a link being fixed on one of my watchlisted pages and though "I bet there's loads" and turns out here was! GiantSnowman 12:58, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@GiantSnowman: Most readers will just pass straight over links like that; but readers who don't know a particular game will be best helped by the most specific bluelink we have. Narky Blert (talk) 13:03, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If there's any more soccer-related cases like this let me know, more than happy to help where I can. GiantSnowman 15:50, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We also have Penalty shootout and Referee, plus several where the primary topic isn't sporting: Cap, Captain, Manager, Wing, Left wing and Right wing. I fixed about 600 articles in September 2018 but plenty of later additions may have potential for improvement. Certes (talk) 16:43, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Five-eighth yielded two easy bad links and one impossible one. Narky Blert (talk) 17:47, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Help requested at WT:WikiProject Rugby union#Five-eighth. Narky Blert (talk) 17:56, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Back is already on my daily check. Plurals may be of interest: I just fixed Backs and Captains, but Wings may be interesting, (if only for Paul McCartney). Certes (talk) 18:13, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just the one good album IMAO. Narky Blert (talk) 18:48, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Plural Wings done: one McCartney and one aircrew brevet. Another is about eating turkey wings, but turkey wing leads elsewhere so I left it. Plural Managers also done: just the one football reference. Am I the only one who finds it hard to glean what sport an article is about without looking at its categories? Certes (talk) 23:53, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural close per WP:TRAINWRECK[edit]

Please note that the AFDs for various canal locks are all separate — as the nominator says, links are provided for convenience, but each one's nominated separately, so TRAINWRECK doesn't apply. Nyttend backup (talk) 15:49, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GENUKI[edit]

Is there a convincing reason to create a special "Futher reading" section for GENUKI in settlement articles, rather than use the "External links" section? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 09:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@John Maynard Friedman: It could go just as well in EL. Narky Blert (talk) 09:28, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Good because I guess you saw that I've already shot first and asked questions later. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 09:39, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As a multi-lingual Wikipedia[edit]

Good afternoon In case I got the name wrong this is a message for Narky Beart Nyttend backup (talk Is there any reason why the performance credits on German Wikipedia`s entry for Angelique Rockas https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Angelique_Rockas&action=edit&section=2 cannot be transferred to the English Wikipedia? Is there a possibility for you to do this ? There are production photographs on this artist`s page without any text? It is restricted to Wikipedians with over 500 edits. Thank you IP Address provided {195.191.67.225 (talk) 13:21, 27 March 2021 (UTC)}[reply]

Slightly messy (the first link I checked in the English article failed verification; but I've found a replacement) - I'll look into it. Narky Blert (talk) 13:32, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. There is also material on https://es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Angelique_Rockas&action=edit&section=2 I noticed you have some knowledge of Spanish. IP Address {195.191.67.225 (talk)} — Preceding undated comment added 14:03, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive[edit]

Hey y'all, the April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive begins at 00:01 UTC on April 1, 2021 and runs through 23:59 UTC on April 31, 2021. Points can be earned through reviewing articles on the AutoCheck report, reviewing articles listed at WP:MILHIST/ASSESS, reviewing MILHIST-tagged articles at WP:GAN or WP:FAC, and reviewing articles submitted at WP:MILHIST/ACR. Service awards and barnstars are given for set points thresholds, and the top three finishers will receive further awards. To participate, sign up at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_History/April 2021 Reviewing Drive#Participants and create a worklist at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/April 2021 Reviewing Drive/Worklists (examples are given). Further details can be found at the drive page. Questions can be asked at the drive talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:26, 31 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Claudia Pulchra[edit]

I just now realized, you own source supported my position that there was only one person of that name. Your timely and ill-conceived intervention has now caused me a tremendous headache. Avilich (talk) 18:25, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Avilich: You orphaned the DAB page. Narky Blert (talk) 21:31, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No, I deleted it because it was unnecessary, and now there's someone attempting to undo everything because of you. Your a misleading comments in the talk page were just enough to cause a general confusion. Avilich (talk) 21:56, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Avilich: You deleted it without taking it to WP:AFD. That's why three editors including myself have reverted you. Narky Blert (talk) 06:24, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Don't pretend to be in favor of a discussion: you refused to discuss the subject on the talk page after I encouraged you to, and your only contribution was a source which supported my position all along. The other two who reverted me were only doing so because they thought you had a valid position to begin with; they had no personal objections of their own either. This is nothing more than pointless obstruction. You're still free to offer more arguments in support ofyour position in the talk page: but you won't do that, will you?
With regards to your most recent restoration I shouldn't need to tell you that disambiguation pages are only supposed to list articles with the same title. Avilich (talk) 13:45, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Avilich: Not true. I expressly quoted WP:DABMENTION - "If a topic does not have an article of its own, but is mentioned within another article, then a link to that article may be included if it would provide value to the reader." I've seen valid DAB pages which contained no links at all matching the page title. Narky Blert (talk) 13:50, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
She is named Clodia, not Claudia Pulchra, and she does already have an article of her own, duh. Avilich (talk) 13:52, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Avilich: Clodia Quadrantaria was born Claudia. Narky Blert (talk) 14:04, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not "Claudia Pulchra". I ask you to check the sources I left in the talk page, and the source you yourself provided (DGRBM). Only the great-niece of Augustus was called Claudia Pulchra. Women in the ROman Republic did not have surnames. Avilich (talk) 14:05, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Avilich: Please read the introductory paragraphs of MOS:DAB and WP:DAB. Narky Blert (talk) 14:11, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There is already Claudia (disambiguation) and Claudia gens#Claudii Pulchri; any of these could be put as hatnotes on the article Claudia Pulchra. Why on earth does there need to be a Claudia Pulchra (disambiguation) when there is only one person of that name? Your own guidelines say that disambiguation pages are only for ambiguous search terms. A name borne by a single person is not ambiguous. Avilich (talk) 14:14, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Avilich: They aren't my guidelines, they're English Wikipedia's guidelines (which I had no part in shaping). Narky Blert (talk) 17:57, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How does this have anything to do with what I just said? They support what I have been doing. What do you even want after all? What is your specific grievance? What do you think should be done with the page instead, that cannot be done with the others I linked? Avilich (talk) 17:59, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Avilich (talk) 19:00, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hndis[edit]

This is not used for simple given names. Template:Human name disambiguation explains its scope, stating "A page that lists all people with the given name "Jayson" should use {{given name}}." You'll also periodically find hidden comments stating the same thing that somebody has added to name and dab pages. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:24, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Clarityfiend: Which is the page in question? It's appropriate for mononyms, see {{disambiguation}} and Category:Human name disambiguation pages.
As a sidenote, name pages invariably collect bad links, which can be difficult first to locate and then to fix. See e.g. User:Certes/Taxa linked to surnames (and its page history), User talk:Certes/Archive 5#More taxon authorities, User talk:Certes/misdirected links#Mononymic taxonomists, User:Certes/Surname links and User:Certes/misdirected links#Surnames. WP:BPAT hasn't really got round to name pages yet.Narky Blert (talk) 09:48, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's Bobo. I'm periodically going through Category:Human name disambiguation pages to reclassify single name pages, but have only gotten partway through the A's. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:13, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Clarityfiend: Bobo contains Bobo (singer) and Bobô (footballer, born 1985), both of which are mononymic hndis matches and neither of which is a given name. Should we open a discussion at WT:DAB? I trust that you will be monitoring all pages you reclassify from {{hndis}} to {{given name}} for new links?
As a follow-up to my sidenote, I came across a suspicious-looking link to Bergman next to a DABlink yesterday, and made a check. 4 of the 8 links-in were wrong. Narky Blert (talk) 06:59, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A discussion would be fine. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:15, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Clarityfiend: I'll give it a think, and post a draft opening statement here. If we can agree on a neutral form of wording, the discussion is more likely to be productive. Narky Blert (talk) 07:27, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There are a lot of bad links to surnames. They seem to be specially grandfathered into the base name, even though no sane person could believe that the surname is the primary topic for Schoenberg, Wills or Braun. Narky Blert and I have each fixed several thousand such links, my personal best being Zunz with 122 errors. Still, consensus can change: years were similarly above the law, but we eventually managed to shift AD 1 from its unjust occupancy of 1. Certes (talk) 11:08, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Songs written by Eddie Jobson has been nominated for deletion[edit]

Category:Songs written by Eddie Jobson has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Richhoncho (talk) 23:05, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Songs written by Noël Greig has been nominated for deletion[edit]

Category:Songs written by Noël Greig has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Richhoncho (talk) 23:12, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Songs written by Roy Butterfield has been nominated for deletion[edit]

Category:Songs written by Roy Butterfield has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Richhoncho (talk) 23:15, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Songs written by Palmer McAbee has been nominated for deletion[edit]

Category:Songs written by Palmer McAbee has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Richhoncho (talk) 09:51, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Old Sundanese (disambiguation)[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Old Sundanese (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

  • disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia page and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic);
  • disambiguates zero extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title; or
  • is an orphaned redirect with a title ending in "(disambiguation)" that does not target a disambiguation page or page that has a disambiguation-like function.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 12:44, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect wikipedia edits position[edit]

hello, I noticed that your userpage says that you are 70th in terms of number of edits on wikipedia, however this list puts you at 66th. Thank you for your contributions! DirkJandeGeer (talk) 11:01, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@DirkJandeGeer: I'm waiting until I get to #65 or am promoted to WP:Auspicious Looshpah before I update ;-) Narky Blert (talk) 11:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Review request[edit]

hey, can u review this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:V1T0 since last year he was featured serveral times in Croatian Billboard/Complex equivalent muzika.hr ( one article/interview with full focus on him ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Captainjackcactus (talk • contribs) 15:45, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Captainjackcactus: Sorry, I don't review draft articles - and I see that this one was reviewed and declined less than half an hour ago. I suggest you read and follow the advice which JavaHurricane, an experienced new page reviewer, gave you. Narky Blert (talk) 16:21, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

today[edit]

See my talk today, - it's rare that a person is pictured when a dream comes true, and that the picture is shown on the Main page on a meaningful day. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:54, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: When the Zorian Quartet made the premiere recording of Britten's 2nd Quartet in 1946, it ocupied an odd number of 78 sides. Rather than leave one side blank as was sometimes done, they recorded a filler; the only recording of Britten playing his viola. Narky Blert (talk) 14:38, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Name pages[edit]

Hi Narky Blert, do you know why people with the name Majorana are listed at what appears to be a spelling variant different from the most significant bearers of the name; members of the Majorana Calatabiano [it] family? (Ettore has a number of articles on WP named after him).

There's also a person named Maiorano listed there instead of the page for that name, even though it's acknowledged that the surnames might not be related. I didn't know where I should ask about this but you were last to edit the DAB and a dedicated user, thanks. 94.15.165.206 (talk) 23:27, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What I meant was, is there a reason Majoranas and a Maiorano are listed here instead of at Majorana (surname) and Maiorano respectively?. 94.15.165.206 (talk) 08:42, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good question. I have an answer, which convinces me at any rate.
The standard Italian alphabet does not include "j". The article Maiorana is about the surname as-such, and the spelling with "i" both seems to be the most common variant and is the one used in the source; so in this article about the name we should go with that. Although many of the notable bearers of the name have spelled it with "j", probably for historical reasons (if you don't know how Cholmondeley is pronounced, you'll never guess), it seems very likely that the origin of both variants is the plant. We have only the one article about a Maiorano, and it makes sense to me to cover that name in Maiorana even though the origin is probably different; that couldn't be explained on a DAB page or in a redirect.
I've added see-alsos to Maiorana; including that Italian article, which was an excellent find. It looks as if all relevant redirects are in place. Narky Blert (talk) 08:58, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

But people called Chumley aren't listed at Cholmondeley (surname) and Ferraris, Ferraras and Ferraros, for example, are all listed seperately. I feel having them all listed at Maiorana is unusual and cluttered. Speaking of which, here are all the redirects relating to these names (that I could find):
Maiorana (surname)
Maiorano (disambiguation)
Maiorano (surname)
Majorana (disambiguation)
Majorana (surname)
Talk:Maiorana (surname)
Talk:Majorana (surname)

I'm sure you're more familiar with WP:Name pages and WP:Disambiguation than I am, but wouldn't it be OK to list the person named Maiorano at the DAB? My understanding is to list people on DAB pages as long as there's no more than one, in which case a name page would have to be created. 94.15.165.206 (talk) 09:52, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

DAB pages can contain any number of people who share the same name; see e.g. Aaby and Aalst. They only need to be split out if there's something encyclopedic to be said about the name, or if there are so many that the DAB page is unwieldy. The only requirement is, that a DAB page which contains even one surname entry should be tagged (as those two are) to populate Category:Disambiguation pages with surname-holder lists.
I have no strong feeling as to whether or not Stefano Maiorano should be added to DAB page Maiorano. The general rule is, that people should only be listed on both the DAB page and the name page if they're often known by just their surname; see e.g. Newton. Narky Blert (talk) 10:15, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

On the Maiorana page, the yellow pages ref is not a WP:RS and the Hanks ref only has entries for Maiorana and Maiorano, where their relation is disputed.

What/where would you say would be the most proper way/place(s) to list each of these names?
Maiorana is good where it is? (can't be listed at Majorana because there's something encyclopedic to be said about it?)
Majorana (no sources for it and three notables; move to Majorana DAB or Majorana (surname)?)
Maiorano (mentioned in the Hanks ref; one notable; relation to Maiorana uncertain)

If this needs to be decided by more than two people then do you know how a discussion could be opened and where's suitable? Thanks. 94.15.165.206 (talk) 11:15, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think the current situation is pretty much OK - but if you'd like to open a fuller discussion, I'd suggest at WT:WikiProject Anthroponymy (and link to this one for the background). Narky Blert (talk) 12:09, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I will do that. 94.15.165.206 (talk) 12:49, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Narky Blert, I've waited a while but the project seems to be largely inactive these days. Is there somewhere else you could point me? Thank you. 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:B87B:EE6D:7D66:4C3B (talk) 13:07, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's a pity, because I felt sure that there would be the best place to ask. I suggest giving it another couple of days in the hope that someone does join in there; and if no-one does, asking for a WP:3O. Narky Blert (talk) 13:27, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Will do, thanks again. 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:C438:26B:68C7:8C92 (talk) 21:42, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Narky Blert, how would you describe the "disagreement" on the WP:3O page? I think what I wrote at WP:APO was maybe not clear enough.
Also, I hope the third party will not be influenced in any way by the distribution stats on the Maiorana page, because the yellow pages source they come from is not reliable. Thanks 19:37, 14 June 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:5D0C:846B:4179:28E5 (talk)

How about something like this? I've nowikied everything out, so as not to disrupt the formatting of my talk page. Feel free to adjust my suggested wording.
==Page naming - Maiorana and Majorana== Currently, [[Maiorana]] is a surname page and [[Majorana]] is a DAB page, which crosslink to each other in a technically-correct manner through the redirects {{-r|Majorana (disambiguation)}} and {{-r|Majorana (surname)}} respectively. I think that the primary spelling of the surname is Majorana, but {{u|Narky Blert}} thinks that the current position is satisfactory. We have discussed this issue at [[User talk:Narky Blert#Name pages]] without reaching agreement (or getting heated!), and our positions are set out there. My post at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anthroponymy#Help needed]] has attracted no response. So, here we are; I ask for a [[WP:3O]] to resolve the dispute.
Narky Blert (talk) 19:35, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've altered that and added it to WP:3O, but you might want to double-check it. I've included Maiorano and it's redirects but took out the parts saying "I think Majorana is the primary spelling" and that they're crosslinked in a technically-correct manner. Majorana is the name borne by the most prominent people but just from searching the Web it looks like the spellings with an "i" [1][2] are more common than those with a "j" [3][4]. My concern is more about listing them all together just because they're spelled similarly. And lastly, the crosslinks mostly point to redirects which I'm not sure is technically-correct. Thanks again 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:515C:E312:33DA:15A9 (talk) 00:37, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again, User:TransporterMan has since removed the disagreement from WP:3O without even looking into it. What's my next course of action? Would I be allowed to readdress it there again? Thanks 15:15, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Heigh-ho. The reason given was "insufficient talk page discussion". It looks like a discussion on the talk page of Maiorana or Majorana (cross-linked to the other) needs to be opened. Narky Blert (talk) 15:23, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Could you show me how you would write that please? Because the discussion's already been had here extensively. Sorry for how long this has lasted by the way but I honestly thought it could have been resolved the same day I asked. 17:00, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Copy your detailed argument from here, and link to all other discussions.
WP:NODEADLINE means that discussions are hardly ever resolved the same day. Narky Blert (talk) 17:49, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Did my best at Talk:Maiorana, could you put your opinion there also? Otherwise I don't think they'll add a third. Thanks 09:24, 29 June 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:18E4:4F36:8921:7E5 (talk)

Hi Narky Blert, I've been asked to re-start the discussion, this time at the talk page, with the two main opinions summarized there.
Could you restate your reasoning there as for why people with these different names are listed on that page instead of their own? Thank you. 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:2C0A:A5C2:4687:D229 (talk) 23:54, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rugby women[edit]

Several articles on female rugby union players have been created or expanded recently. I've grounded the usual Ospreys and Wasps (and retrained a couple of hookers) but this may be an area where you'd spot something I've missed. Certes (talk) 12:03, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A set of concerted WP:RMs, or perhaps better a WP:RFC, with the idea of pointing ambiguous plurals of common nouns to DAB pages instead of the singular WP:PTOPIC would not be unjustified. As you well know, Bees, Eagles, Hornets, Lions and Wolves (among others) are perennial sources of laughably bad links. I guess that the majority of readers typing those words into the searchbox are looking for a sports team not an animal. Buffalos, Bulls, Canaries and Giants, for example, which redirect to a, or are a, DAB page, are not a problem. Links to them get fixed within a few weeks if not days - rather than years. Narky Blert (talk) 22:26, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WT:REDIRECT might be the place to open such a discssion. Narky Blert (talk) 22:35, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
These would probably be redirects for discussion. The few past RfDs I can find have not gone our way, even when a famous band vies for the title:
However, consensus can change and it may be worth another try. Certes (talk) 11:09, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Changing the basename of a DAB page needs an RM; I've been procedurally thrown out of RFD for suggesting one there. Narky Blert (talk) 11:14, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, true: RfD could only retarget, which would leave the dab malplaced. Certes (talk) 11:16, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move at As above, so below (disambiguation)[edit]

