Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries/Archive/2007

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The result of the debate was taken to sfd for deletion or upmerge

Unproposed, redlinked category. We normally split tertiary institutions by location, though we do have {{Lawschool-stub}} and {{Seminary-stub}}. This is part of that second-dimension of splits, and may be quite a reasonable one, but if kept, it should probably be renamed to {[tl|Businessschool-stub}}, since X-school-stub is used exclusively for schools - i.e., primary, intermediate, and secondary institutions. Grutness...wha? 00:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the point on format, I agree that it should be reformatted to read Businessschool-stub instead of business-school-stub. The only reason I did not set it up like that originally was that it had so many s's in a row. Business schools are professional schools, comparable to law school or medical school, and would help to coordinate schools of a similar nature. I'm not sure how to formally submit this for review, could you guide me as to how to submit this for review and change the format to businessschool-stub? Thanks! Muchris 13:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

This stub has been to SFD twice before in January 2006 and March 2006. The first one ended as no consensus and the second time it was deleted due to its small size. Things have improved in a year, but it's still marginal according to Stub Sense. It reports 121 stubs in the first 500 articles (with no more stubs found if one increases to the max 4000), but once one eliminates false positives from faculty, there's only around 50 business school stubs. Caerwine Caer’s whines 01:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Links to 2 items and is upmerged to Cat:Business stubs. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
• Update: still upmerged, unused. Her Pegship (tis herself) 04:01, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

Created around a month ago. I've cleaned up the code. Potentially useful I guess. Valentinian ^{T / C} 21:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep and create cat - A quick look at transclusions for {{Palestine-bio-stub}} shows about 25 relevant articles. I also see about 75 articles currently tagged as {{Palestine-stub}} that are actually biographies. That would put about 100 articles in Category:Palestinian people stubs, leave 100 in Category:Palestine stubs, and leave 250 in Category:Middle Eastern people stubs. There are undoubtedly {{MEast-bio-stub}}s that could be restubbed as well. So, I propose full stub and category. — jmorgan (talk) 13:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was send to WP:SFD

Mentioned by the creator on the stub list talk page. Currently used on three stubs. Well formed template which effectively acts as a custom redirect for {{horror-novel-stub}}. I'm a little leery of the small size, as the parent has only 120 stubs, but the scope is clearly defined and Cat:Horror does have subcats for zombies and vampires in fiction. Recommend that we keep and list as a redirect. Caerwine Caer’s whines 06:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• Doesn't look well-formed to me (like most of the "novels" templates, in fact), and there's no Cat:Zombie novels. I'd be more inclined to delete. Alai 16:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
• I would agree that it should go - but for reasons of volume - I don't think this will ever be large enough to be warrented. Also I don't know that many consider this a separate genre. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was redirected to gastropod-stub

Newly created, and a bit of a case of putting the cart before the horse. Mollusc-stub isn't yet at a stage where it requires further splitting, and if it was, surely creating Cat:Gastropod stubs would make far more sense than leaping in to create a subtype of it. There is, BTW, a gastropod-stub - it was created then moved to this "correct name" and now redirects to orthogastropoda-stub. There also isn't a Cat:Orthogastropoda - there is, however, a Cat:Gastropods. If we want to split the molluscs, then I suggest that deleting this and replacing it with a more widely-scoped gastropod-stub would be the way to proceed. Grutness...wha? 23:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

• My apologies, I wasn't aware of the "new stub types should be proposed prior to creation at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals" ruling. I created the gastropod-stub, then moved it when I realised I was only working with Orthogastropodas and not also Eogastropodas. As there has been a trend lately to remove the Cat:Molluscs from Orthogastropoda pages I assumed people didn't want them appearing in the mollusc category so was doing what I could to change the situation. There are numerous articles, with more coming, in the Subclass Orthogastropoda so was doing some forward thinking.

