Talk:British queen mothers

Comments

Is this worthwhile as a separate page from Dowager Queens? For instance, we note that there was only one Lancastrian queen mother. This is true, but there was an additional Lancastrian dowager Queen, Queen Joan. john k 22:46, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Presumtive or presumptive - that's the question. Sorry, I'm a Wikipedian, but only in the German Version. Not here.

--Andrea1984 12:06, 07. Juni 2006 (CET)

The word is presumptive, never presumtive. FearÉIREANN\^{(caint) 18:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)}

The spelling was altered again, with edit comment "German Version: Presumtive". I can't believe that "Presumtive" is a German word, but even if it were, this is an article on the English Wikipedia about the British Royal Family.--Poetlister 17:15, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

There is an edit comment that a German book spells the word "presumtive". Is this a book in English written and published in Germany? If so, it is scarcely surprising that it contains a spelling error. No English or American dictionary that I have consulted contains this spelling. The same editor proposes omitting the passage containing the word. Why? It is relevant information.--Poetlister 22:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I had changed the sentences - about the Queen Mother, Sophia of Hannover (1630-1714) - without the word presumtive. Is this allright ?

Yes, presumtive is a German Word. I read it in many German books about Royal Familys, not only about the Royals in Great Britain.

--Andrea1984 14:43, 02. November 2006 (CET)

The point is that the word is "presumptive," not "presumtive". As far as I can tell, "presumtive" is not a German word. See Leo here and here. What in the world is going on here? john k 13:23, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Here is a German defination for the word presumtiv: "Das Adjektiv präsumtiv steht für mutmaßlich. Unter anderem bezeichnet präsumtiv das voraussichtliche Entwicklungsvermögen eines Keimteils."

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pr%C3%A4sumtiv

I take it from the German Wikipedia Version. Sorry, that the text is not translated in english. I speak and read this language, but not very good.

--Andrea1984 14:25, 02. November 2006 (CET)

Then maybe you shouldn't be trying to tell us how to spell our words. I don't know if "präsumtiv" is a word in German (it's not in Leo, which makes me dubious), but I do know that the word in English is "presumptive." What's the issue here? john k 13:52, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It is a German word [1] and according to that reference the translation is presumptive. I fail to see how the existence of a German word "präsumtiv" means that we need to change the spelling of an English word.--20.138.246.89 14:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. john k 15:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

You know, präsumtiv is a German Word. And I unterstand, that it not existist in the english language. So I want to remove this word from the article, to stop the discussion.

--Andrea1984 16:21, 02. November 2006 (CET)

For god's sake stop this. "Presumptive" is an English word. You don't even speak English. Go away and stop messing with this article. john k 15:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Note that if you revert again you will have reverted four times, and will be blocked. john k 15:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I think, I speak english better than you German. I passed the A-Level with a C. That's a good mark.

I can revert, what I want. It's not forbidden in this version. But I think it's better, to change the "bad" word in another, to stop the discussion.

--Andrea1984 16:35, 02. November 2006 (CET)

What does German have to do with anything? Who cares how well I speak German? (not very well, but a little, is the answer, if you're interested) There is an English word "presumptive." Sophia was the "heiress presumptive" of England during the reign of Queen Anne. This is a perfectly usual English word. Where does German comes into it at all? Why are you insisting on removing a perfectly acceptable English word from this article? I have absolutely no idea what your issue is. There is no "discussion" here, except your strange crusade against the word "presumptive." This all makes no fucking sense whatsoever. john k 16:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I apologize for being a horrible person and using a very, very naughty word. john k 17:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Anyone in any doubt as to whether "presumptive" is an English word, can check a dictionary. "heir presumptive" is a set phrase with a specific meaning: and is defined here by that same dictionary Morwen - Talk 13:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be Queens Mother

Isn't the main noun 'Queen', a former Queen Consort, nonetheless still a 'Queen' who is mother to the current Sovereign. 'Mother' seems to be the modifier, and Queen seems to be the noun. Eddo 18:26 , 7 December 2006 (UTC)

An interesting argument, but I think that we have to go by general usage. I can't find any example of the phrase "Queens mother" in this sense (as opposed to say a mother living in the borough of Queens, New York).--Poetlister 22:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Ooh! Oooh! Grammar nerd alert!