Hello Narky Blert! There is a requested move at As above, so below (disambiguation), but I don't understand the rationale of this request (here). Could you take a look at it and explain why we should or should not do this? Thanks! ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 03:21, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Apaugasma: The RM looks like harmless busywork to me, but probably in line with the guidelines. There was a recent discussion at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation#Feedback needed with Pink and blue about the opposite concept (Caps at the basename, LC at the DAB) during which I remembered black and white (LC at the basename) and Black and White (caps at the DAB). So long as readers can easily get where they want to be (and bad links to WP:PTOPICs don't accumulate), I'm not too fussed. Narky Blert (talk) 07:01, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Edit notices templates[edit]

Do you want a link to the ones I found from our conversation from the last Tfd you started? --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 14:55, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@WikiCleanerMan: Thanks, that would be helpful. It should be easy enough (if repetitive) to sort out ones on DAB pages (bad) from ones on lists or list sections (good). (We could do with more of those - I question how much they actually deter editors from adding their family, friends and pets, but they can't hurt.) If you post or link to your list here, I'll move or copy it into a subpage. Narky Blert (talk) 15:28, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
After the last Tfd it is now 569. Here it is. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 15:44, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@WikiCleanerMan: Oooh, good search string, thanks! I'll have a go at that. No need for copying, I'm used to attacking that sort of list (see WP:BPAT).
Looking at your userpage - have you considered outing yourself as a WikiGnome? There's {{WikiGnome topicon}} (which looks uncommonly like A. muscaria). Narky Blert (talk) 16:11, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not really. Just doing my part in cleaning up Wikipedia. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:13, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@WikiCleanerMan: The longer I've spent on WP, the more I've realised that there are hosts of unseen specialists working away in the background doing exactly that.
If you ever have time to waste, there are some entertaining articles about WikiFauna. Some are elusive, and rightly so; I had the privilege of describing one of them. Narky Blert (talk) 16:38, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A stalker writes: Why do they write that out longhand rather than having a template like {{Dynamic list editnotice}} with standard wording? Certes (talk) 16:51, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If the wheel is well hidden, it may be easier to reinvent it. Narky Blert (talk) 17:00, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Let me know when you start a Tfd for these templates. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:25, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@WikiCleanerMan: First batch posted (and I've dropped a hint on the talk page of the admin who created them all). Filtering the search was really easy - I could ignore titles including "list" or a (name) qualifier, and DAB pages jumped out from the rest because I have "Preferences/Gadgets/Display links to disambiguation pages in orange" enabled. Narky Blert (talk) 14:53, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

June thanks[edit]

Thank you for improving articles in June, with some impressions of places, flowers and music for you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:51, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: In return, some Rossini and some Wolf (with its wonderful little waltz fragment). Narky Blert (talk) 21:06, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Cute, thank you! - In return, another related animal --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:24, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: But would the Wälsungen have approved?

"Oh Senta, you've broken your vow!
I cannot believe it - just how
Could you flout Daland's wish? -
Go and swim with the fish!
I'm a Dutchman if I'll wed you now!"

My ambition to summarise all Wagner's operas in limerick form may never be fulfilled. Narky Blert (talk) 21:43, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Which Wälsungen? Siegmund und Sieglinde saw only each other. "Mr. and Mrs. Wotan have an argument." (Anna Russell - in case you don't know) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:47, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Gerda Arendt: Anna Russell is brilliant.
I remember a BBC Radio 3 broadcast of the Ring (in the 70s or 80s?), in which each opera was introduced and its plot explained by - Alberich, Hunding, Mime and Hagen.
I've never been able to find the recording I once heard of "The Valkyries' Handicap", an excited horserace commentary ("and each maiden has a dead warrior slung over her saddle!"). Narky Blert (talk) 22:30, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Gerda Arendt: Do you know the Fauré/Messager "Souvenirs de Bayreuth"? I can only imagine that they were trying to get banned from visiting the Festspielhaus ever again. Narky Blert (talk) 14:48, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
no ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:51, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tokusatsu[edit]

Remember the vandal inserting random wikilinks in Tokusatsu sections a few years ago? I've stumbled across more of their handiwork in Special:Contributions/240F:CA:EA:1::/64. There may be other IPs. I've fixed a few and can probably do the rest semi-automatically, but not tonight. Certes (talk) 00:49, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I do indeed: Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested/Archive 14#Excessive and irrelevant linking, even down to syllables of words and User talk:Narky Blert#Disabled filter 1010. Your find is in the same range and must have been missed. Fortunately, it's stale (nothing since October 2020). Narky Blert (talk) 07:42, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the pointers. I've fixed what I can. Most pages have been edited dozens of times since, so "undo" is problematic. What remains is harmless overlinking of common terms such as Banana. I don't see any recent additions. Certes (talk) 11:53, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RfC notice[edit]

This is a neutral notice sent to all non-bot/non-blocked registered users who edited Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics in the past year that there is a new request for comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics § RfC: Where should so-called voiceless approximants be covered?. Nardog (talk) 10:55, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nardog: Thanks for the ping. I'll pass - my only contributions to that page have been to ask for help. Narky Blert (talk) 11:04, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Une vendetta[edit]

Hi, you created this page tagging it as a redirect, but it seems you forgot to create the redirect itself. I've fixed it now with what appears to be the target you intended, so this is just a reminder to take care to avoid such mistakes. — Smjg (talk) 14:52, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Smjg: Thanks - A Vendetta is the intended target. (Not sure what happened there, the page as you found it was indeed less than helpful.) Narky Blert (talk) 14:57, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

August thanks[edit]

August songs

Thank you for dab help and music pointers! My 12th today, DYK? I decorated, also for a birthday. Songs invite to more music, places, food and flowers. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:06, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Bravo!
Do you know this cycle? I think it's rather charming. There's a lot of good little-known British song from the first quarter of the twentieth century.
Some years ago, I heard a broadcast masterclass; I forget who by; a baritone I think. A young tenor gave a stunning performance of Bridge's "Love Went A-Riding". The great man heard him out in silence, and then reconstructed the interpretation bar-by-bar. After 15 minutes, he burst into laughter and said, "Well, at least I got you to sing it differently".
Later this week, I will be promoted to Auspicious Looshpah . It's remarkable how many edits you can make if you concentrate on fixing small errors. Narky Blert (talk) 15:14, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, - no I don't know that cycle. Will love to get to know it, but was just called to task about neglected work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:22, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Gerda Arendt: My Oath, but the script in the photo of the plaque at Idstein is difficult to read! Where are the words from? They aren't the same as Psalm 45:11-12 in the Lutherbibel. Narky Blert (talk) 16:16, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I don't know what Bible translation they used, or perhaps inscripted what they knew from memory (or not). - Today: 2 interesting DYK (I think), sadly 2 who died (on top of 2 from Poland yesterday), and a concert in which Daniel Barenboim just played piano, - and afterwards he and the orchestra received last year's prize (pictured). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Gerda Arendt: In music based on writings by the class of people who T. S. Eliot called "Lords of Language" (who could seemingly do anything with words), there is Shakespeare (well out in front), followed by Goethe and Pushkin, and Dante is almost nowhere at all (Liszt twice, Francesca da Rimini a few times, Gianni Schicchi; and that's about it). He may even be behind Virgil (Les Troyens), but probably ahead of Chaucer. Narky Blert (talk) 22:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
... and let's not forget that Gianni Schicchi is based on just two lines by Dante ;) - Most of the text of Conchetti's Inferno is by Dante (translated for the spoken parts). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:17, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Today: 3 DYK, including that the author dedicated a summer story to a license plate number ;) - Five rows of images added, sunflowers and butterflies continued, four rows of 15 August alone, - a rich Monteverdi day, - enjoy! - Sorry, it was too rich to look for the Bible translation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:22, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Gerda Arendt: I've recently been listening to quite a lot of another classical tradition, the pibroch; it may be my Scottish ancestry.
Pibroch is a variation form; with much subtlety, considering that it's based on a pentatonic scale with limited harmony and no dynamics. The story goes, that seven of Padruig Mór MacCrimmon's eight sons died of smallpox within a year, and that as a result he composed The Lament for the Children. Narky Blert (talk) 21:23, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Atonement[edit]