The guidlines ask:

1. Is there a stub for this topic already? *No
2. Will the new type be well-defined enough to help editors identify articles that they have the expertise to expand? *It will narrow the field from the generic Molluscs to the true snails which is a narrower field to concentrate on.
3. Does the new stub type cover ground not covered by other type, or create a well-defined subtype that does? *It creates a well-defined subtype that is not easily confused with the larger type.
4. Will there be a significant number of stubs in this category; are there enough article stubs to warrant this new type? *There are at least 75 articles currently classed under Category:Mollusc stubs that would fall under the new stub type.
5. Would your new stub type overlap with other stub types? *No
6. If you are breaking a subcategory out of a pre-existing category, will the new stub reduce the size of the parent category by a significant amount? *Absolutely

Again, my apologies. Good day. Nashville Monkey 03:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

PS: just noticed that Wikipedia:Stub states

{{guideline}} so is not in fact a policy as I was led to believe... Just an observation on my part. Nashville Monkey 03:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Oookaaay. let's tackle a few of your points one at a time:

1. My apologies, I wasn't aware of the "new stub types should be proposed prior to creation at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals" ruling - Apology accepted... but please note that much of what you quote above is in the very next paragraph on from the notice about proposing stub types, at Wikipedia:Stub#New stub types. It's also at several other places on the same page in big red letters, and at the top of most stub categories.
2. As there has been a trend lately to remove the Cat:Molluscs from Orthogastropoda pages I assumed people didn't want them appearing in the mollusc category - Well, did you consider that they have been removed from that main category because they are already in a subcategory of it? It is silly to have something marked in the main part of Cat:Molluscs if they're in a subcategory of it. Currently it appears that orthogastropoda articles are in Cat:Gastropods, which is a subcat of Cat:Molluscs.
3. The guidlines ask: Is there a stub for this topic already? - yes there is - Cat:Mollusc stubs, which is far from needing a split. It is not normally the case that a stub category is split if there are only about 300 stubs in it (though I'll admit that point isn't spelt out at WP:Stub, where it perhaps should be).
4. As to it being a guideline rather than policy, yes it is, but guidelines are there for a very good reason, and I stand by my comment that new stub types should be proposed prior to creation because of that fact. Most people consider making new stub types a form of being bold, not realising that being bold is actively discouraged when it comes to templates and categories, since they take considerable work to fix if there are any problems with them. Problems such as, for instance, making a stub type which may at first seem reasonable but which on closer inspection has problems with its format or scope (such as creating a subtype rather than a more useful, more broadly scoped type, or accidentally creating a stub template with the wrong name and having to move it to a new name. Or making sure that the new stub category has a parallel permanent category associated with it). Consider, too, that the people who need to know about stub types in order to be able to use them are the people who do the stub-sorting work. Without knowing that a particular stub type exists, a parallel type could easily have been proposed and created by someone at WP:WSS, leading to even more work setting things straight once your stub type was discovered. And without knowing about orthogastropoda-stub, how would we be expected to use it for stub-splitting in the first place?

Grutness...wha? 04:13, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Point taken Nashville Monkey 04:24, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

As to your point #1 the Stub page is where I got it, after you pointed me to it. Nashville Monkey 04:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. Grutness...wha? 11:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

• With 75+ stubs you've identified, there certainly is a case to be made for a {{gastropod-stub}} if you're willing to take the time populate it. So while {{Mollusc-stub}} is not in dire need of splitting, but there is no problem if as in this case, someone is willing to take the time to populate it. Rather the question is whether going directly to the subclass and bypassing the class is desirable here. Given that the other existing subtype of {{mollusc-stub}} is {{cephalopod-stub}} which is at the class rather than the subclass level, I'd say it would make more sense to start with the class and break that into smaller groups if needed. Given what is already done, I'd recommend making the primary stub here be {{gastropod-stub}} / Cat:Gastropod stubs with {{orthogastropoda-stub}} feeding into Cat:Gastropod stubs as either a redirect of {{gastropod-stub}} or as independent template upmerged to share the same category as its parent until such time as there are enough to stubs to have both {{gastropod-stub}} and {{{orthogastropoda-stub}} be well populated. Given the way the gastropods are organized and their current state of flux in that organization, I'm not certain that breaking up the class at the subclass level instead of the order level if future splitting should be needed (which given the number of gastropod species is certainly a possibility). Caerwine Caer’s whines 04:28, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Okay Caerwine, what do I need to do now? Nashville Monkey 07:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
• I can live with that, too. Grutness...wha? 11:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Since the stub types' creator agrees to the changes, theoretically it can be speedied - but I'll wait a day or so in case there are any objections (if so, make them here!) It just means reversing the redirect, making a new category and deleting the old one. Grutness...wha? 11:27, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

