Template talk:Cite Q

Reminder for title-trans

Just a reminder that as int21h asked on 30 Jan 2022 and I asked on 23 July 2023, it would be nice to be able to use something like literal translation (P2441) so that an article such as d:Q24293504 or d:Q125941907 automatically shows up with the |trans-title= parameter in the en.Wikipedia including the English translation of the title if that is available with P2441, or the equivalent template in ja.Wikipedia shows the Japanese translation in addition to the English original if P2441 is used there (currently Q24293504 using the preferred ranking vs the normal ranking). A temporary workaround is to add |trans-title=Whatever the Translation is as an override in {{cite Q}}. Boud (talk) 22:23, 15 May 2024 (UTC) (use WDP Boud (talk) 17:43, 1 June 2024 (UTC))

I guess for the moment we'll have to stick with the workaround |trans-title=Whatever the Translation is as an override in {{cite Q}} ... Boud (talk) 14:15, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

How do I fix two errors?

Greetings and felicitations. In the article "Egyptian Arabic" two references are generating errors due to the use of this template: Behnstedt, Peter; Woidich, Manfred (2018); and Borg, Gert (2007). Both have the error "{{cite book}}: |journal= ignored". How do I fix this? —DocWatson42 (talk) 13:15, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Convert to regular refs instead of this template? Fram (talk) 13:46, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I could—I was just hoping to fix the root of the problem. :-/ —DocWatson42 (talk) 14:13, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

The root of the problem is that this template started out as an interesting idea but has turned out to have many flaws and nobody willing to write code to fix or work around those flaws. Sometimes you need to use a better-maintained template, like {{cite book}}. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:04, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay. The vast majority of the references in that section use this template, so I was just going to use it. —DocWatson42 (talk) 15:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Best to convert at least Watson, Janet C. E. as well, as the link to the book is, as far as I can tell, a copyright violation link (I see no reason to believe that the uploader has the right to distribute the book like that in any case). Converting all of them would be even better, but might take some time... Fram (talk) 15:33, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

"Converting all of them would be even better, but might take some time..." It did. How does it look now? —DocWatson42 (talk) 07:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Nice work! I removed the remaining Wikidata links, as they didn't add anything, some didn't work anyway, and it is more consistent now. Fram (talk) 08:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. ^_^ I was uncertain about discarding the Wikidata links. Please verify the rest of my work to make certain I didn't make any mistakes. —DocWatson42 (talk) 09:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

That's just your opinion. Cite Q is immensely useful for many reasons. Just because it doesn't do everything doesn't mean we should abandon it. — Jon (talk) 21:19, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't think I wrote any opinions above, except the part about it being an interesting idea. Nor did I say it should be abandoned. I said that sometimes it is an invalid tool for the job, as is true for the citation described above, and other templates need to be used instead. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:58, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

I looked at Behnstedt and Woidich (didn't bother with the other one). {{cite q}} doesn't support citing a chapter qid; see Template talk:Cite Q/Archive 7 § Cite Q chapter broken. You might cite the book qid and then add |chapter=, |chapter-url=, and |doi= parameters or whatever to get what you want.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:20, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

work with template:sfn?

duplicate (closed) discussion at Template talk:Cite Q § work with template:sfn?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:10, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello: Could someone please modify either template:cite Q or template:sfn so they work properly together by default?

See recent edits to Gwendolyn Grant (activist) for examples of the problem.

Thanks, DavidMCEddy (talk) 21:54, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

This is a perennial topic. Please peruse the archives for more information. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:30, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I've fixed {{cite Q...}} so all the links now work. However, I'm getting "{{cite journal}}: |author= has generic name (help)" from:

• CNN Newsource (24 February 2021). "Urban League of Greater Kansas City unveils social justice bus". KMIZ. Wikidata Q126365824. {{cite journal}}: |author= has generic name (help)

I believe if I assigned "CNN Newsource" to the right property, this notice would disappear. However, I've so far been unable to find the right property to which to assign it.

Suggestions? Thanks, DavidMCEddy (talk) 23:32, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

User:ActivelyDisinterested said, "CNN News Source is not a valid author name ... . The correct field in this case would be |agency= but [that is not] supported by Wikidata / Cite Q." I've experimented with assigning "CNN Newsource" to different properties, so far without finding one that makes this complaint disappear.

This is a moderately common occurrence, where a news agency disseminates a story without giving a byline, and a news outlet publishes it. In that case, it seems sensible to specify the news agency as the "author" for the purposes of {{sfn|...}} AND keep both the news agency and the outlet in Wikidata in some way.

Suggestions?