As you doubtless already know... I stole your joke (off-wiki)! El_C 18:04, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Argh, and I stole that image from CAPTAIN RAJU — damn, the Captain's looking fine. El_C 18:11, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@El C: Kelvin Mackenzie on Frank Pilkington, I think - but I only have non-WP:RS sources, and we live and die by those. Narky Blert (talk) 18:57, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: Off-topic, and why not? In the early 60s, JLH toured the UK, playing with whatever backing bands he could find. In Scotland - "I'm John Lee Hooker, the bluesman". "I'm Alex Harvey, and hoo are ye?" "I'm John Lee Hooker, the bluesman - and don't you be asking me again."
JLH could play slow blues like no other. Narky Blert (talk) 19:11, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, a true story? Sweet. Yes, so true. In other news, I'm also B.B. King's brother (in the blues). You might come from Oklahoma, Narky Blert, but I'm from Mobile. El_C 20:06, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: Ah yes, Mobile - famed in song and story (mainly song).
I knew a mod on another site who was born and grew up there; a bit younger than I am. After talking it through, we agreed that she'd probably never pulled beer in the places I used to frequent. Anyway, in the early 60s, she was standing at a checkout and offered a sweetie to a little boy her own age. How was she supposed to know that was wrong? Bad parenting, I suppose.
In the early 80s, I lost a springbar from my watchstrap. I hit the Yellow Pages, and found a jeweller (clearly a European immigrant), who sold me a replacement for something like 10¢. It was broad day, and there was no-one around; but I felt unsafe walking from and to my car.
It was also at that time that an area manager at the plant I was visiting dropped the N-bomb. I wasn't senior enough to do more than say, "Oh, really?"
I have mixed feelings about the place, and never did find the club they call Big Jack's. Narky Blert (talk) 22:07, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I presume that by N-bomb you mean Neutron bomb, so by going nuclear, you've already won my heart. To that: Anton Petrov, if you read this... I love you, marry me! (and he links to Wikipedia, too, my man!). Anyway, I met [seen] my first black person when I was like 7 (my mom's friend from university, originally from Kenya). To her credit (and speaking of atonment), she took my racist staring and glaring quite well... Back to Alabama (where the skies are so blue and the governor's true), I've had some good times there, myself. Folks were super-friendly. Of course, broken-English moi, what wasn't there to love? El_C 00:11, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rene Gonzalez Architects Page[edit]

Hi there, thank you for reviewing and editing this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rene_Gonzalez_Architects

Since you seem to have a lot more experience editing Wiki than me, I'm wondering if you know why the page doesn't appear as a result when doing a Google search. I was trying to find it recently to show it to a friend and was surprised to see it not appear as a result. Is there an issue with the page itself or perhaps a setting I chose that is preventing it from appearing? Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks! macgirl (talk) 17:19, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Macgirl: I didn't review the page (which BTW looks good), just fixed an ambiguous link - that's what I do.
I blame Google. It's usually a safe bet. Nobody knows how their algorithm works. I couldn't get them to find it either, even by typing in the full name + wikipedia. You may need more pageviews; give it time. I suspect you're being swamped by views of the firm's own site.
Other search engines are available. DuckDuckGo turns up a link to your article in this search result, in their infobox about the firm (which is where you want it to be); though not in the main body of the search (not near the top, anyway).
I've added a hatnote field to René González, which may point more traffic your way. Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 18:06, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for looking into it! I was genuinely puzzled but that makes sense (pageviews). Hopefully it will start appearing soon. Thanks again! :) macgirl (talk) 18:35, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation of link to crash program in SAM-N-2 Lark‎ article[edit]

We seem unable to communicate thru the edit summaries of our recently reverted edits to SAM-N-2 Lark. Why are you inappropriately linking a disambiguation page where the link should go directly to the explanatory article crash program? I hope you will desist from this edit warring if you simply follow the link in question before reverting my edits. Thewellman (talk) 00:14, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Thewellman: My apologies! You are correct. When I first came across the target article, crash program was of course a redirect. Narky Blert (talk) 06:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. I suggest considering the possibility the error program being used, or the response to flagged errors, may be inconsistent with WP:Iar. Specifically, numerous articles, often tagged with the disambiguation template, but usually lacking the (disambiguation) suffix to their title, consist of a broad definition followed by something resembling a See Also list of organizations, songs, books, movies, games, or consumer products using some variation of that name. In many cases, articles are linking this page for the definition, while users are finding the page while searching for information on one of the commercial uses of that title. I value the work being done to satisfy this functional duplicity while standardizing the disambiguation format, but Wikipedia's fluid status increases the difficulty of sequencing corrective actions. Exercising some level of WP:Iar review of computer flagged articles prior to corrective action may reduce editorial conflict.
Thank you for your exceptional efforts to improve Wikipedia. Thewellman (talk) 20:27, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Thewellman: {{dn}} tags rarely specify the attempted DABfixer's motives, which can range between "maybe a specialist knows what this means" and "is this topic actually notable?" or "is this information correct?" One of the classes in between is, "we don't seem to have a relevant article"; and one of the best results is that the article gets written. I've written a couple to solve such problems, and you've just written another. (I can confirm that crash programme is a well-known term in UK.) Best, Narky Blert (talk) 21:45, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

August 2021 - AfD discussion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the articles Boomtown 2019 and Boomtown 2020 are suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether they should be deleted.

The articles will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Boomtown 2019 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the articles during the discussion, including to improve them to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notices from the tops of the articles.

~dom Kaos~ (talk) 09:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank You[edit]

Thanks for your activity. This helped me lot. Jino Tom Issac (talk) 07:52, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RFC: Pending-changes protection of Today's featured article[edit]

Per your request at WP:CR, notifying you of closure. - jc37 02:18, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh thank goodness. PC + High activity = very bad idea. El_C 19:28, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: See User talk:Sdkb/Archive 5#Short-term protection of TFA - help requested. Narky Blert (talk) 19:35, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not a big fan of PC, in general, but upon further thought, maybe with so many eyes on it, it wouldn't be chasing/losing revisions like other active PC'd pages that aren't watched so much...? Honestly, not sure I have decent metric to tell, so maybe I mis-spoke. El_C 19:41, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I should note that when I see a TFA posted on RfPP, I always semi it without exception (preemptive requests not included). El_C 19:53, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: Last February, there seemed to be PP requests for TFA at ANI every other day; though they seem to have stopped recently. (It's difficult to track RFPP requests, because they get deleted rather than archived.) Most junk added to TFA is deleted very quickly (and if an article has gone through TFA, who's improving it anyway?); but I found a couple of real horrors which had stayed on our front page for over half-an-hour. Having floated this madcap idea, I'd like to see it through, whatever the result.
A folksong for you. Narky Blert (talk) 19:56, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, no longer a rolling archive — behold Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Archive. ToBeFree deserves awards! El_C 20:27, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
😂 the never-ending story. It will take years for everyone to notice the new RFPP structure, let alone the archive. That's not bad, as complaints slowly arrive over time rather than in hundreds a day. 😉 ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:25, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Credit for creating that archive, by the way, goes to Cyberpower678 through Cyberbot I. All I did in this regard is nagging for this to happen, again and again, and prettifying the resulting title page. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:36, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Right, damn my memory is for shit. Sorry, Cyberpower678, for stealing your thunder (and giving it to ToBeFree) On the plus side, ‎Example Article Name = endless comedy. El_C 21:57, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
El C, that's OK, you can buy me a beer, some cookies, and maybe even a 'crat nomination. :p —CYBERPOWER (Message) 22:53, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Cyberpower678, most definitely, rounds are on me, all night long. BTW, Cyberbot I's has been growing plumped on the many treats I've been giving it. Hope that's okay, its your pet after all. El_C 23:17, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I rely on Somebody "Notme" Else for things like that. Narky Blert (talk) 04:59, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Cue obligatory I'm someone else! –spam. El_C 13:04, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Heh, I deserved that. El_C 20:27, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

BBCucking it up[edit]

Just watched the pilot for Vigil (police procedural on a nuclear sub). I liked it. El_C 19:30, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@El C: Conspiracy theorists were all over the shop when Gaul was lost in 1974, and for some years after. Could be the basis for a good miniseries. Narky Blert (talk) 20:52, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
For sure. In this series, though, they're, like, we're in British territorial waters, so we're gonna to let the Met handle a suspicious death aboard a nuclear sub (lol!). But it's actually well done. Recommended. El_C 21:13, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The favourite theories were (i) kidnapped by the Russians and (ii) dragged under by a nuclear sub tangled in her nets. I don't think alien abduction was suggested, but I could be wrong.
And of course the Scots would call in the Met - if the RN didn't first. Narky Blert (talk) 05:07, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Of course! Of course, that if anyone could comprehend said call ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Got episode 2 queued up, btw... El_C 11:26, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Call that an accent? My father was a Glaswegian, and taught me an expression he'd picked up in the Army - "Twa the bonne aff n pu the heid in im." (Translation: Take his bonnet off and headbutt him (because you've sewn broken safety razor blades under the band around yours).)
His niece (who's lived in Paris for 40-odd years) once visited, and he asked if she'd lost her accent. He could decipher about one word in three of her reply. Narky Blert (talk) 12:35, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nice! It's like a different language. And then, of course, there's feeding the family ham to (a most noble albeit drunken pursuit). Whenever I visited family in England, I was mostly just in, well, England, so sadly I didn't get to meet many Scotts (or Welsh). But there's still time! El_C 12:52, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: Having finally got off my arse and signed up to iPlayer, a couple of things struck me. Unless the RN has changed a lot, their captains (and those of most navies, with the notable exception of some but not all officers of the Kriegsmarine) have always risked their ships to save lives. The scene is which the cop is given confidential files reminded me of the one in Reefer Madness in which an FBI agent cheerfully hands over such files to a civilian. Still, these things keep the plot moving... Narky Blert (talk) 20:21, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, it's dumb fun. But they manage to pull it off for the lulz suspense. Are you caught up? Ep 4 ended on quite a cliffhanger, albeit an especially beyond-implausible one. El_C 20:47, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@El C: One ep/day. Ep 2, so now getting the Markov/Litvinenko vibes. Boy, the writers know their shit!