• Hopefully I haven't screwed things up, I've already reversed the redirect and made a new category: {{gastropod-stub}} / Cat:Gastropod stubs so all that is needed will be for {{Orthogastropoda-stub}} /Cat:Orthogastropoda stubs to be deleted. Nashville Monkey 11:32, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
  • No, that's fair enough. The 24 hours was just in case - to be honest, I doubt anyone will object. Grutness...wha? 12:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
• Completely done with the sorting, 188 stubs retagged as "Gastopod-stub" thanks for the patience. Nashville Monkey 19:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
  • S'alright - sorry for grumbling in the first place! The orthogastropoda stubs category's gone now, BTW. Grutness...wha? 04:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
• Is it too soon to get it listed at WP:STUBS? Nashville Monkey 07:55, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Given that the stub has been amended after debate here to something which the members of WP:WSS (or at least those who took part in the discussion) find appropriate as a stub type, I don't see anything wrong with listing it. Go for it :) Grutness...wha? 11:04, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Done deal. Nashville Monkey 16:44, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was send to WP:SFD

Unproposed. Mismatch of category and template names, permcat parent for the category that the template is really named for has only seven articles, so getting the required 60 stubs seems a remote hope, to say the least. What's more, Cat:Hip hop stubs is pretty well split as it is, with no cat or subcat of it with over about 160 stubs. Likely deletion material. Grutness...wha? 23:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry. Prior to this circumstance I was unaware of the proposal policy for stubs. If you truly think there is no need for the stub, then you can delete it, but there are many Christian hip-hop groups on wikipedia, and I am sure that many of them are likely stubs. --Merond e 13:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Empty category. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

A nascent WikiProject's first act - make a stub template. Unproposed, of course, and with all the usual problems associated with state-road-stub naming. Strangely, the edit summary says this was created in lieu of creating a WikiProject page, which makes little sense. Grutness...wha? 23:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

First, I'd like to apologize for not going through the normal proposal protocol. Honestly, this is my first time developing a new WikiProject page, so I wasn't aware of the issue with that. In regards to its usefulness, there are over 100 Delaware State Routes, many of whom, while not created as of yet, will be part of the new WikiProject's job to upkeep and manage. (hence the "in lieu of" statement). See, there is no WikiProject Delaware yet (see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Delaware), and I'm in the process of creating one. Since this type of article would fall under this project's jurisdiction, it would be necessary to identify its place as a stub of our project. Template:Maryland-State-Highway-stub and Template:New-Jersey-road-stub are just a few examples of other State WikiProjects (and sub-projects) having their own stub templates for their highway systems. I just felt it appropriate, seeing as there is none currently in existance, for one to be created for Delaware. If anyone objects, please let me know why. Otherwise, while I once again apologize for not following the correct procedure (and please check my contributions, as this is the first stub template I've ever made) and won't make that mistake again, I definitely feel this temp is warranted and necessary if the WikiProject's to become successful in fulfilling its goal of maintaining all Delaware-related articles. EaglesFanInTampa (formerly Jimbo) 02:40, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I should have said "in prep of"...that was bad grammar on my part, so again I apologize for the confusion. EaglesFanInTampa (formerly Jimbo) 13:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Part of the problem with not knowing the procedures is probably because you made the stub before you made the WikiProject (all the details about coming here first are in {{wikiproject}}). As far as problems with the template, it's just that we have a hotch-potch of state-road-stubs and State-Highway-stubs which we've been trying (without too much success) to rationalise and make into a uniform system. If there are likely to be enough articles (30+, since there's a Wikiproject), there shouldn't be too much of a problem with having some form of stub for Delaware's roads, though you might want to consider a WP-specific talk-page template, since they are often more use to individual wikiprojects. I wondered about the "in prep/lieu of" :) Grutness...wha? 04:34, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Cool; thanks for the understanding and the tips. This WikiProject's just getting underway, so it'll be a little while before we get our act together, but it'll definitely be 30+, so it'll be worth it. And I'll be sure to take your advice about setting up the secondary project. Let's just get off the ground first, though ;-) EaglesFanInTampa (formerly Jimbo) 13:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Links to 1 item, upmerges to Cat:United States road stubs. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:30, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Now links to 53 articles and is nicely upmerged to Cat:Southern United States road stubs. Her Pegship (tis herself) 05:38, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was upmerge