Poetlister is right. The construction Eddo appears to be thinking of is the one that produces such delights as "courts martial" & "mothers-in-law". "Mother" is the modifier, but it's a noun, not an adjective, and thus can create the plural as it stands, "Queen Mothers" (the only similar example I can think of is "lieutenant governors"). If the title was "Queen Maternal", it would be "Queens Maternal", but that would sound sillier than titles do normally. Pointless grammar lesson over, Parce out. --Parcequilfaut 03:10, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Pasted from Queen Mother discussion page in the hope of getting a response.

I've done a Google Book search, and found a much stronger case for "Queen Mothers" than "Queens Mother" - see The Literary Digest History of the World War, p. 289, "Two Queen mothers on whom President Wilson called while in Europe in 1918"; Henry B. Wheatley, Peter Cunningham, London Past and Present: Its History, Associations, and Traditions, p. 271, "They passed that building which of old Queen Mothers were designed to hold"; Elna K. Solvang, A Woman's Place is in the House, p. 85, "Information about the deeds of the kings—and possibly the deeds of the queen mothers—is said to be found in the Annals of the Kings". Per Wikipedia convention to go with the most widely accepted title, I will change it back unless someone would like to produce evidence to the contrary. Cheers! bd2412 T 20:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

A Title?

If this (Queen Mother) is in fact a title, then it must befall automatically or be awarded. For example, Prince Charles, despite his birth, did not assume the title of Prince of Wales until his mother awarded it when he was about 9 or 10. (The investiture happened some years later.) Likewise, Princess Anne was not automatically called the Princess Royal upon the death of her great-aunt, the previous Princess Royal.

I have not read the reference to the Duchess of Kent (Victoria's mother) claiming the title Queen Mother. I, too, was under the impression that the name was used for Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother in order to distinguish her from her daughter, Queen Elizabeth II.

There is, in the article, Queen Mother a list of Queens who, it is claimed, used the title Queen Mother. As none of these queens is English, then, if this is indeed the case, every one of them used a non-English variant of the name. Whatever they called themselves, it was not "Queen Mother". So the titles in their original languages ought to be shown.

Were these titles in fact Queen Mother in the English sense, implying wife of a deceased reigning monarch whose child has ascended the throne (if in fact this is the correct definition)? Or is the title actually closer in meaning to "King's mother" or "Reigning Queen's mother"?

(I make the distinction here because the wife of a King is titled "Queen" but the husband of a reigning Queen is not titled "King". eg Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg (Victoria's husband) and Prince Philip of Greece (Elizabeth II's husband). In this case both were princes in their own right.)

If the "title" Queen Mother exists in England, then what I want to know is this- who, if anybody, before the mother of the present queen, actually used the title? If the title exists, then there were three claimants to it, within the 20th century. Queen Alexandra upon the death of her husband Edward VII and the succession of George V, Queen Mary upon the death of her husband George V and accession of her son Edward VIII and subsequent accession of George VI and Queen Elizabeth upon the death of her husband George VI and accession of her daughter Elizabeth II. The fly in the ointment here is that Queen Mary was alive at the time that her son George VI died. Had she been the Queen Mother (which by present definition, she was) then her daughter-in-law Queen Elizabeth could not be the Queen Mother.

My understanding of this situation is that Queen Mary was generally referred to, in the reign of her sons, as Queen Mary. Formally, she was the Dowager Queen. Elizabeth (Queen Mother) would also have been a Dowager Queen. This is not an hereditary title and there is no reason why there cannot be any number of dowager queens simultaneously. However, it was necessary to distinguish between Queen Mary, the Dowager Queen; Queen Elizabeth, the Dowager Queen and Queen Elizabeth. So Queen Elizabeth (wife of the late George VI) was called the Queen Mother. The title was probably subject to a Royal Decree like the decrees which made Charles the Prince of Wales and Anne the Princess Royal.

This article reads, to me, like unsubstantiated extension of a single fact- that the Mother of the present Queen of England was known as the Queen Mother. If any other part of this article is factual, then the things that need citing are:-

1. the decree, statement or news report of such a statement that made Queen Elizabeth II's mother the Queen Mother.
2. evidence that the title existed or was in common parlance in England before that date (which is the implication of this article).
3. evidence as to whether the title is simply honorary like "Dowager Queen" or whether it must be awarded.
4. evidence that the Duchess of Kent (Victoria's mother) actually claimed the title "Queen Mother". My suspicion is that she did not claim the title of Queen Mother but did claim the title of "Dowager Queen". This was a title which did indeed exist and would make sense of the un-cited information on this page.
5. evidence as to what all the listed so-called "Queen Mothers" from non-English-speaking countries were actually called and precisely what the term implied in the language of the people who called them by that name.