No, I don't think the Met was called in, but the Scottish police. I'm pinning my hopes on a mention of the procurator fiscal.

I can confirm that "scran" is good NW (and probably also RN) English, and that "all right?" as a greeting/acknowledgment is good Midlands and NW (and probably also Scottish) English.

The CPR in ep1 was rubbish (if you don't risk breaking ribs, you're not doing it properly), and the lifesaving in ep2 ditto.

The flashbacks and sceneshifts take some untangling, but it's all good clean fun. Narky Blert (talk) 22:11, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, it was Police Scotland, not the Met. Anyway, I like subs! Just by sheer happenstance, I started re-reading Mishka Ben David's The Shark, today, which is very technical. And then nukes get detonated! Over major cities!!! It isn't available in English, though, I don't think. Anyway, let me know when you're caught up with the latest episode. El_C 02:28, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: Das Boot meets The Wire meets...
Shaun Evans has toned down his Scouse accent for comprehensibility, I could do with a northeastener on board - larn yersel Geordie! (I can make out better than 95% of that; I don't fancy your chances at all).
Mitchell and Webb were also very good on gluten. Narky Blert (talk) 19:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@El C: Ep 4. Does the beardy guy with the semi-Afro usually seen sitting behind a computer remind you of Lester Freamon?

My OWN and this is MY VERY OWN conspiracy theory - if a British sub commander ever presses the GO! stud on a Trident missile - nothing will happen at its destination unless someone in the Pentagon has turned the relevant switch. Remind me who supplied those missiles. Independent deterrent? natch... Narky Blert (talk) 22:12, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe a younger Freamon (who has seen a lot less action). Heh. Israel for example, didn't need to do shit. The French just took am to the test sites, shared all the detonation data with them, etc., then Israel was, like, merci, we can take it from here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ El_C 22:19, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@El C: Ep 5, getting a bit black.

I'm rewatching Das Boot. I can't find a version with subs. My German isn't too bad, but mixtures of accents and dialects in a single scene make heavy going. It captures the essence of those noisy, oily, stinking, cramped, claustrophobic and downright unsafe tin cans, and of the men who manned them.

In 1943, an RAF plane encountered a U-boat off West Africa. The sources are crap - only one matters, it's WP:PRIMARY, and I haven't been able to find it. This is my reading of what happened. The German deck gunners were good; they'd scared off a US plane the week before. This time, they scored a hit, and set one engine afire. The pilot completed his turn into his bombing run, and attacked on a zero deflection course. As he dropped his depth charges, the Germans were firing directly upwards through the bomb bay doors. The sub's hull was cracked in two places, and it rapidly sank. And we wouldn't know even that, except by luck. A handful of sailors managed to get out, and make use of an inflatable dinghy which had broken loose from the bomber as it crashed. They were rescued by the RN a day or so later.

Not everyone who served in the Kriegsmarine was a sociopathic Nazi. There is a British and Commonwealth decoration open to all ranks, which can only be awarded on the witness of an officer of field rank or equivalent. One of those rescued was the German commander, Oberleutnant zur See Klemens Schamong. And that's why it's Lloyd Trigg VC. Narky Blert (talk) 22:34, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that's a tight spot! I wonder how she'll deus ex machina her way out of that one.
There's a ton of English subs (subs!) for Das Boot — for eg., yts-subs.com/movie-imdb/tt0082096 isn't too spammy, so hopefully, one of those will sync right. A masterpiece that's definitely worth rewatching.
Interesting bit of history there. Indeed, the details of so many of these wartime encounters are hazy and challenging to verify. Even famous ones, like the capture of Tiger 131. Subrelated, a couple of months ago, I saw Fredrik Knudsen's docu on the Battle of May Island (YouTube link). Definite recommend. El_C 23:02, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: I'm wondering if they're going to spring a Wicker Man denouement on us? (Note to self - check Wicker Man for bad links.)
Thanks for the Das Boot link, but I couldn't find a single operational sub there - either a link was dead, or it wanted me to download something I didn't want to download. I'll just have to tune my ears into the German.
I hadn't heard of May Island; it's the sort of thing navies tend not to talk about. In the early years of C20, there was a widespread feeling that this newfangled radio thingy was no match for the proven techniques of semaphore and Aldis lamps. Compare Honda Point (docu).
Even though WP:NSOLDIER has been deprecated, IMO there is a small number of decorations which guarantee WP:N - and let WP:BIO1E be damned! - usually individually, but sometimes collectively, as in Battle of Saragarhi. As well as the VC, I'll mention the Medal of Honor (even though both were sometimes handed out like sweeties in C19) and the Italian Gold Medal of Military Valour. (The Germans tended to prioritise quantity over quality, and the egalitarian French to spread awards widely; my late father was a Chevalier de Legion d'Honneur, basically for having landed in Normandy and survived into the 2000s.) (In 2018, I wrote an article about a recipient of that Gold Medal, and it got 3,400 views on the front page. Today, he was declared Venerable, one more step towards being acknowledged as a saint. I think that may be a unique double distinction. I abandoned a WP:GA proposal, because the reviewer wanted English sources, and didn't like my use of semicolons.)
It's notorious that almost any Nazi tracked vehicle in Normandy was identified as a Tiger. I can't stand Jeremy Clarkson, but this docu is very good. Narky Blert (talk) 17:48, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'll never tell! But all's well that ends [that's it, that's the end of the sentence], on the Vigil front. Now started watching Furia (2021, 8 episodes), no wiki page: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11204154/, because... Norway for some reason, and German election somehow (++ topical).
I found Knudsen explanations, both on the technical front and on the RN politics one, quite illuminating. So, yeah, another good docu from Buzz Knudson's estranged cousin (probably).
Heh, I'm sort of afraid to even look at my old timey articles. Many of them are basically argumentative essays.¯\_(ツ)_/¯ El_C 23:28, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: Aargh, not a spoiler! Though I did suspect it was going to be more Perils of Pauline (where everyone did their own stunts) than Wicker Man (which had only had 4 bad links; I thought there might have been more). An attempted "maximally destructive self-terminating improvisation" - I don't think Doward'll be back.
There was some lazy writing towards the end, but defo worth watching. There was some very good acting in minor roles. (I remember having to keep reminding myself that Maury Levy was portrayed by an actor.)
I now have a working link with subs (2 of them at the spot I've got to) for Das Boot. Things like "GERMAN MAN TALKING" could be improved upon, as could some of the translations of rude words and insults, and I had to switch to a browser with a better adblocker to spare myself the repeated sight of Anna's 37yo buttocks; but it's all good.
Many of my oldest articles really ought to be WP:BLARed. Narky Blert (talk) 17:27, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What, that was the end of that
Thankfully, some kind souls took pity on my Nothing comes from nothing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ El_C 17:41, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: There was a to-me surprising omission in that article, after 17 years at 170 views/day.
I'm rather proud of the fact that one of my articles has been upgraded to C-class, and attracted all of 208 views over the last year. Narky Blert (talk) 18:14, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This month, I beat the Hebrew Wikipedia to Israel Shield! El_C 19:16, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: Applause! It took me ages to {{ill}} link to an RTL language.
On a sidenote, and mounting my hobbyhorse - when I come across a good editor the WP in whose mothertongue is mediocre, I encourage them to edit there also. Any fool can edit English WP (and many of them do). How else will the project expand unless people can first read and then write in their mothertongue? In four years of trying, I have never once linked to, nor found useful info in, Hindi Wikipedia. And as for Mizo Wikipedia (837k native speakers, almost as many as Welsh, and four times as many as Breton), forget it - it doesn't exist. Even if a language starts off as blog quality, once it takes off it will attract admins who will drag the standard up. Not every WP needs to have 100k+-long articles on major subjects; but at the very least they could and should be world-class on topics of local importance. Narky Blert (talk) 20:10, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Trust me, the Hebrew Wikipedia does not need my help. It is very vibrant and has been so since its inception. Their founder is a really nice guy, btw. I've had some good chats with him back in the day. Anyway, the Israel Shield page is just one of those mysteries (as you can see, several more ancillary -related pages already exist on .he, a few probably not worthy of being ill'd, but I still l'd!). So, I'd say 99 percent of the time, the article already exists in Hebrew and I translate/write it in English rather than the other way around. El_C 20:48, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@El C: It's a lot easier if you can start an enwiki article from one in the base language.
I treat {{ill}} links indifferently as "this needs translating" and "you can find more information here". If someone puts the work in, an ill link to a NN subject can always be downgraded to ([[:xx:FizBuz|xx]]). (I loathe [[:xx:FizBuz|FizBuz]] WP:EASTEREGG links like the plague.)
hewiki is good, but limited. It's almost useless on birthplaces in eastern Europe. I do, however, know an expert editor on Judaism, who has helped me more than once.
My least pleasant experience (by some way) on WP was addressing a long-standing DABlink to a place in modern Belarus; and then another; and then a third - one after the other. I nailed them all through multilingual searching, even though all that survives of one of them is a memorial stone flat in the ground. Then I took an hour off. Narky Blert (talk) 21:33, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
For sure. Unlike in the pre-2010s, nowadays, the pages these ills lead to can basically be read by way of insta-machine translation (not read perfectly, but enough to get the gist of it, at least).
Now reading a Hebrew translation of Gerald Durrell's The Drunken Forest. It's a 1963 print, so the pages are basically turning to dust, so... added charm? El_C 22:18, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: Not in all scripts. My favourite example of Google Translate from Japanese WP ran "My wife, Mr X, is an imposter." I could think of no way to improve on that.
I grew up on Gerald Durrell. That article's a bit thin. If you've read My Family and Other Animals, the article on Theodore Stephanides might interest you. Narky Blert (talk) 22:36, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe that translation robot likes playing Among Us on the side...?
Alas, I am bound to the semi-randomness of my library — half personally selected, half inherited. El_C 14:50, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: I'd forgotten the denouement of Das Boot; but for some time I'd been getting "Call me Ishmael" "I only am escaped alone to tell thee" vibes - though with a less mad captain, and no-one nailing a seagull to the mast.
One thing that film left out was the chemical reaction lead-acid batteries + seawater → chlorine. Very nasty. Narky Blert (talk) 21:23, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open[edit]