Newly created. never proposed. Considering that Cat:Lingayatism has only 16 articles, there is scant chance of this getting within cooee of threshold. Links into an odd stub category (Cat:Karnataka stubs, rather than a religion one). Grutness...wha? 05:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry. I didnt know there was a process to go through before creating stub templates. Yes, I know there are not many articles at the moment, but potentially there can be many more. Please let me know what the threshold is. Sarvagnya 09:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The usual threshold is 60 currently existing stub articles (see the top of WP:WSS/P). Grutness...wha? 23:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Now contains 11 items; permcat has 17. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:31, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
• Update: Cat:Lingayatism now has 18 articles, 11 of which are in Cat:Lingayatism stubs. I suggest the template be upmerged to Cat:Hinduism stubs. Her Pegship (tis herself) 03:54, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete or upmerge

Newly created, unproposed. Links to a non-existent category (which is named "British" rather than "United Kingdom"). At least there is a reasonable chance of this one reaching threshold, though since Cat:Explorer stubs has only 270 unsubcategorised stubs in total, it'll be a close-run thing. Grutness...wha? 05:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

• The category name is perfectly sensible despite the aversion some here have about using the standard used on the permcats for categories about people. After all it will be child of Cat:British people stubs and of Cat:British explorers. It is way past time we stop the petulant, childish, stub sorting snobbishness of asserting that the permcat conventions are absolutely wrong, but rather than trying to change them, we'll just do things our own way here because we know best. Can this project expect others to adhere to its standards concerning naming when we pointedly refuse to abide by those of the whole Wiki where applicable? Caerwine Caer’s whines 06:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Hm. A couple of points there: Firstly, I did not realise the parent was at British people stubs - I thought it was at united Kingdom people, hence my initial comment. Secondly, as to your other comments, which strike me as a little harsh, may I point out that I am one of several Wikipedians who have been trying to change many of the permcats over. "British" is wrong - it implies that people from Northern Ireland (who are not "British") should not be included. Similarly, "Amerian" is wrong, though in common (incorrect) usage, since it implies that anyone from the Americas can be included, which they clearly cannot. Both United States and United Kingdom are commonly used as adjectival terms as well as noun terms, and there is no reason why these cannot be used for both permcats and stub cats. This is one of several reasons why more and more permcats are changing over to "X of Foo" style as opposed to the older "Fooian X" style. "X of Foo stubs" does not, however, make for a grammatically satisfying name, hence our usage at WP:WSS of Fooian, where this is unambiguous, or simply Foo X where such a term is an acceptable alternative adjectival usage. Grutness...wha? 07:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I am an American, not a United States. I'll grant that using American as an adjective where concepts other than nationality are involved can be ambiguous, but that's not the case for how we generally indicate people. I have no insight as to how the Northern Irish view being considered British other than it's likely tied up in the same idiocy of Unionist/Republican that affects so many other issues there. As for X of Foo stubs it is grammatical, and while needing context to settle the issue of what Foo modifies, I doubt anyone would interpret Explorers of the United Kingdom stubs as a category for Wikipedians who search though the United Kingdom stubs for articles to improve and the same can be said of other stub categories that could potentially use the X of Foo stubs form. Also to my ears is not as grating as using "United Kingdom" as an adjective, which to me sounds like an unnatural effort to find something to use instead of "British" despite the obvious logical parallel with "United States" which would not grate my ears to the same extent. But since we're talking about English and not Loglan, applying rules of logic that would also lead to France musicians, Germany geography, and Asia history instead of French musicians, German geography, and Asian history is off point. Lastly, while I realize now my earlier reply may sound as if it was directed towards you with its somewhat churlish tone, that was not the intent as I had a different target in mind for my churl, but in an attempt at semi-civility, I chose to not include a specific name,tho I suspect the target I had in mind will recognize my intent. Caerwine Caer’s whines 08:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