NOTE: I have never read of this title applied to any English Queen except Elizabeth, Queen Consort of George VI upon the accession of her daughter.

--Amandajm 05:25, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

placed here--Amandajm 09:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with you. There is no evidence that anyone other than the mother of The Queen Elizabeth II has ever born the title "Queen Mother." Wikipedia articles using the term "Queen Mother" as a title need to be cleaned up. Several Wikipedians have taken to listing any widowed Queen as a "Queen Mother" without reference and for countries where the term is completely alien. A widowed Queen in the United Kingdom automatically becomes a Dowager Queen, however, this may or may not become part of her offical title.

HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother is the only person who should factually be listed as a "Queen Mother" all other widows should be listed as a "dowager queen" with reference to her status, however, we should not at any time include this as part of their title (even after widowhood) if it was never used offically. E.g. HM Queen Mary was only ever HM Queen Mary after the death of her husband.

It is my understanding that the Late Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother only became styled as such because there were 3 living queens at the time one of whom, her daughter, was also "Queen Elizabeth." It should point out that it was offically annouced that she was to be styled as HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother - this was not left to speculation.

I have never seen any offical references to any other women in history prior to Queen Elizabeth The QM holding this distinction. A vague reference to Samuel Pepys referring to the mother of King Charles II as "Queene Mother" to be an offical or historical title. I am 100% certain that Samuel Pepys was not a 'fons honorum' and that his use or misuse of the the distinction in no way makes it accurate.

Styles and titles should be fully sourced. Any women who we can not provide verification for the offical use of the styling of "Queen Mother" should not be referenced as such, and it should not be included in the articles about such women. The use of Queen Mother as a title, style or distinction should not appear in articles about such women as Queen Alexandra, Queen Mary, Queen Noor al-Hussein, or Queen Ingrid of Denmark. These women never bore the title or distinction of being a "Queen Mother" offically or unoffically during their widowhood. We need to have citation from an offical source not a tabloid or newspaper that lists them as such. If the office of King Abdullah were to begin referrring to Queen Noor as Queen Mother then we could list it but until then it is really inaccurate. She remains styled as HM Queen Noor al-Hussein by the Royal Court and the government. Queen Ingrid remained offically styled as HM Queen Ingrid until her death, ect...

I have trouble with wikipedia using the distinction, title and style of Queen Mother for anyone who was a dowager. As a purported object of reference material Wikipedia should refrain from creating it's own list of Queen Mothers for women who were only ever Dowager Queens most of whom weren't even styled as Dowager.

Most non-English speaking countries have an offical title that they use in the English language. Japan, Jordan, ect... We should respect their usage of their own titles. Where they do not translate their titles we should not either. Often there is no title in English that can convey their title, rank, style or postion.

I move that "Queen Mother" should be removed from articles of women who did not actually hold this distinction. Additionally, the distinction of Queen Mother should not be used interchangeably with Dowager Queen. Wikipedia is not a fons honorum and contributors should not insert this information where it cannot be verfied as an offical title or designation for each specific person. This only serves to perpetuate the popular belief that Wikipedia cannot be trusted as accurate. 76.105.150.19 11:23, 19 August 2007 (UTC) Queen Brandissima brandy.kelley@gmail.com

But we have the definition of queen mother, so maybe we should carefully edit such that "Queen Mother", with capitals, as an official title, appears only regarding EBL – leaving the rest as merely "queen mother"? DBD 21:02, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

At one stage I was in possession of a book, published in Canada in 1937 to commemorate the coronation of George VI, that definitely referred to Queen Mary as the Queen Mother in the caption of a photograph of Queen Mary. Unfortunately I no longer have the book but perhaps someone could look it up. It would have been the early part of 1937 that it was published since it was clearly after the abdication but before the coronation. Sorry I can't offer more tangible evidence but I am quite certain that Queen Mary was referred to as Queen Mother at least once.--Dash77 00:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I've never seen Queen Mary as Queen Mother. Do you have the name or author of the book and I could find the ISBN and check it out? Was it the sort of book that could be used as a reference or was it the type of thing that are put out by authors looking to make a buck in the market for souveniers?

I'm not certain but this book may well be the one that I previously owned:

London-Canada Coronation Souvenir 1937

The description of the book matches everything that I recall. If it is indeed the book I was in possession of, there is a rather elegant photo of Queen Mary in there with a caption referring to her as the Queen Mother. Yes, the author may have been trying to make a buck in producing a souvenir but if the term Queen Mother was used in 1937, even in a very commercial context, it would seem proof positive that the term Queen Mother did not originate with QEQM.

Clearly the term Queen Mother is associated with QEQM in a way that it was never associated with any widow of a King before. I believe Queen Mary preferred to be called HM Queen Mary rather than Queen Mother so that is probably why the term did not take hold after 1937. That being said, I believe QEQM also preferred to be called HM Queen Elizabeth. Technically speaking this was sufficient to identify QEQM uniquely as the current sovereign would properly be called The Queen or HM Queen Elizabeth II. But there was obviously great potential for confusion so I think QEQM took hold as a title despite the objections of the holder of said title.

It doesn't seem very common for mothers, royal or commoner, to give their daughters the same first name. It is much more common for fathers and sons. I presume it happened in this case since in 1926 QEQM was known as the Duchess of York and wanted to keep the name Elizabeth active, so to speak, in naming her daughter. Had she known she would become Queen Consort she would surely have picked a different name for her daughter. Hence the confusion, the common use of the term QEQM, and QEQM's own discomfort with the term (she never forgave the Duke or Duchess of Windsor).--Dash77 22:35, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Where did the definition of "queen mother" come from? The only reference cited is the Webster's Third New International Dictionary which was only published in June 2002. Do any previous additions of the OED include the this definition? Is it included in editions prior to the use of the style by QEQM or was it only included after her? If it was included only after she began using the style I'm not sure we can classify that as a historical reference for the prior existance of the use of Queen Mother as a title or even a designation that simply referred to the mother of a Queen/King.

I searched the London Gazette archives and was provided with the following issues: 9157, 11 April 1752; 9147, 7 March 1752; 9132, 14 January 1752 that cannot possibly relate to QEQM.

However, the archive is currently down so I cannot view the actual articles to is if these are merely included because of the combination queen and mother or if they are mentions of 'queen mother' as an offical style or a designation for a previous queen. The issues listed that aren't realted to QEQM are all 1752 and could only apply to the mother of George III who was never Queen. I will check the archive frequently to see when it comes back up (it was just online an hour ago). If this does turn out to be a reference to 'queen mother' it would be a good source for the historical existance and usage of 'queen mother.'

I am certain that no other Queen since the Hanovarian dynasty has been styled as Queen Mother other than QEQM. I understand that logically she couldn't be styled as Queen Mary and Queen Alexandra were during their widowhood because she shared the same name as The Queen.

I do agree that the article should be edited so that it does not imply that anyone was offically using the style Queen Mother or Dowager Queen if there is no evidence of this.

I also think that it's a good idea that Queen Mother and Dowager Queen should not be used for countries where one or both have no modern or historical usage. E.g. Jordan has never used either as a title or description of a widowed Queen.

Thailand does have a title that in English is offically translated as "The Princess Mother." Somdej Ya the late wife of the late Prince Mahidol Adulyadej was the mother of King Rama VIII and King Bhumibol. That is the only non-British usage of any title that I know of that makes any distinction for the mother of a King/Queen. 76.105.150.19 05:37, 20 August 2007 (UTC) Queen Brandissima

I found some historical references to the title Queen Mother being used. However, this is only for one person (not QEQM). I found references to 'The queen-mother' in the biography of The Duke of Sully who was Prime Minister to King Henry III. This particular copy was published in 1877 and was a revision. The entire book can be viewed at http://books.google.com/books?id=MO4sAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=1577+queen+mother&source=web&ots=Ai7s7xGWTj&sig=EbcXQWwLg_rzt4yqEstO8Em63v4#PPR7,M1

Additionally, I found reference to "The Queen Mother" in The Cambridge Modern History published in 1905. However, this information is also about the same 'queen-mother' that is referred to in the bio of the Duke of Sully. This book may be viewed at http://books.google.com/books?id=Pa8LKfiJIXYC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=the+peace+of+monsieur&source=web&ots=K6BMLs1-FY&sig=Q922-e2X1StSOO3Nupj454KJFgE#PPR13,M1

The original claim that 'queen mother' has been used since 1577 is probably relating to The Peace of Bergerac and the Peace of Monsieur.

The Queen Mother in these books appears to be Marie De Medicis widow of Henry IV of France and regent for her son Louis XIII. I assume 'queen mother' is the English translation of what her French title was. Though, I cannot find a reference to what that may have actually been. I'm not certain that Queen Mother would have been the actual translation. There also are references to Catherine de Medicis as 'queen mother.'

It seems plausible that Queen Mother first came to being as the English translation for a French title. 76.105.150.19 07:44, 20 August 2007 (UTC)Queen Brandissima

I agree with amandajm Dash77 above. Other than QEQM, this needs official reference or articles should be corrected accordingly. There's been too much hogwash on Wikipedia. Bobopaedia 22:36, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Mother of the king is used in Anglo-Saxon charters: it did not come from French. The list seems to be missing Eadgifu, the 3rd Mrs Edward the Elder, dowager and mother of Kings Edmund and Eadred, and, more certainly, Ælfthryth, the 3rd Mrs Edgar, mother of King Æthelred the Unready. Note charters S 565 (Eadgifu mater regis) S 878 (Aelfðrið mater regis). They would appear to fulfill the conditions of being a dead king's widow and the reigning king's mother. Angus McLellan (Talk) 18:01, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Official use of "Queen Mother"

See the State Prayers for just one example of the official use of "Queen Mother" as a title. There have been four: Henrietta Maria (as "Queen Mary, the Queen Mother" 1662-1669); Alexandra (1910-1925); Mary (1936-1952) and Elizabeth (1952-2002). DrKay 12:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Moving to "Queen mothers" based on overwhelming evidence of predominant usage.

I have thoroughly scoured Google and Google Books results, and it is now clear that "Queen Mothers" is far more likely to be correct than "Queens Mother" - 53,000+ hits for "Queen Mothers" compared to 724 hits for "Queens Mother" (some of which referred to mothers who live in the NY borough of Queens). See also citations set forth above:

• The Literary Digest History of the World War, p. 289, "Two Queen mothers on whom President Wilson called while in Europe in 1918..."
• Henry B. Wheatley, Peter Cunningham, London Past and Present: Its History, Associations, and Traditions, p. 271, "They passed that building which of old Queen Mothers were designed to hold"
• Elna K. Solvang, A Woman's Place is in the House, p. 85, "Information about the deeds of the kings — and possibly the deeds of the queen mothers — is said to be found in the Annals of the Kings".

And some additional:

• Jenny Wormald, Mary, Queen of Scots: Politics, Passion and a Kingdom Lost, p. 50, "it is therefore something of an irony that she had to wait for twelve years, until 1554, and stage a successful coup, before obtaining the place which earlier queen mothers had immediately enjoyed".
• Leo G. Perdue, Proverbs, p. 269, "Queen mothers, while possessing great influence because they bore and reared the male heir apparent to the throne, rarely ever came to sit on the thrones..."
• Sydney Wayne Jackman, A Stranger in the Hague: The Letters of Queen Sophie of the Netherlands, p. 155, "Queen Mothers seem to be wicked everywhere, but this one is now in a most dreadful situation".
• Catherine Coquery-Vidrovitch, African Women: A Modern History, p. 37, "The important role played by queen mothers or their equivalents, whether in a matrilineal or patrilineal society, ..."
• Elisabeth Meier Tetlow, Women, Crime, and Punishment in Ancient Law and Society, p. 151, "Although there were no defined political roles for queen mothers... Queen mothers had treasurers and stewards of their possessions.
• Carol Ann Newsom, Sharon H. Ringe, Women's Bible Commentary, p. 120, "For Judah's twenty kings, eleven queen mothers are named".
• Deborah Levine Gera, Warrior Women: The Anonymous Tractatus de Mulieribus, p. 14, "This last group of women are not only the widows of kings, and (in some instances) independent rulers, but queen mothers, parents of the reigning or future king".
• Barbara N. Ramusack, The Indian Princes and Their States, p. 179, "Numerous less well known queen mothers served as regents."
• Imbert de Saint-Amand, The Court of the Empress Josephine, p. 304, "Then there are the apartments of the queen mothers... In the bedroom of the queen mothers an altar was raised where the Vicar of Christ said mass".
• Heinz Duchhardt, Richard A. Jackson, David J. Sturdy, European Monarchy: Its Evolution and Practice from Roman Antiquity to Modern Times, p. 5, "...the queens or queen-mothers in France were far more than just the consorts or mothers of kings".

