Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2006 September 19

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Key to pronunciation guid

Hello

I've been looking for a list of Proto-Indo-European roots, which Wikipedia has furnished me with List_of_Proto-Indo-European_roots.

However, I can't work out what the pronunciation key is to the roots - it doesn't seem to be the IPA symbols.

Can anybody help? Or am I being silly?

(also, if this is a common mistake people make, I will see what editing I can do to help people on the myriad otherwise excellent pages on languages and linguistics).

Cheers,

Michael Nash

The actual pronunciation of PIE is debated — we don't know with certainty. The transcription used is just a convention. --Ptcamn 04:22, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Proto-Indo-European language#Phonology should be of help. Thylacoleo 05:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Headline text (dialogues of South African English ?)

varieties of english language but what i would like to know are the varieties in the South African english

I would start with the South African English article. Some of the external links there might lead you to the information you are looking for. Daniel Šebesta (talk • contribs) 12:13, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

definition of Presque vu

Do you have a definition of Presque vu and Jamais vu Thanks Steve Knaeble

This is French. "Presque vu" means "almost/nearly seen" and "Jamais vu" means "never seen". I don't know why you are asking, but if you wonder why Wikipedia only has an article about Deja vu (already seen), it's because "deja vu" is a French phrase that's been commonly borrowed into English (as well as several other languages). 惑乱 分からん 16:42, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I seem to recall all three phrases from the novel Catch-22. Durova 17:47, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Presque vu is the experience that you are just about to be enlightened by some sort of mystical experience that never quite arrives. Jamais vu is the feeling that your current very ordinary experience is unique or something you are having for the first time ever. Both experiences are rarer than deja vu and are thought to be related to it. --John Cowan 05:16, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

What is the key to writing minutes.

I record and type minutes for the County Board and Committees. I am needing help in using proper terminology and relivant wording.

Reading through the minutes of meetings past would tell you what other people have done, and you could ask your colleagues for feedback on previous minutes - ask questions such as what did they like? What needs to stay and what needs to change? What will be the most useful format for the recipients? Googling county board minutes gives you this, which will give you an idea of different types of minutes and the terminology used (if you don't fall asleep first). Otherwise, use direct quotes when important points are made, and summarise the rest of the discussion in a way that the people reading it will understand. It would also be worthwhile familiarising yourself with the topics of discussion, so you understand what you are writing about and can explain it well in writing - reading through all the agenda documents, then searching/ asking for information on the stuff you don't know would be a good place to start. Natgoo 17:58, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Many board specify Roberts Rules as the standard, and that book may give you guidance. A board I was on established a standard that the secretary was not required to be a stenographer who wrote down whatever anyone said. Rather, he was to record such things as what board members attended and which were absent or excused, whether there was a quorom, that the meeting was convened and adjourned, motions, seconds, and the results of votes. Comments could be added ad lib, but were not part of the minutes per se.Edison 05:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

You might find minutes helpful. And don't forget to check your spelling.--Shantavira 07:15, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Unfamiliar Idiom: Top of the Rosa

Has anyone heard this term before? It's either "top of the rose" or "top of the rosa" meaning a new start/a fresh start.71.136.46.108 20:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Tabula rasa, a clean slate. Rmhermen 21:15, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

As written in the article: (Latin: scraped tablet/clean slate) 惑乱 分からん 21:38, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

This seems to be a newly discovered mondegreen. The linguistic community is no doubt abuzz. JackofOz 22:55, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

It’s an eggcorn, not a mondegreen. — Jéioosh 03:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Has anyone looked at the articles on eggcorn and mondegreen? They seem to have a serious overlap. Somebody's gotta fix that. AEuSoes1 08:44, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

You beat me to it. This probably isn't the place to discuss the matter, but ... what the hell. According to Eggcorn, the essential difference between an eggcorn and a mondegreen is that the latter is found in a song, poem or similar. But according to Mondegreen, being found in a song, poem or similar is not a defining feature of a mondegreen, and indeed the article contains numerous examples of mondegreens that are not related to such things. Both eggcorns and mondegreens seem to be the result of mishearing. I really can't see any material difference between mishearing "next door" as "next store" (allegedly an eggcorn), and mishearing "grand parade" as "Grandpa raid" (a mondegreen). The term "eggcorn" was apparently coined only 3 years ago; has it really established itself so quickly among linguists? JackofOz 09:25, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The difference is that an eggcorn involves a semantic reanalysis: users of an eggcorn think they know what it means, and are able to argue that their version is actually correct, while this is not the case for most mondegreens.

Hearing "next door" as "next store", you can construct an etymology for either; "next door" is not much more logical as a general term for the next room or building, given that something can be "next door" even if it doesn't have any doors, so it's equally reasonable (in the absence of etymological data) to assume that it's "next store" and was originally only used on shopping streets. On the other hand, nobody in their right mind would think that "grandpa raid" was correct, even if they were certain that that was what they'd heard. — Haeleth Talk 16:39, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I think that's the humourous aspect of mondegreens, that people do think they're right. But if your definition is accurate, then "top of the rosa" is a mondegreen rather than an eggcorn.AEuSoes1 18:13, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Translation of the spanish word "Enyerbamiento"

What does the word "Enyerbamiento" mean in the following passage?

b) Enyerbamiento:

Puede ser natural o artificial (26 pp 71) y al contrario del laboreo, el enyerbamiento favorece el desarrollo de la actividad biológica y de la microflora del suelo, actividad que más tarde será importante para el desarrollo del ascocarpo (22 pp 158).

Cuando la parcela entre en producción, será interesante tener (22 pp 158), una cobertura vegetal, sobre la totalidad o solamente una parte de la plantación, controlado por el pase de una desbrozadora.

Thanks for the help Crazy Wolf 21:38, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Appears to be some kind of plant? 惑乱 分からん 21:40, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

It is a method of working the ground in a tree plantation to remove weeds. The other methods are tilling, chemicals, and a mixed method. But I'm not sure what this method is supposed to be. Could it mean mulching? -- Crazy Wolf 21:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it means to "cover in grass/herbs", but to be honest, it's one of the words in that spanish text which I can't make out... Otherwise, the text seems fairly simple. 惑乱 分からん 23:14, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I think it means first growing maté to get the soil working in preparation for agricultural production. Jameswilson 00:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure Yerba mate is required? Yerba allegedly only means "herb", and I think several different kinds would be sufficient. (Where are all the fluent hispanics when you need them?) 惑乱 分からん 09:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I suspect that it means covering the ground with grass, herbs, or even weeds. The point is to cover the ground with vegetation to promote the development of soil microorganism. My guess is that this is a preparation for the cultivation of mushrooms, since an "ascocarpo" (ascocarp) is a kind of mushroom. Marco polo 18:07, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

French "enherbement" would translate that if it was a French word. It would mean what's been hinted by Wakuran : let the herbs grow and cover ground.

So, "el enyerbamiento favorece el desarrollo de la actividad biológica y de la microflora del suelo" shall be "the grass cover shall ease the growth of biological activity and of the microflore of the ground." -- DLL ^{.. T} 18:26, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

No I'm not insisting on maté specifically. Just me stereotyping Latin America. BTW is this just for previously uncultivated soil or is it also for decontamination as when they grow cabbages to decontaminate the soil around old steelworks? 23:43, 20 September 2006 (UTC)