OK - fair enough about the aim of your comments. As to the N.I. point, I should point out that Great Britain is the island which contains England, Scotland, and Wales, hence the problem with "British". Even unionists might have concerns with that description. And I'd hardly say that you can say that logically you'd need to use France, Germany, etc as adjectives, any more than saying that if you use American and German then you should logically use Britannian and Francan. Since "United States" is an accepted adjectival form - as is, albeit to a lesser extent, United Kingdom - then there's nothing to stop it being used. France and Germany are not used adjectivally in the same way. Let's face it, it's perfectly reasonable to have something named the US Navy or the UK Independence Party, but I'd find it unlikely that you would have the France Air Force or the Germany Football League. Grutness...wha? 09:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Links only to WPSS discussions; still no category. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
• Update: still unused & redlinked. It appears the creator is OK with the possibility of its demise, so I propose we delete it and take up the naming issue when the need arises. Her Pegship (tis herself) 03:58, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

Unproposed - created and populated within the last 24 hours, to the tune of 48 stubs. Possibly useful, though the category needs shaping up (no parents of any type, stub or permcat). Could be useful, though Cat:Bowed-string musician stubs is hardly over-full. A likely keeper, but an upmerge is still plausible. Grutness...wha? 04:06, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

• A definite keep on the template, and I suspect that there will be enough violinists who aren't notable for playing other stringed instruments to make the category a keeper. However a quick look indicates that the creator has been adding rather replacing the bowed-string template to stub articles. No way an article should have both templates. Caerwine Caer’s whines 05:05, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
• Update: Now contains 73 items; keep. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was send to WP:SFD

This rings a faint bell, but I don't see it listed as a stub type, proposal, or discovery... Somewhat under-full. Alai 19:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

If it had been proposed, surely the template would have been made camelcaps like the category? Grutness...wha? 21:44, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Now contains 53 items. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
• Update: and now down to 17 items. Her Pegship (tis herself) 05:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

Isn't listed at WP:WSS/ST. Used a lot. Ignorant of procedure here, so listing and leaving! Splash - tk 21:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

It was proposed, but for some reason it wasn't added to the list when it was finally made. Grutness...wha? 21:52, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was rename

Newly created (unproposed). Possibly useful, but the template will probably need renaming - at the moment it sounds like a very small stub... Grutness...wha? 22:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Stub about nanotechnology . --Altermike 22:58, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

That's my point exactly. So surely it should be nanotech-stub, not nano-stub (which sounds like a very small stub). Grutness...wha? 02:19, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Grut. Also, there is only one article in this category... Altairnano. I'm sure there are plenty of other nanotech stubs out there, already listed as technology stubs, instead. I would suggest that AltairNano should probably be listed under business stubs, as well. This stub category seems like it may be useful, if someone would take the time to hunt for other nanotech stubs (probably not going to be me, however). Also, the picture for the template looks a little screwgy. It needs a size adjustment. Probably a better picture would be C60 (buckminsterfullerene), since the discovery of that compound set off the nanotech industry trend (some businesses have begun to use the nano- prefix even when they are indeed using macro- technology). Fuzzform 21:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Still only contains 1 article. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