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are now open. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:59, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Trelawney[edit]

Narky Blert, if you could do the round-robin swap to make Trelawny the basename, I will do the clean-up. Thanks, Leschnei (talk) 12:50, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Leschnei: Apologies for the delay, a combination of tiredness and PC problems. I've resurrected an old machine with a very sick keyboard; I'm having to use workarounds for all sorts of keys. Trelawny is now the basename, and Trelawney redirects to it. Let me know if anything else needs swapping.
I've noticed that that makes Trelawny the basename in all Western languages, which is for the good - see wikidata:Q2451262 Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 17:52, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Narky Blert:, sorry about the computer - such a hassle! I've finished the split; thanks again for the help, Leschnei (talk) 18:49, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nomination period closing soon[edit]

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are still open, but not for long. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! No further nominations will be accepted after that time. Voting will commence on 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:43, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Military history coordinator election voting has commenced[edit]

Hey y'all, voting for the 2021 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche is now open. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2021. Voting will be conducted at the 2021 tranche page itself. Appropriate questions for the candidates can also be asked. Thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:39, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Even Steven (song)" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Even Steven (song). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 September 17#Even Steven (song) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:35, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Shhhnotsoloud: WP:G7ed, and *poof!* Narky Blert (talk) 18:15, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's the way to do it ;-) Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 18:23, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Shhhnotsoloud: There's a legend that you can't call yourself "Professor" until you've accidentally swallowed a swazzle at least twice. Narky Blert (talk) 18:38, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Science magazine" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Science magazine. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 September 20#Science magazine until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Retroflexivity (talk) 04:22, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election voting period closing soon[edit]

Hey y'all, voting for the 2021 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche will be closing soon. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2021. Voting will be conducted at the 2021 tranche page itself. Thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:33, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Paladin[edit]

Thanks for creating Paladin (trilobite). The redirect assisted efforts in the prehistoric life of BPAT such as this. I'll see if I can dig out a fuller list of likely bad targets from that exercise. Certes (talk) 21:18, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Certes: Aargh. Assembling the bare bones of that article verged on the trivial; but identifying the authorities was anything but (we've been there before), creating 26 redirects and 2 DAB pages was mind-numbing, and I still have some loose ends to tidy up from species:Paladin. Narky Blert (talk) 21:40, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There were quite a lot of bad links over the whole series of articles by state and era, e.g. List of the Cenozoic life of Texas. Incidentally, I always thought of this as a perfect facepalm. Certes (talk) 21:57, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Certes: I've seen a fair number of those US lists, but have never done more than the multitudinous links incarnadine, making the orange ones red.
What were FIFA thinking of? Narky Blert (talk) 22:15, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

help for Draft:Calabrian cuisine[edit]

Good evening from Coreca, Calabria. I am writing to thank you for your intervention regarding Draft: Calabrian cuisine, I am writing to you if you can help me improve it and translate it well and in perfect English. Of course if I can do something for you in Sicilian wiki with my Calabrian variant, or in the Neapolitan wiki. If you can and want, could you also give me a little view of Coreca? For the rest, waiting to hear from you, thank you, greet and respect. See you soon and thanks.--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 16:53, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino: Ciao! It's much easier to write in your mother tongue than in another language.
I recommend a modern version of an old trick from the days of paper dictionaries. Use Google Translate, or some other computer program, to translate from Italian into English; then take the result and feed it back in the other direction. If that double translation makes sense in Italian, then the English version probably makes sense also. (There's a tale that in the very earliest days of machine translation, people would translate from English into Russian and back as a test. The proverb "out of sight, out of mind" came back as "invisible idiot" - which isn't quite the same thing.) Don't worry about being word- and grammar-perfect. If the meaning is clear, other editors will make the small improvements.
Don't translate the Italian names of dishes, there will rarely be an exact equivalent in English (the English for pasta is ... pasta, not paste). However, it can be useful to translate the individual words and include them in parentheses, e.g. Maccarruni ca sarsa (English: "macaroni [*if that's the right word*] with sauce"). (That sounds very like makaronia salsa, which I ate many times in Greece 50 years ago as a poverty-stricken student - but Greek: μακαρόνι(α) includes spaghetti, macaroni, and other varieties of long pasta.)
Your draft looks good, except where it needs translation. Feel free to ask for help. When you post it, make an Interwiki link to it:Cucina calabrese, and add {{translated page}} to the Talk Page. If needed, I could assist.
If you would like to help improve Neapolitan WP, you could translate my article Filippo Illuminato; it's more complete than it:Filippo Illuminato. Another article is Saint Dominic in Soriano, which doesn't exist in standard Italian or in any dialect. Ciao, Narky Blert (talk) 18:10, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

help for Dado Coletti[edit]

Hello, I have read the previous discussion and see what I can do with regards to Calabrian cuisine. Now, I ask you a small favor, could you help me to prevent the page from deleting? I'm a little bit rusty when it comes to English Wiki policies, could you update me and help out? I trust you and your wisdom, these days I start translating the articles into Neapolitan, I hope we can collaborate as soon as possible. waiting to hear you thank you and greet you.--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 14:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino: Ciao! It isn't easy to find WP:Reliable sources about him, so the article might have difficulty if listed at WP:Articles for deletion. However, I've added one good source (from RAI), and that is sufficient to permit me to remove the {{Prod BLP}} tag. Narky Blert (talk) 15:10, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Format of authority on Cuphea ignea[edit]

On Cuphea ignea the authority is given as A. DC.. I presume this should be Augustin Pyramus de Candolle but I didn't know if the specific way of presenting this is appropriate. Could you take a look?— Rod talk 15:19, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Rodw: You're right. The existing redirect A.DC. would have done the trick, but I piped it for good measure - why puzzle readers? Narky Blert (talk) 15:26, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Precious anniversary[edit]

Precious
Five years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:29, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: W. B. Yeats' poem "Aedh Wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" set by Thomas Dunhill - The Cloths of Heaven, with Janet Baker and Martin Isepp. Narky Blert (talk) 11:35, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
How lovely, poetry and music and singing and dreams. Se my talk for colours today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:42, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Saints[edit]

I noticed your appropriate nomination of Saints, but its RfD entry seems to have turned into a pumpkin. Certes (talk) 21:53, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Certes: Try again, I got hit with an {{ec}} (or perhaps a pumpkin). Now that someone has kindly cleaned out what was left of Reformed (see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 October 20#Reformed), my conscience is more-or-less clear in making this nomination. (Pumpkins are so yesterday - this nomination is for today.)
For the best use I've seen for pumpkins, My new Trebuchet!!. Narky Blert (talk) 22:10, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I've had similar problems when nominating a clutch of redirects: people !vote while I'm trying to consolidate them into one easy discussion. Saints is one of the few plurals I watch without a Saints (rugby) or similar qualified redirect to a team. I see you've tagged The Saints which correctly redirects to a dab. Certes (talk) 22:24, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Certes: My record for failing to get an XFD to post is something like 13 or 14; IIRC it was an AFD. I routinely add {{R ambig}} or {{R from incomplete disambiguation}} tags to redirects which turn up in DPwL; IMO, every redirect to a DAB page which isn't {{R to disambiguation page}} should be tagged one or the other; anything else (other than those very-necessary history tags) is frippery. Narky Blert (talk) 22:41, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Derner (disambiguation)" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Derner (disambiguation). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 9#Derner (disambiguation) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Estopedist1 (talk) 09:15, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of West Africans (disambiguation)[edit]

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on West Africans (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

  • disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia page and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic);
  • disambiguates zero extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title; or
  • is an orphaned redirect with a title ending in "(disambiguation)" that does not target a disambiguation page or page that has a disambiguation-like function.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 19:29, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Shhhnotsoloud: Now an easy G14, ty. Narky Blert (talk) 20:13, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Shhhnotsoloud: If you come across any more redundant (disambiguation) redirects of mine, don't bother to notify, just G14 them, I'm never going to object (unless there's been a WP:HIJACK like this horror, which I'm keeping an eye on). (I pick up one or two G14s/missing {{other uses}} a day from WP:TDD#Today's highlights.) Narky Blert (talk) 19:51, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's great, Narky, thanks. In future I'll untick the Twinkle box. Regards, Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:05, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Help[edit]

Can you please add the photo of janglinath mahadev from Wiki commons to the Lakhahi Raj page in janglinath Mahadev's column.


