Talk:Departments of the Government of the United Kingdom

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Politics Mid‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

I'm not sure if the second list should be "Non-ministerial departments". They're often called "Non-departmental bodies". Jon.baldwin 17:42, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Types of government Department

This section has a number of inaccuracies contained therein. For instance, Executive Agencies are NOT NDPBs/QuANGOs, nor are they non-ministerial departments - they are at arm's length from their Parent Department, staffed by civil servants. NDPBs are part of the wider public sector, but these are most definitely not Departments at all - they are sponsored by a parent department within central government and staffed by public (but not Civil) Servants, and there are various types including Advisory and Statutory. Moreover the status of Ministers, Secretaries of State and so on could be much clearer. I could take a stab at amending much of this but I suspect it needs a wholesale revamp. Wisdom of clowns 10:12, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to this article the Highways Agency would be a QuANGO - surely thats not right?

I have tried to correct the page on Government Departments, so I hope that this is a bit clearer now. Guineveretoo 12:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Office of Criminal Justice Reform is a ministerial department which needs to be on the list (HR) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.25.109.196 (talk) 16:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Almost 15 years on, I have revamped the entire page, to set out the types of government departments in a clearer and sourced way. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 17:43, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Privy Council Office

Why is this listed in "see other"? Isn't it a ministerial department, headed by the Lord President? john k 17:30, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which article do I need to read in order to find the current 2006-2007 UK Budget?

Parallel TNA Government Department articles

I have started a list at [1]. Additions to the list, and articles welcome. Jackiespeel (talk) 14:25, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Offices, ministries, departments etc.

Is there any reasonable reason why governement departments are called "offices", "the Treasury", "departments" or "ministries"? I thought it was just a name difference, depending on the historical period in which they were created: "offices" in the 18th century, "ministries" in the mid-20th, "departments" in the last 30 or 40 years. However, the lead of Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food states: "It was the last Ministry of the United Kingdom government not to be a Department of State. The Ministry of Defence continues to be known as a Ministry although it has been a Department since the 1960s", which suggests these are two different things. Besides, the "Ministry" of Justice was created in 2007, which is a bit puzzling. The only difference I can think of is that entities called "ministries" seemed to have a more specific portfolio than the current, larger departments. Any idea? 83.199.66.112 (talk) 12:37, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See more recent complications at Talk:Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government. – Kaihsu (talk) 06:37, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

incomprehensible and confusing intro

As already pointed out more than two years ago above, the intro needs an explanation of the differences between the terms ministry/minister, department, secretary of state, ministerial department, government department, etc.. They now confuse the reader, who does not know which are synonyms or more general terms. --Espoo (talk) 20:04, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Export Credit Guarantee Department

I've removed this as despite their name and their claim, ECGD are not a Government Department (ministerial or otherwise). All Ministerial Departments are listed here: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/government-ministers-and-responsibilities Thom2002 (talk) 00:09, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Seems it was added back. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations – Kaihsu (talk) 06:36, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

We should probably take GOV.UK’s word for it, for the inclusion of UK Export Finance as a ministerial department, rather than an agency of the Department for International Trade, is puzzling, since it is under the responsibility of the International Trade Secretary. Anyway, we should probably get things straight, because it is presented as such on the Department for International Trade article. 89.159.110.175 (talk) 05:42, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Britain/United Kingdom

I was a little bit surprised to see the recent edits and page move by User:RGloucester. I see why it might have appeared a little easier too read, but there's a significant and important difference between Britain and the United Kingdom, and although the terms "Britain" and "British" are often used (in contexts where absolute accuracy is not 100% necessary) to describe the United Kingdom, in this area I think it is particularly vital that we remain accurate. The term "British" would incorrectly imply that the departments are part of some government of Britain, excluding Northern Ireland, and try to over-simplify a slightly confusing situation with the governments of the devolved administrations. In addition, WP:NCGAL provides for consistency when it comes to government-related articles, and there is a convention that the form is "X of Y", such as "Departments of the Government of Japan" as opposed to "Yish (or Yian) Xs". What do you think? ninety:one 20:51, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"British" is adjective for things related to the United Kingdom, not to be confused with the separate island of Great Britain. That's why we're all British citizens, and why we go to British Embassy Tokyo. This is entirely accurate. Northern Ireland is part of Britain, though not Great Britain. Please see the Cambridge Dictionary, which lists its definition for British as "belonging to or relating to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland or its people". We follow reliable sources, and our article title policy demands WP:CONCISEness. RGloucester — ☎ 21:42, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No... Northern Ireland is not "part of Britain" in the sense you say, NI is part of the United Kingdom... this is set out clearly in the Acts of Union.

"Britain" includes the archipelago of British Isles (and technically the territory of Brittany inhabited by Bretons, who are ethnoculturally "British" people).

Britain in the ethnocultural sense specifically excludes the island of Ireland, as Irish; but poltically, part of the island of Ireland is "British", although the entire island of Ireland is geographically part of the British Isles archipelago^[1]. This is not simply a political stance, but a matter set out in law. Great Britain is one of the islands of "Britain" (i.e.: the geo-cultural zone inhabited by the British in the broadest sense, and includes the British Isles archipelago, but that ethnoculturally and separately again politically excludes most of the island of Ireland). The term British is thus a shorthand term conflating geographical, political, and cultural concepts - this shouldn't be fudged for convenience.

The Isle of Man is another part of Britain (being part of the the geographical British Isles), and has never been part of the Kingdom of Great Britain or the United Kingdom, and thus is not "part of Britain" in the sense of being part of the United Kingdom, but it is part of the British Isles archipelago (it has "British Isles" on IoM passports to signify this. It is also not ethnoculturally British, is Manx, so it's distinction from the catch-all term "British" in the sense you describe is similar to NI.

It is this precise difference between geography, and political law that reveals the dictionary you cite to be specifically factually incorrect: the Isle of Man and NI are not conveniently "British".

In response to your "We follow reliable sources"... Dictionaries can be incorrect, if the editorial team is staffed by people who do not check their facts, it is unwise to regard them as definitive (even if, by definition, they are intended to be), so in turn, please adhere to our article title policy, which demands WP:CONCISEness.

MacDaddy

References

^ https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2011/08/whats-the-difference-between-uk-britain-and-british-isles/

Contact with Departments

It would be very helpful if contact details could be included, telephone numbers and all other possible details.Seadowns (talk) 12:38, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 16 February 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs (talk) 00:14, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

British government departments → Departments of the Government of the United Kingdom – Although I understand the confusion between Britain and the UK, the main article is called Government of the United Kingdom. We can have the current title as a redirect but it does not make sense to use one form for the main article and another form for this daughter article, especially when British government has been a redirect since 2003. 2A02:C7D:3C1A:7300:2462:9057:E896:AC16 (talk) 23:10, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nominator in order to be consistent in the main article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.69.53.66 (talk) 13:30, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Looks much better. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:37, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Departmental boards and government non-executives

There is no discussion about these?

– Kaihsu (talk) 12:47, 23 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Colours

Most departments don't have distinct individual logos, but they do each have a dedicated colour bar. I wanted to add these to the table, similar to the party colours on lists of ministerial incumbents, but couldn't get the code to work. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 21:38, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/blog/2011/08/whats-the-difference-between-uk-britain-and-british-isles/

[1]