Thanks, DavidMCEddy (talk) 23:47, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

The error is triggered by CNN. CNN is not the author (just as Reuters, Associated Press, etc. are not authors). These entities are agencies so |agency= is the correct {{cite news}} parameter. There is a work around if you really, truly, absolutely must use |author= in {{cite q}}: |author=((CNN News Source)). It would be better to cite the source correctly and avoid such work arounds by expanding the {{cite q}} template (|expand=yes) and replacing the {{cite q}} with a corrected form of the expansion. All of these fiddly bits to fix this and fix that and the attendant wasted time in conversation are just not worth the effort.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:02, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

If a news agency has disseminated a news story without a byline the are the 'agency' not the 'author'. Rather than misusing the author field you can setup the |ref= field in the cite using {{sfnref}}. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 09:10, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Please see also query at d:Wikidata:Project chat#"agency" property? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:05, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Citing pages and referencing bibliography

I am quite faithful to Sfn, it allows both the possibility of citing specific pages as well as producing a shortened reference section which is linked to the bibliography section, as most editors already know. But with Cite Q the same result is not easily achievable. Citing specific pages generates a whole citation in the references, every time, so when you use several pages from the same book, it ends with a polluted reference section. To combine Sfn with Cite Q demands a measure of improvisation. At least this was the situation some months ago, when I tried for the last time. Now I really wanted to ask if there any better solution for this, or if the technical group supporting Cite Q plans to integrate a shortened citation version within the template. JoaquimCebuano (talk) 06:13, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Not really clear about what you are complaining about. To cite multiple pages from the same source using {{cite q}} and {{sfn}}, place the single {{cite q}} template for that source in your §Bibliography, set |ref= as necessary, and in the article body place appropriately paginated {{sfn}} templates wherever they are needed. Done.

Perhaps I don't understand your complaint. If my reply does not answer, please rephrase (providing real-life examples never hurts).

So far as I know, there is no technical group supporting Cite Q so there is no plan.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, i am not well versed in this technical aspect of Wikipedia. So, indeed, using harvid solves the problem, that was what I needed. Yet, as a said, that still quite a improvisation, given that Sfn doesnt 'recognize' Cite Q, if i am being clear. But anyway, thank you very much for the suggestion of using ref=. JoaquimCebuano (talk) 18:23, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Cite Q has SFN support built in. See for example

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

References

Bibliography

J. Currie Elles (1908), The influence of commerce on civilization: the Joseph Fisher lecture on commerce delivered at the University of Adelaide by J. Currie Elles esq., April 23rd, 1908 (1st ed.), Adelaide: W. K. Thomas & Co., Wikidata Q106369892

Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:53, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

The {{sfn}} support is built into Module:Citation/CS1. Use of whole names is not the norm for {{sfn}} which normally renders some number of surnames and a date. This is the WP:CITEVAR complaint because wikdata is (apparently) unable or unwilling to provide surname/given name for authors. Because the norm for {{sfn}} templates is what it is, I suggested using |ref=.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:24, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I believe Trappist means something like this:

Curabitur pretium tincidunt lacus. Nulla gravida orci a odio. Nullam varius, turpis et commodo pharetra, est eros bibendum elit, nec luctus magna felis sollicitudin mauris.

References

Bibliography

J. Currie Elles (1908), The influence of commerce on civilization: the Joseph Fisher lecture on commerce delivered at the University of Adelaide by J. Currie Elles esq., April 23rd, 1908 (1st ed.), Adelaide: W. K. Thomas & Co., Wikidata Q106369892

Does that work for you? Mathglot (talk) 20:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

That's what I just said... Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:11, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Sort of, or at least, halfway there. The specific point of Trappist's I was referring to, was this one:

Use of whole names is not the norm for {{sfn}} which normally renders some number of surnames and a date.

Indeed; which is why in Trappist's example, it shows the full author name, less usual for {{sfn}} and generally not used that way, except to accommodate {{citeq}}, because of Wikidata's apparent limitation. Adding the proper |ref= tag makes it possible to look like usual sfn behavior, last name only (in series, if more than one), plus year. Mathglot (talk) 22:22, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! i understand it now. JoaquimCebuano (talk) 22:31, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Umm, the example is Editor Headbomb's, not mine. I agreed that it 'worked' but will likely violate WP:CITEVAR unless all references in the article follow the first-last name order. If Editor JoaquimCebuano is accustomed to using {{sfn}} with {{cite book}} and that template uses |first= / |last= parameters then the correct way to tweak {{cite q}} is:

{{cite Q|Q106369892|last=Elles|first=J. Currie|date=1908}}

Elles, J. Currie (1908), The influence of commerce on civilization: the Joseph Fisher lecture on commerce delivered at the University of Adelaide by J. Currie Elles esq., April 23rd, 1908 (1st ed.), Adelaide: W. K. Thomas & Co., Wikidata Q106369892 – using |ref=none to suppress distracting multiple target errors.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:46, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

And, including |date=1908 in the {{cite q}} template prevents Module:Footnotes from emitting a false-positive sfn error: no target: ... error message.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:58, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Oh, now it works, the problem was that I was using just the last name, as I am used to do with cite book, it needs the whole name of the authors. Sorry for the confusion and thank you! JoaquimCebuano (talk) 22:29, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

@JoaquimCebuano:, either the whole name, or just the last name plus |ref=, as in the shaded example, which I prefer, because it is more consistent with other usage. You may use either one. Mathglot (talk) 22:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC)