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Reform is more than simply 'Right-wing' as listed under Political position / infobox

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I do not think there is sufficient evidence in the article, to describe Reform UK as a 'Right-wing' party in the infobox.

'Right-wing' by itself suggests that they are a mainstream party, similar to the Conservatives, Liberal Democrats or the Labour Party.

I don't think they should be called right-wing, seemingly because this is the safest description for them to be given. 92.13.122.219 (talk) 00:48, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The debate over what political position they should be described as has been had numerous times before in this talk page. It is the consensus that as most major UK news publications and other sources describe the party as "Right-wing" that this is correct position for the wiki page. DontForgetJeff (talk) 05:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What about right wing to far right? GothicGolem29 (talk) 18:57, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Their policy on immigration (Freeze on 'non-essential' immigration) is more than simply 'Right-wing'.
Additionally, Reform UK wants the UK to Leave the European Convention on Human Rights. This is a viewpoint shared with some of the most right wing members of the Conservative Party.
Seemingly, policies do not seem to play a role in deciding what a political party should be described as. 92.13.122.219 (talk) 23:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree those policies are more than just right wing yeah. I would not be against labelling them as far right but since right wing-far right covers that and the other opinons I also think that would be a good option if agreement cant be found on far right GothicGolem29 (talk) 00:44, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These arguments are WP:OR; we don't make interpretations of their policies to label them. — Czello (music) 09:06, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My original point still stands (I am 92.13.122.219) - There is insufficient information and evidence, to characterise Reform as just 'Right-wing' in the info box.
The Wikipedia article lists a single reference, as evidence that Reform UK is a right-wing party, as follows:
https://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-farage-new-party-ron-desantis-white-house-hopeful-land-uk/
I would have thought the Wikipedia editors would put more work into researching Reform UK, which is still a relatively new political party (formed as the Brexit Party in November, 2018).
Reform UK's leader was previously the leader of UKIP, which the article lists Reform UK as a split from. There is little debate about the political position of UKIP, in the Wikipedia article. 78.147.20.190 (talk) 17:48, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to add that Cas Mudde (Professor of International Affairs) has written an article (titled 'Democracy is in a doom spiral—but it isn’t dead yet') for Prospect Magazine, pointing out that Reform UK is not a mainstream UK party. In a chart titled 'Shifting the Dial', Mudde compares Reform UK to other political parties around the world, such as the Freedom Party (Austria) and National Rally (France) - Most of which have both seen large increases in vote share at elections in 2024. The chart is labelled as 'Change in vote share for far-right parties in parliamentary elections, %'. He clearly states that Reform UK is neither a mainstream, or typical right-wing party in his article.
The article can be accessed here:
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/democracy/68694/democracy-doom-spiral-elections 80.44.57.137 (talk) 02:18, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have suggested this many times, and come to a general consensus, many times.
However many people (Who i suspect have a CoI) stop the change being made. I am honestly sick of this, as bias has no place in edits. Jaybainshetland (talk) 18:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly Agree
I agree, and I am honestly getting very bored of this.
We have had this discussion many times, and came to a general conclusion many times, but it never gets done. I suspect this is because of people opposing despite multiple sources that are able to prove that it should be changed. Jaybainshetland (talk) 18:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the Ideology and platform section of the article there are numerous sources that support the consensus of it being described as Right-wing DontForgetJeff (talk) 17:12, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't actually. In the Ideology and platform section here:
It says that:
"The British politics professor Matthew Goodwin described the party as national populists, while Goodwin and others have also described the Brexit Party as neoliberal, populist, right-wing populist, right-wing nationalist, and radical right."
None of these say that it is just a right wing party. It's poorly defined in this section.
In the next paragraph of this section, there is a source which describes Reform UK as a far-right party:
"In January 2024, the French newspaper Le Monde described Reform UK as a far-right party." 80.44.57.137 (talk) 22:10, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The political position part of the infobox allows for a quick and easy way to determine the position of the party on the Left to Right axis. The ideologies section allows for the more complex descriptions of the parties positions. I think that this thread is trying to over complicate things. If you want more ideologies to be added to the infobox go ahead and discuss that but the consensus is that Right-wing is used by most media in the UK and internationally. The academic sources in the section I mentioned suggest that the party is Right-wing. Right-wing populism is then in the ideologies section of the infobox. I may support some additions in the ideology section if they are well founded but I will not support this if this is just another attempt to get Far-right added onto the infobox despite at least two publications, that I know of, retracting this description of the party the BBC being one of them. DontForgetJeff (talk) 01:47, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Le Monde doubles down on it's previous claim that Reform UK is a far-right party in this (paywall free) article here:
https://archive.is/2r7Ue
No retractions made in this case. So, the Wikipedia article appears to be a bit out of date, regarding Le Monde.
A New York Times article describes Reform UK's leader (Nigel Farage) as a:
"veteran political disrupter, ally of Donald J. Trump and hard right, anti-immigrant activist". Article here:
https://archive.is/v8x6p 80.44.57.137 (talk) 06:13, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On the 2nd of July, The Guardian published an article describing Reform UK as Hard-right.
"A second Reform UK candidate has quit the hard-right party, alleging that the vast majority of those standing for it in the general election are “racist, misogynistic and bigoted”.
Link:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/02/second-reform-candidate-quits-over-racism-and-misogyny 80.44.57.137 (talk) 21:34, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An article published in The Guardian describing Reform UK's party conference in September 2024, says the following:
"A sequence of the speeches took on a populist and hard-right tone, with some echoing far-right conspiracies".
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/20/nigel-farage-tells-reform-supporters-they-can-win-next-general-election 80.44.57.137 (talk) 22:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In many other articles in June and July 2024, The Guardian have referred to Reform UK as a hard-right party, including:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/04/reform-party-on-brink-of-seismic-breakthrough-after-exit-poll-predicts-up-to-13-seats
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/11/europe-right-immigration-britain-nigel-farage-rishi-sunak
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/08/from-humiliation-to-annihilation-could-this-election-mean-the-end-of-the-tory-party-as-we-know-it 80.44.57.137 (talk) 23:24, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, are there likely to be any changes made, as we head into 2025?
The content grade for the article is quite low (despite the increased importance of Reform UK as a political party), and clearly there's lots of room for additions to the main Reform UK page. 89.240.68.107 (talk) 22:30, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would not use The Guardian as a reliable source for anything. They label everything they don't like as far right, hard right or alt-right. Nreive (talk) 18:36, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia considers The Guardian as a reliable source of information, please correct me if that’s wrong.
Page here:
The Guardian 2.100.158.28 (talk) 22:32, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reform UK gained 4,117,610 (14.3%) of the votes at the 2024 general election and have since set up a branch structure covering 450 constituencies. As at today (23rd December 2024) they have just over 120,000 members and five members of parliament.
The party has appointed a chairman and recently a treasurer and is amassing a considerable amount of funds both from individual membership fees and individual donations.
To describe them as “not a mainstream party” is frankly ignorant. C R Munday (talk) 09:23, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For one thing, they are lead by Nigel Farage, who has made a career from attacking status quo politicians, and institutions such as the EU. But, we are getting into the realm of opinions, with the comment you made, especially because there are so few sources who would describe the fledging Reform UK party as part of the political mainstream.
Getting lots of money from party donations is neither here, nor there. 2.100.158.28 (talk) 11:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Correction — fledgling. 2.100.158.28 (talk) 11:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Mr. 2.100.158.28., according to numerous polls and local elections, Reform UK are up there with Labour and Conservatives, beating both in some cases. You may not like them but Reform have arrived... Nreive (talk) 18:47, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Them arriving doesn't really affect if they are right wing or far right tbh GothicGolem29 (talk) 02:57, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the British electoral system, the Liberal Democrats, and before that the Liberal Party have held the 3rd or 2nd place in terms seat count. And general elections are ultimately what count, because they show broad support for a party, across the UK.
Reform gained 5 seats in the July 2024 general election (less than 1% of the total 650 seats), compared to the election in 2019. The Liberal Democrats gained 64, and holds a total 72. 2.100.158.28 (talk) 22:46, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which is why the Lib Dems are typically described as a mainstream party by the media. In addition to their relative success in local elections. 2.100.158.28 (talk) 22:49, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seat count can show strong support in specific areas, if vote share/count is low. Vote share/count nationwide can show if a party has broad support.Halbared (talk) 23:18, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would add a small correction that before this election the SNP held the third party spot GothicGolem29 (talk) 23:35, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Or they did from the 2015 general election till the 2024 general election GothicGolem29 (talk) 23:37, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How come page is locked?

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. 82.17.69.176 (talk) 23:37, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Persistent vandalism and addition of unsourced content. — Czello (music) 11:53, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Help, accidentally broke a citation

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Hi there, please could someone help me direct citation number 6 to https://www.reformparty.uk/

I tried to do this but accidentally broke it. Many thanks C R Munday (talk) 14:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The people in the membership number

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I Updated the membership number to the number and put the Reform membership tracker as a source but I am not sure who the people were above the old article. Should they be removed or kept? GothicGolem29 (talk) 20:22, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I said in one of my edit summaries - "A live membership counter on the party's website is going to ever change. Let's wait for a credible third-party source to give a new set number." Third-party sources also take precedence over third-party ones due to reliability. Helper201 (talk) 20:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I said above The Telegraph has reported on the membership change GothicGolem29 (talk) 20:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I added the updated number but from the telgraph this time reporting on it GothicGolem29 (talk) 20:38, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also wont first party sources be more reliable due to being from the party who have first access to membership numbers? GothicGolem29 (talk) 20:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No per WP:PRIMARY. There's no way to know it's verified. — Czello (music) 10:07, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok fair enough. So no primary sources unless a third party source reports on the prmiary source GothicGolem29 (talk) 13:31, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The people who report their membership numbers are the party themselves. A third party source will report only what the party tells them. Only the party has access to their own membership numbers.
unless I’ve missed something. C R Munday (talk) 20:03, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the outlets are reporting on what the party says but as per Wikipedia:PRIMARY it has to be a reliable source reporting on the ticker or other announces for the Wikipedia page GothicGolem29 (talk) 23:32, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From what ive heard from the person above in this discussion I think its because without a third party we don't know if its verified. But if they report it I guess that counts as verification GothicGolem29 (talk) 23:34, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is potentially pointless - but the rules are the rules! I've updated numbers to 136k based on a pay-walled story in the telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/12/26/reform-uk-overtakes-conservatives-as-membership-swells/ C R Munday (talk) 23:58, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have read through this article multiple times and it states multiple numbers but the highest one is a screenshot showing 134,832 not 136k. GothicGolem29 (talk) 00:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the article it states: "Mr Farage was supporting the Elham Boxing Day hunt in Kent when Reform’s online tracker put the number of members at 131,712 surpassing the last known Tory total of 131,680. By Thursday evening it was showing almost 136,000 members."
In addition, the ticker on the Reform UK website now reads 137,229 at the time of writing. So these are both sources required.
As mentioned, the only people who know membership numbers of political parties are the parties themselves. Third-party sources report what they are told. There is no other way of verifying this, so unless we remove membership numbers for all parties from Wikipedia completely, we must use the information we are given by each political party (and where necessary to comply with the rules, as you mentioned in a comment earlier "a reliable third-party reporting on the ticker", such as the Telegraph which I have linked). C R Munday (talk) 01:21, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah I see the number now thanks GothicGolem29 (talk) 09:20, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

“Split from UKIP”

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The info box states Reform split from UKIP.

I think this is incorrect as Reform UK did not split directly from UKIP, it was borne out of the Brexit party (which did).

I think it’s important to consider these parties as separate entities considering the Brexit Party was single-issue in its campaign for a no-deal Brexit whereas Reform are both multi-issue and a mainstream political party.

Wondering if we could debate this and achieve a consensus. C R Munday (talk) 18:06, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reform Uk is the Brexit party rebranded to Reform after Brexit was acheived. So if the Brexit party was a split from UKIP I think its fair to say Reform split from it GothicGolem29 (talk) 18:48, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Farage said that Reform UK has the same policies as UKIP, so I think it is accurate from that perspective, to describe them as a split from UKIP. 2.100.158.28 (talk) 23:50, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just read on the electoral comm website that the Brexit party changed its name to Reform. I was under the impression it was a completely new registration. C R Munday (talk) 01:32, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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