I don't know that how to add Please add I will be thankful to you for this help 2409:4063:4D1A:2287:0:0:E648:4F08 (talk) 17:06, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Can you give me links to the picture and to the target page? Narky Blert (talk) 17:23, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

November thanks[edit]

November songs

Thank you for stories on my talk, and a wealth of music to listen to! The memory of SlimVirgin is pictured again, in the context about my dangerous thoughts about arbcom. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:47, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ps: do you plan to take Belsky to DYK? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:47, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: - no, I've used up my five free submissions, and have no time for reviewing. But if you'd like to, please do so. (I had the satisfaction of finding that photo and adding it to all the other languages.) Narky Blert (talk) 16:52, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'll see what I can do. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:59, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, too "old". Next time, please tell me a little sooner, like 3 days after creation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:01, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Gerda Arendt: You might enjoy the photographs in the Mariinsky citation in Belsky's article (#1 under Further reading) - those costumes!
I've realised that I've known bits of Sadko for most of my life - Dad had a 78 with the Songs of the Indian and Viking Guests.
From the little I know of Rimsky's operas, they deserve a wider hearing in the West. The Astrologer in The Golden Cockerel announces that the tale contains a moral. Indeed it does, and a rather pointed one - the censors must have been asleep.
Not for the last time in Russia. For me, one of the great tingle moments in C20 music is just before the end of Shostakovich 10, when you realise that the previous hour has been building and building towards this instant when the heavy brass spit DSCH into Stalin's and the apparatchiks' faces. I imagine the latter just sat there and applauded, oblivious. Narky Blert (talk) 20:54, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Alumni Cantabrigienses[edit]

Hello, Narky Blert. You have new messages at KenBailey's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

New message from Chess[edit]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Centre for Research in Neurodegenerative Diseases. This is because you seconded my previous PROD on the page. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 04:38, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My misunderstanding[edit]

Hi Narky Blert. I'd like to get your advice. Hope you don't mind me asking you here, it's just I see your (very memorable) name doing DAB tasks, a lot, and hoped you could give me your thoughts. I was doing DABs for "self-contradiction", and one I changed, in the lead of oxymoron, a regular editor did not agree with and reverted (rather than finding a better link). That being the case, I thought it best to leave it in, but make it an intentional DAB with piped link, "self-contradiction (disambiguation)". Same editor reverted again and wants me to get consensus for it on talk page. I would be willing to do that, but just wondering whether I am missing something here? What would be objectional in this, or have I misunderstood? It seems such a routine change. I'm loathe to engage without knowing for sure, especially over such a minor thing, and I do not wish to step on toes. I could just leave it, but my slight obsession with neatness and DABs, makes my fingers itch to correct it! Hope you can advise. Many thanks. AukusRuckus (talk) 23:20, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@AukusRuckus: Apologies for not replying earlier; I've been offline since a day or two before you posted. Am I right in thinking that you and the other editor did reach consensus on the Talk Page? If so, there's no need for me to stir the pot now. Happy gnoming! Narky Blert (alt) (talk) 07:43, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Narky Blert:. So good to see you back on board! No need to worry about that storm-in-a-teacup; you're right, we reached some sort of limping-along, more-or-less satisfactory conclusion.
After always seeing you so active around the traps on WP, I had started to imagine that a message from me was some sort spell to make stalwarts suddenly evaporate! No longer was the name "Narky Blert" sighted at many points. Later, of course, saw the news that you were in hospital. I hope you have made a good recovery and are now well - or at least far on the road to a full recovery. Very kind of you to reply, and thank you for your willingness to lend a hand. Keep well now, and I look forward to seeing you around lots, as normal! AukusRuckus (talk) 09:47, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December opera[edit]

December songs

today an Italian opera, my second ever, as the TFA written by two dear people, and a park where I went with dear people, as pictured DYK --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:13, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

on Beethoven's birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:46, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A message from Narky Blert[edit]

A message from Narky Blert:

I’m in hospital and recovering but offline. Best wishes to my colleagues. Narky Blert. 82.132.247.115 (talk) 16:21, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm very sorry to hear that but it sounds as if things are improving. We'll miss you, but please don't feel any pressure to return until you're fully fit. All the best for a speedy recovery. Certes (talk) 16:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Me too – very sorry to hear you're currently hors de combat but wishing you a fast and full recovery. Cheers DBaK (talk) 16:34, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Best wishes for a speedy recovery. El_C 14:33, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2022[edit]

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2022!!

Hello Narky Blert, warm wishes to you and your family throughout the holiday season. May your heart and home be filled with all of the joys the festive season brings. Here is a toast to a Merry Christmas and prosperous New Year!. 

scope_creepTalk 01:19, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome back[edit]

It's a great pleasure and relief to see you again. Wishing you and your password a speedy recovery, Certes (talk) 17:06, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

An update from Narky Blert[edit]

Thank you all for your good wishes, and belated Seasons' Greetings. Password recovery is proving tiresome (rather than troublesome), so I've created this alternate account for use during what I hope will be a limited time. Narky Blert (alt) (talk) 15:53, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome back.— Rod talk 14:03, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And now back on my primary account. Narky Blert (talk) 08:49, 17 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I am delighted to see this! Best wishes DBaK (talk) 16:27, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Cruel Sea[edit]

Gonna (re)watch The Cruel Sea, which reminded me of a story. Years back, I had written a piece that heavily featured the HMS Eagle. So a few months later, I'm sitting at the El Al business lounge, getting fuckin' wasted, as I do, and I just happen to meet this guy who served on the Eagle. Anyway, we got drunk and he told me nautical tales. ⚓ El_C 20:03, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@El C: The wartime RN propaganda film was In Which We Serve, in which upper lips were very much kept stiff; its star and director coincidentally featured recently in another of our exchanges.
Small-ship actions don't feature much in film; they were often somewhat one-sided and have predictable endings, as for example with HMS Glowworm and USS Johnston.
If you're interested in naval history, I recommend drachinifel's YouTube channel. He knows his stuff and has a dry sense of humour. Narky Blert (talk) 09:11, 17 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I'm just about wrapping up Discworld adaptations that don't suck. Fun in the sun! El_C 09:30, 17 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Threshold guardian (disambiguation)[edit]

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Threshold guardian (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

  • disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia page and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic);
  • disambiguates zero extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title; or
  • is an orphaned redirect with a title ending in "(disambiguation)" that does not target a disambiguation page or page that has a disambiguation-like function.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 10:36, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

late[edit]

February songs
in friendship

You were so silent I didn't even notice you missing, and now read about hospital and missing password ...: best wishes for 2022! Thank you for resuming musical inspiration! I was on vacation, so a bit absent-minded. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:21, 17 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: The ultimate ambition for a WikiGnome is for no-one to notice your edits!
My experience wasn't quite like this - "I Went to a Marvellous Party" - link, by Patricia Routledge. Narky Blert (talk) 20:15, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
stand and sing --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:28, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I took a pic in 2009, and it was on the German MP yesterday, with the song from 1885, in English Prayer for Ukraine. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:52, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
March songs

more music if you like. Prayer for Ukraine continued. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:38, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Prayer is on the Main page, finally + new flowers, and btw: the TFA is a young writer's first --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:21, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bach's No. 1 today --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:06, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: I'd seen that. Do you think that "Morning Star" in the translated title should be capitalised, as a proper name? The other aspect of the planet Venus is capitalised in "Song to the Evening Star"; though that is necessary because of WP:TITLECASE (a guideline I detest). Narky Blert (talk) 16:23, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In 1599, who cared about our rulez about capitalisation ;) - they had the plague --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:22, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sunday flowers and sounds, don't miss the extraordinary marriage of the beginnings of the theme of Wie schön leuchtet der Morgenstern, BWV 1, and Prayer for Ukraine - here! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:05, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Girl of My Dreams (I Love You) [de]", written by Sunny Clapp [de] (1927); see List of songs recorded by Perry Como[edit]