There was a debate about splitting fest-stub a while back, to make a separate stub for holidays, but there was no decision taken at the time (partly because the number of separate stubs for holidays and festivals were difficult to extricate from each other). Now someone (well, User: Some thing, actually) has decided to make such a stub. Possibly useful, but we need to be able to ascertain where holidays finish and festivals start. Grutness...wha? 01:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

i made this stub specifically, to aid in the efforts of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Holidays. holidays is a more umbrella term that can be inclusive of festivals but need not be posted on holiday articles that are obviously festivals, in which case one could use the festival stub, IMO.Some thing 09:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

The main problem is with ovewrlap. I agree that splitting holidays out from festivals is a good move, if we can come up wityh some rationale that makes it clear which stubs go in which category. As I said, there was a proposal something to this effect last year, but we never canme up with an easy split IIRC. Grutness...wha? 00:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

“a feast or festival is a set of celebrations” observing a cultural issue, while a holiday or “holy day” is a day of significant meaning. A festival can therefore be as short as an hour and as long as a month but a holiday will always be 24hrs and without necessity for outdoor celebration. The issue here is that holidays are sometimes observed with festivals so the names are used interchangeably. admitting that the majority of popular festivals are in observation of a holiday, i suggest in the case that the word “festival” is in a holiday intro as a central observation of the holiday that the festival-stub takes priority over the holiday-stub. Some thing 23:28, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

further more User talk:Maverick423/Wikiproject:Festivals has attempted to categorize festivals as exclusive of holidays altogether. "Includes Community festivals, State festivals, and National Festivals that are not considered holidays". in this case holiday stub would be given priority. Some thing 13:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Contains 25 items. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
• Update: contains 39 items. Her Pegship (tis herself) 05:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep

One of two unproposed stubs created today by Willow. This one may be useful, if there are the required number of stubs - which is unlikely since there are only 37 articles in Cat:Archaea and its subcats. A more general prokaryote stub might be more useful and more likely to reach a sensible size. Grutness...wha? 01:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

• Every day I'm amazed at the number of processes Wikipedians have managed to create. 'Required number'? Anyway, the MCB and microbiology projects are planning to substantially expand coverage of recognized taxa, so this will probably have many more articles in the near future. Opabinia regalis 03:35, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, required number. You did read WP:STUB, I take it? That mentions that there is a required number, and why. I'd still be inclined to upscope it to prokaryotes. If there will soon be more articles, all well and good - but if they don't eventuate, don't be surprised if this one gets nominated for deletion at some point. Grutness...wha? 05:52, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I'm aware of the general recommendations in that guideline. I suppose we've got our {{shrubbery}} now, but I don't know how it isn't obvious that a group of organisms with their own taxonomic domain ought to have a stub category. Opabinia regalis 01:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, it was either get the shrubbery or have lots of people going "Ni!" Sure, something with its own taxonomic domain deserves a stub type - assuming there are enough stubs. At the time this was brought here, not only were there only a handful of stubs, but there were only a handful of articles in total. It doesn't make sense to have stub categories cut down to unmanageably small sizes, for the sake of editors and for the sake of maintenance. Grutness...wha? 05:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

• Grutness, please let me apologize for having transgressed our community norms. I was innocently unaware of the proposal process; it never occurred to me that there would be a problem with making a much-needed stub. It was not an act of defiance, but of ignorance, and I hope that you will forgive me for it.

There is definitely a need for this stub. I've created Wikipedia pages for 151 Archaea taxa higher than species that are not presently in Wikipedia, which I'm about to start uploading. That falls within the 100-300 limit specified on WP:Stub, right? Once I start creating the archaeal species pages, that number will grow further. This stub fills a significant gap in the presently available taxonomic stubs; aside from the bacteria and the eukaryota, the archaea are the third major branch of life. Willow 06:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

