Talk:2017 Marathon County shootings/Archive 1

Archive 1

Notability

@32.218.33.250: Hi. Thanks for your template, which I specifically ask users not to post on my talk page. I removed your template because the incident received significant attention in both local and regional papers. As I alluded to in my edit summary, if notability was a concern, it would have been expressed in the AfC, which it was not. Please do not post templates on my talk page. Etzedek24 ^{(Would it kill ya to leave an edit summary?)} 19:02, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Please see my responses in italic. Etzedek24 ^{(Would it kill ya to leave an edit summary?)} 19:51, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

• Notability requires "significant coverage". Limited coverage that is primarily local is not significant.

As I've said both in my reversion and here on the talk page, coverage was statewide and appeared in a regional paper of record as well. This was more than a murder that only the local paper reported on.

• "Notable topics have attracted attention over a sufficiently significant period of time." "Brief bursts of news coverage may not sufficiently demonstrate notability."

Significant coverage past the initial incident exists, including reaction from state officials, and coverage of statements from victim's families.

• Being in the news for a short period of time does not confer notability. "Even a large number of news reports that provide no critical analysis of the event is not considered significant coverage."

The Wausau newspaper published a lengthy piece on the family's domestic trouble leading up to the attack.

• "An event must receive significant or in-depth coverage to be notable."

This is a redundant criticism.

• "Notable events usually receive coverage beyond a relatively short news cycle."

This criticism is vague, as there is no commonly-agreed amount of time that constitutes a news cycle. It also is redundant given your comment above.

It's Wikipedia policy, as are all the other quoted policies. Why don't you learn something about Wikipedia policy on notability before offering your personal opinion? 32.218.33.250 (talk) 20:48, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

• "Significant national or international coverage is usually expected for an event to be notable."

The event received syndicated national and international coverage.

• Notability isn't conferred through one person's opinion at AfC. It's conferred by a consensus of Wikipedia's editors. So why don't you try to obtain that consensus? 32.218.33.250 (talk) 19:22, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

It's a new article. I'd appreciate it if you didn't be so standoffish and suggested ways to improve it rather than waving notability policies in my face.

Do you even know what "standoffish" means? Trying to adhere to Wikipedia policies is hardly "standoffish". Or perhaps you're one of those people who think that anyone who disagrees with them is a jerk? You won't get very far in Wikipedia with that attitude. 32.218.33.250 (talk) 20:48, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Instead of spending your time in namecalling, why don't you try to achieve consensus on the notability of this article? 32.218.33.250 (talk) 20:48, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

I understand both sides of the argument. Those national and international pieces prove notability to me, but they just need to actually be used in the article. After that, I'd say that it'd be okay to remove the GNG tag. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:00, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

I have added in the specified sources, and would like to note that the existing source re: the lengthy interview with the shooter's wife was syndicated nationally though USA Today. Etzedek24 ^{(Would it kill ya to leave an edit summary?)} 21:18, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

In the interest of avoiding future spats over this article, I'd like to bring in a snippet from WP:BRICKS: "...policies and guidelines are not the law and do not need to be ruthlessly enforced." Etzedek24 ^{(Would it kill ya to leave an edit summary?)} 21:23, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

You need to learn the difference between an essay and a policy. 32.218.33.250 (talk) 21:57, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

I am aware of the difference. It is just a helpful reminder. Please stop patronizing me. Since I have added news sources national in scope, I feel that the GNG tag can be removed re @NotTheFakeJTP:'s comment. Etzedek24 ^{(Would it kill ya to leave an edit summary?)} 22:02, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

A single article does not confer notability. A single opinion agreeing with the creator of the article is not a consensus and does not confer notability. Have a little patience and wait for others to join the discussion. 32.218.33.250 (talk) 22:07, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

If you're so hellbent on contesting the notability, then PROD it or take it to AfD. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:29, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

• A note that crime articles are usually contested based on WP:NOTNEWS. NOTNEWS allows deletion of articles even when they meet WP:GNG. It is currently one of the most vague and controversial grounds for deletion on the encyclopedia. SeraphWiki (talk) 22:42, 15 January 2018 (UTC)