Link doesn't work Tillywilly17 (talk) 13:47, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They do for me - de:Girl of My Dreams and de:Sunny Clapp. You have to click on the [de] bit in the List article. Narky Blert (talk) 14:13, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

blue and yellow[edit]

April songs

Ukraine day today: Maks Levin DYK, expanding Kyiv Symphony Orchestra (have tickets), and creating Anthony Robin Schneider, the bass who could be heard opening the singing in Beethoven's Ninth twice on 10 March 2022, live in Frankfurt, Germany, and recorded in Auckland, New Zealand, singing "Freiheit!" (freedom) instead of "Freude" (joy), in a tradition started after the Fall of the Wall. In case of interest. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:31, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

... now you can listen to what I heard live yesterday: Kyiv Symphony Orchestra, Luigi Gaggero & Diana Tishchenko (violin) / Kulturpalast Dresden (25 April 2022 on YouTube (that's 25 April in Dresden, a different violinist, but the same program) - ours pictured here - dove sono as encore --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:06, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

May songs

continued - I like my talk today (actually mostly from 29 May - I took the title pic), enjoy the music, two related videos worth watching! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:12, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Western England" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Western England and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 April 27#Western England until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. feminist (talk) Слава Україні! 04:00, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

July songs[edit]

July songs

Thank you for being around! - I heard a great concert by Voces8, pictured. - I have a FAC open, in case of interest. Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:50, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

more July songs, from Swiss Alps --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:05, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Chah Afzal (disambiguation)[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Chah Afzal (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

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August songs[edit]

August songs

pics and thoughts on 13 August -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:11, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Look at the church where I heard VOCES8. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:12, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations opening soon[edit]

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are opening in a few hours (00:01 UTC on 1 September). A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:52, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election voting opening soon![edit]

Voting for the upcoming project coordinator election opens in a few hours (00:01 UTC on 15 September) and will last through 23:59 on 28 September. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. Voting is conducted using simple approval voting and questions for the candidates are welcome. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:27, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Correction to previous election announcement[edit]

Just a quick correction to the prior message about the 2022 MILHIST coordinator election! I (Hog Farm) didn't proofread the message well enough and left out a link to the election page itself in this message. The voting will occur here; sorry about the need for a second message and the inadvertent omission from the prior one. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:41, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

September music[edit]

September songs

Chamber music pictured today: Spannungen --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:17, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd never made the connection between "Dove sono" and the Coronation before.
And, as you mentioned September Song... Narky Blert (talk) 04:12, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
thank you! - travel and strings sound --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:24, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Bryan Henderson (disambiguation)[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Bryan Henderson (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

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Speedy deletion nomination of Pitch Circle Diameter (disambiguation)[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Pitch Circle Diameter (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

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@Shhhnotsoloud: Keep up the good work! This sort of housekeeping is thankless but very necessary. Narky Blert (talk) 22:30, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election voting closing soon[edit]

Voting for the upcoming project coordinator election closes soon, at 23:59 on 28 September. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. Voting is conducted using simple approval voting and questions for the candidates are welcome. The voting itself is occurring here If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:13, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Trussonomics has been accepted[edit]

Trussonomics, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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— Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 20:27, 20 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Wahidi Sultanate (disambiguation)[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Wahidi Sultanate (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

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Happy Holidays![edit]

Hello Narky_Blert: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, RV (talk) 07:07, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message
@RV: Thank you, and Best Wishes to you too!
My expertise in textiles is almost entirely restricted to viscose rayon, about whose manufacture I used to know rather a lot. Narky Blert (talk) 10:53, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year, Narky Blert![edit]

Happy New Year!

Narky Blert,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
— Moops ⋠T⋡ 20:17, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

— Moops ⋠T⋡ 20:17, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Moops: And A Happy New Year to you too! Narky Blert (talk) 06:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reorganizing the skin RfC[edit]

The RfC has been reorganized into "support", "oppose," and "neutral" subsections with numbered lists instead of * lists, and a "RfC discussion" subsection. A numbered list didn't work right with your two paragraph changes, they broke the numbering, so I changed the syntax of those paragraph changes from a new line and : to </p><p>. Is this acceptable? --Kizor 02:05, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kiz: Of course. The whole thing was beginning to get unwieldy when I posted. Reordering makes a great deal of sense, not least for the benefit of the suffering closer; and as you say, : breaks # lists. Narky Blert (talk) 05:09, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The test of great parody[edit]

... is that the reader is genuinely uncertain as to whether what he's reading is, or is not, in fact parody. I tossed and turned last night wondering: you were kidding, weren't you? [5] EEng 17:29, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@EEng: I enjoy many of your ANI posts; bubbles of pomposity need pricking, and I thought the complaint against you (which I am pleased to see has now been resolved) without any merit. Lord knows the cesspit can be a grim place. Mockery is the best therapy, especially against conspiracy theorists.
I was being as serious as you were in the thread about that appalling Filipino Greek letter society. There is footage; ignore the vapid commentary, look at what those firemen are doing, and shudder. I was only ever near one serious accident in a chemical plant; I was 3rd or 4th responder; 45 years ago, and I can still hear the screaming. Sorry, I think you overstepped the mark with that one.
FYI 1. The brazier at St Andrews was most likely a sawn-off oil drum with holes roughly colf-chisellled in the sides, filled with a fuel such as coke and used for heating or cooking. I can't find a pic on Commons.
FYI 2. On Yahoo! Answers, mods called the Religion & Spirituality section "the cesspit". A colleague and I used to double-team it occasionally; I went after the atheist trolls and he the Christian ones, because we each disliked the posts that made our side look bad. I have rare footage of our results.
Best, Narky Blert (talk) 18:45, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But under the standard to which you're holding me, wouldn't any reference to any energetic exothermic reaction be off limits, on the chance someone had witnessed some horror thereby triggered? Meanwhile... The brazier at St Andrews was most likely a sawn-off oil drum with holes roughly cold-chisellled in the sides??? Ouch! I guess wartime shortages made the conventional garment difficult to obtain. EEng 21:58, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@EEng: It's a question of degree. My colour video shows an exotherm; fire or acid is the only way. I remember contemporary jokes about Challenger, but not about 9/11.

A rich girl uses a brassiere,
A poor girl uses string,
Dinah uses nothing at all,
She lets the bastards swing.

David Niven claimed that during the filming of some appalling Hollywood weepie, he bribed the choirboys to segue from the line "And when I die" into a rousing British version of "Dinah". (Our article is very incomplete; the Mudcat one is somewhat fuller, though "honky tonk" should read "knocking shop".) On viewing the rushes, the director fell off his chair. Narky Blert (talk) 04:50, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

T. E. Meeks and misplaced linking of her women composer articles, again[edit]

Hello, you may or may not remember this situation, but this editor's still going at it ... see this edit to Victor Hugo, made less than 24 hours ago! Any input you might have at this thread on their talk page would be appreciated. I notified you because of your comments on the linked ANI. Graham87 19:06, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Pentapolis (disambiguation)[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Pentapolis (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

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Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open[edit]

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election have opened. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting will commence on 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:05, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Laurens, New York (disambiguation)[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Laurens, New York (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

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"SoC" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

The redirect SoC has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 9 § SoC until a consensus is reached. Thryduulf (talk) 00:54, 10 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Precious anniversary[edit]

Precious
Seven years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:14, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Special Barnstar[edit]

The Special Barnstar
For using creative problem solving to discern the use of pronouns for ancient enbys, seen here. Thank you. Schyler (exquirito veritatem bonumque) 16:22, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Schyler: Don't even get me started on Tiresias. See also Heracles#Heracles and Omphale. Narky Blert (talk) 17:59, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Voting for the WikiProject Military History newcomer of the year and military historian of the year awards for 2023 is now open![edit]

Voting is now open for the WikiProject Military History newcomer of the year and military historian of the year awards for 2023! The the top editors will be awarded the coveted Gold Wiki . Cast your votes vote here and here respectively. Voting closes at 23:59 on 30 December 2023. On behalf of the coordinators, wishing you the very best for the festive season and the new year. Hawkeye7 (talk · contribs) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:56, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

March thanks[edit]

story · music · places

Thank you for coming to my talk! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:45, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I uploaded vacation pics (from back home), at least the first day, - and remember Aribert Reimann. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:01, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: - "inspired by Claude Debussy's compositions for clarinet" - other than orchestral use, isn't there only the Première rhapsodie? Narky Blert (talk) 20:38, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know. Grimes2 wrote that, and we just lost him, it seems. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:44, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some days later, a calf in the mist and chocolate cake, and a story of collaboration --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

April[edit]

I like to see Appalachian Spring on the Main page today (not by me, just interested and reviewed), and I also made it my story. - How do you like the statue (see places)? I was undecided so show three versions ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:14, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The statue is of Hildegard of Bingen, and as it happens, her Physica is on the Main page today, and Marian Anderson as my top story (by NBC, 1939), and below (on my talk) three people with raised arms, - and the place is the cherry blossom in Frauenstein --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:48, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

plum tree blossom for Kalevi Kiviniemi in the snow - see my talk --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:57, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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