There are now 31 articles tagged with {{Archaea-stub}}, which exceeds the established threshold of 30 articles; this stub is associated with the Microbiology WikiProject. In addition, there are still 20 archaeal families to upload, plus a host of genera and species. I hope that these data satisfy the concerns about the usefulness of this stub-template; thanks! :) Willow 10:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Dear Grutness, there are now 66 articles tagged with {{Archaea-stub}}, which exceeds the higher threshold of 60 articles for stubs that have no sponsoring WikiProject (which is not the case here). Please let me know whether your concerns have been addressed; thanks! :) Willow 20:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, given that there are now plenty of stubs, it seems reasonable to keep this (unless there are any objections). BTW, the 30 for a WikiProject is for a basic stub for that WP (in this case, that would be something like microbiology-stub). But since there are 60, there's no problem with that. Good work, BTW! Grutness...wha? 00:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was send to WP:SFD

The other of Willow's stubs, though, is far less likely to get within cooee of threshold. To be honest, I can't see any use for it at all, so unless there's something I've overlooked, this is potentially SFD material - especially if it is intended to cover what the category says (for any articles with a taxobox), which machetes its way straight through the stub hierarchy. Grutness...wha? 01:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

• Some explanation is in order here, too. I created this stub before I hit upon the idea of making the more specific {{Archaea-stub}}. Its purpose was to give a "catch-all" for taxonomic stubs that weren't covered by other stubs and WikiProjects, rather than using the general {{biology-stub}}. I do not believe that our present taxonomic stubs — even with {{Archaea-stub}} — cover the whole tree of life, so it's convenient for, say, the hundreds of starfish or diatom species not yet in Wikipedia. If you insist on proof to avoid deleting this stub template, I will generate and upload >100 Wikipedia pages on starfish, but I'd much rather finish the Archaea first; will you grant me some time to do that? Thanks very much! :) Willow 06:35, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Starfish would be covered by {{invertebrate-stub}}, and diatoms by {{protist-stub}}. I believe the tree of life is sufficiently well covered by stub categories to enable what remains (if indeed there is anything) to be treated under {{biology-stub}}. --Stemonitis 09:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

• I see the sense of that, Stemonitis, and thanks for alerting me to the appropriate stubs. It'd be helpful for me to know the maximum number of stubs in a category, before that category should be split. For example, suppose that there were roughly 900 starfish stubs sorted under {{invertebrate-stub}}; that might suggest that we should make an {{Echinoderm-stub}}, right? It would be nice if there were fixed quantitative criteria according to which one could make a sub-stub template without having to go through a week-long vetting process. For example, if there are over, say, 200 stubs in a single taxonomic phylum or class, can I assume that I'll be allowed to make a sub-stub template for them? Thanks for your time and thought on the issue, Willow 10:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Most likely, yes, though proposing it first is still recommended, just to see whether a better scope or naming is possible (and it's only five days now, not a week). Often, though, that process will just rubber-stamp anything that's an obvious split. The usual maximum for a category before we really look hard at splitting is about 600 stubs. Above that size and it begins to get difficult for editors to wade through. Having said that, we still have several stub categories well over the 1000 stub mark in the process of being split up. Grutness...wha? 00:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Contains 9 items. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:44, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was upmerge

ISTR some talk about this one, but I'm pretty sure that it was rejected as a possible split, due to the lack of stubs. Yet here it is, created yesterday. Admittedly, excluding orders and medals Cat:Exonumia does have about 320 articles, but the questions remain as to how many of them are stubs and how many of them are already covered elsewhere. Currently has two stubs. Grutness...wha? 05:31, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

• Here's the discussion; there was no consensus, and the category now contains 22 articles. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:47, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
• Now has only 17 items. I suggest we upmerge the template. Her Pegship (tis herself) 06:22, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep

Created a couple months ago, only 21 articles. Eli Falk 13:30, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

• This was proposed and accepted in October. Waacstats 12:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was rename metabolism-stub?