Per the above, Wikipedia convention dictates that we must follow the most widely accepted construction, which I am affecting now. Cheers! bd2412 T 04:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Contradiction

This usage is in contradiction to the two links provided at the end of the article:

• English queens dowager
• Scottish queens dowager

SabreWolfy (talk) 19:07, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Months

"Anne died in 1485 and Richard followed her in death months later. "

How many months later ? That's not clear for me.

--Andrea1984 14:00, 19. January 2008 (CET) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.47.190.10 (talk) 13:00, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Original Research

Both the detailed account of why various queens and mothers were or were not Queen Mothers, and the section of what might happen in the future appear to represent Original Research (WP:OR). Even the statement "Following is a list of women who, on the above definition, were entitled to be known as queen mother . . ." suggests that at least part of the list of Queen Mothers itself is also OR. OR is to be avoided on WP. Agricolae (talk) 22:52, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Scope problems

Since the split from English and British Queen mothers, this article has had a rather curious scope. Its title indicates that the article treats queens dowager, the prose indicates it only treats queen mothers, but in actual fact the article seems to indiscriminately discuss any woman who was the mother of a monarch. Scottish and English queens dowager suffer the same problems. What exactly should the scope of these articles be? BigNate37_(T) 01:04, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

I've moved it. If the move is undone, do a requested move. DrKay (talk) 16:30, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Must the son be married? Status change

The article says "A further condition is that the term "queen mother" applies only if a male monarch is married. If he is unmarried, his mother retains her title of queen. (This is analogous to the mother of a peer, who is called a dowager if the peer is married but not otherwise.)". I don't think that is the case and I don't understand the analogy. We're not dealing with an official title here but with a style that may (or may not) be used. I think Queen Mary was entitled to the style (which she never used) the moment Edward VIII became King. From the reference of the page Queen mother "A queen mother is defined as "A Queen dowager who is the mother of the reigning sovereign" by both the Oxford English Dictionary and Webster's Third New International Dictionary." Gerard von Hebel (talk) 15:08, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Also, the article says: "A queen mother retains the style of Her Majesty that she enjoyed as queen, but there is no further coronation ceremony to reflect her changed status." Her status doesn't actually change I think. She was titular Queen and remains just that. Her title doesn't change. Her style will, whether she actually uses the the word "Queen-mother in that style or not, but that has no official consequences. Also "Her Majesty" is not a style but technically an appellation. I think the sentence may be redundant. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 16:44, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Queen Grandmother

I have reverted "In her last year of her life, she was Queen Grandmother." with the summary " She was not the grandmother of a queen, and "Queen Grandmother" is not a recognised title". The summary was misleading, because I though the sentence had been applied to Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, not to Mary of Teck. It is true that Mary of Teck died after the accession of her granddaughter Elizabeth II, so if "Queen Grandmother" were a recognised term then she would qualify. However, "Queen Grandmother" does not appear in the Oxford English Dictionary, and it is not mentioned in its entry for Queen mother. Verbcatcher (talk) 21:25, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

The technical term in English (but not a recognised formal title in the UK) for someone in Mary's 1952-1953 situation is "Queen Dowager".Romomusicfan (talk) 12:40, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Carole Middleton

it is maybe a silly question from an ordinary guy from germany - but I would kindly ask you to explain to me: what is her title as she is the mother of "queen consort presumptive" (kate middleton)? and how will the title change if willy onces becomes king? will she be "queen mum" als well or is there a certain other title? --Ravalejo (talk) 21:59, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

She has no title and will have no title. A queen mother must at one point have been married to the king. DrKay (talk) 17:01, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

It might be worth mentioning that Katherine Princess of Wales will be Queen Mother if she outlives her husband the future King William V (currently William Prince Of Wales.)Romomusicfan (talk) 12:34, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

It would also require William to become king – he might pre-decease his father, or the monarchy might be abolished. This too remote from the present to mention in the article. Wikipedia does not predict the future, see WP:CRYSTALBALL. We should wait for William to become king before we mention this. Verbcatcher (talk) 10:07, 29 September 2022 (UTC)