Unproposed, badly named, badly formatted, inappropriate wikiproject message, no category at all. Moderately-well populated, but I'd wonder if it doesn't cut across existing stub types. Then again, all plans to reduce {{biochem-stub}} in size are worth considering... Alai 19:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

It's clearly a subset of the intersection of Cat:Biochemistry stubs and Cat:Cell biology stubs, so I wouldn't mind placing it a child of those two. It marks only 33 stubs at present, but luckily since there is an associated wikiproject it needs only 30, so take this to SFD for renaming and give it an appropriate parentage (including existing permcat Cat:Metabolic pathways). If it weren't for the wikiproject I'd suggest upscoping to Cat:Metabolism stubs, but maybe a discussion with the WP would get them to consider upscoping their project as well. Caerwine Caer’s whines 20:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Links to 32 articles, but still badly named and doesn't link to any category. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:50, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was taken to SfD

Never proposed, some issues with the way the category is formed, but seems quite reasonable, if there are enough stubs 9which at the moment, is still doubtful). Grutness...wha? 06:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Links to 11 items; I have proposed a change at SfD. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

Created one month ago. This template was below the 60 mark, but an editor has given it a distinct category anyway. It is at 45+ so I doubt it is worth the while upmerging it again. Valentinian ^{T / C} 12:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Contains 52 items. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

Unproposed, but probably useful, if there are the required number of stubs, which - judging by Cat:Syria stubs - there may well be. The category will need renaming, though (should be "Syrian people stubs"). Grutness...wha? 04:06, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

• Trust me, there are a lot of stubs for this category. Stub-related work is not my thing, but I created this as part of WP:SY and I believe it is a vital stub category and is used widely in other countries ({{Germany-bio-stub}}, {{Scotland-bio-stub}}). You're right about the category though, I've created another category and tagged this one for speedy deletion. Give it sometime and this category will be filled with stubs. - Anas ^talk? 11:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • OK - I've speedied the earlier one. Be warned, if this doesn't get to a reasonable population in the next couple of months it may yet be proposed for deletion, but I'm pretty sure you're right, there seem to be quite a few Syrian bio-stubs around. Grutness...wha? 12:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Don't worry — I'll make sure it gets populated by tomorrow. Thank you! :-) - Anas ^talk? 12:35, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

It is 70+ now. Keep. Valentinian ^{T / C} 07:53, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was reverse redir or rename

Can anyone here guess what this is for? Why its a stub for British royalty. What's that you say? We already have one? No, we had one. {{UK-royal-stub}} got moved eight months ago to this by a member of Wikiproject British Royalty and left as a redirect. Now to be fair WP:BRoy is in the habit of using BRoy at the start of the templates it uses. But this one violates the naming guidelines for stubs in several ways. By the way, a quick glance indicates that there appear to be enough pre-Jamesian stubs here to warrant an {{England-royal-stub}} if anyone is so inclined. I'll leave Grutness and Alai to fight over the category name if they want, but since the permcats here use British rather than United Kingdom, I'm inclined to leave the category as it is and send this to SFD to be set aright after gently informing BRoy of the alternatives. Caerwine Caer’s whines 01:44, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Contains 179 items. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:52, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was listed

Proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals/2007/March#Juggling. —KNcyu38 (talk • contribs) 06:56, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

...in which case, it's hardly a discovery! Why did you list it here? Grutness...wha? 06:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, um, I thought it was the thing to do. Sorry then. —KNcyu38 (talk • contribs) 15:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

S'alright. This page is for templates and categories discovered by WP:WSS that hadn't been proposed and which need discussing to see whether they need any tidying up. Grutness...wha? 22:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I see. —KNcyu38 (talk • contribs) 01:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was list on WP:STUBS

Unproposed. I almost sfd'd this, thinking it was a duplicate of a stub type we already had. On closer inspection of WP:WSS/ST, though, it looks like geophysics is, surprisingly, an area we haven't a specific stub type for. If this reaches threshold, it will almost certainly be worth keeping - but the category issue certainly needs tidying up - at the moment, it feeds into three categories 9of which two are redlinks) - definite overkill. Grutness...wha? 04:07, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

• Update: Links to 4 articles. Her Pegship (tis herself) 21:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was send to WP:SFD

Presumably this was created as a result of this SFD - my comment "when it gets to [threshold] size, propose [a Frasier-stub] at WP:WSS/P" somehow must have been interpreted as "make a Frasier-stub now!". Needs work - no category of any kind. Grutness...