Talk:Winter of 2010–11 in the British Isles

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Keep, 9 August 2018, see discussion.
no consensus, 30 November 2010, see discussion.

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Move article

I think this article needs to be moved to something like November 2010 United Kingdom snowfall or Winter of 2010-2011 in the United Kingdom depending on how this event progresses. I'll leave it for a day or two in case anyone else wants to comment, then if everything's ok I'll move it to a more appropriate title. Cheeers TheRetroGuy (talk) 13:15, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I see it was moved from Winter of 2010-2011 in the United Kingdom. We may need to move it back to that depending on how things go. TheRetroGuy (talk) 13:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The original title would seem to be a good one. Several comments at AfD that the current title needs to be changed. One slight problem though, it's not winter until 21 December, so maybe "Late autumn 2010 snowfall in the United Kingdom" would be a better title, assuming that the snow melts before 21 December. Mjroots (talk) 07:38, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article is extremely narrow in context. The weather event that has hit the United Kingdom, has actually hit across large parts of Europe too, including Ireland where it has already claimed its first victim (at least in Ireland). Perhaps it might be better to expand the article to include events from all over Europe (or wherever the weather event has hit) and to rename it as something like "November 2010 Winter event in Europe" or some such heading (I'm not great at naming as you can see). Thoughts or opinions? --MacTire02 (talk) 08:15, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, France definitely affected as it was reported on TV in Kent last night or night before. Autumn 2010 snowfall in north west Europe would seem to be a good title. Mjroots (talk) 18:11, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

it's not winter until 21 December: Some people say that winter in England starts on 1 December. Or whenever winter-type weather starts. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:08, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So what is winter then? Some say it starts December 21, others say it's December 1, and yet others say it's November 1, as in Ireland. Which definition do we use? Take for example the Irish words "Deireadh Fomhair" which is translated as October - this actually means End of Autumn. In Manx, "Jerrey Geuree" is translated as January but means "Winter End" while "Toshiaght Arree" is translated as February and means "Start of Spring". In other words, are we defining winter by meteorological means, by native convention, or by current convention? --MacTire02 (talk) 10:25, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article appears to ignore the heavy snow that fell in the Central Belt of Scotland on 6 December resulting in a 48 hour closure of the M8 (20 mile stretch); resignation of the Scottish Transport minister; suspension of most train services in Scotland. --Stewart^{(talk | edits)} 13:29, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merge discussion

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: merge and move to Winter of 2010-2011 in Great Britain and Ireland ~~~~

This discussion is transcluded from another page. The main page for it can be found at Talk:Heavy snowfall of late 2010 in the United Kingdom/merge discussion.

My proposal is to merge Winter of 2010-2011 in Great Britain and Ireland and Heavy snowfall of late 2010 in the United Kingdom (currently two competing articles of different quality) and rename them Winter of 2010-2011 in the United Kingdom as per other similar articles on this kind of topic. Any thoughts on this would be welcome. Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 19:11, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on two points. If you agree to such a merger as outlined above you are suggesting either a) the Republic of Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, or b) the weather system somehow miraculously stopped exactly on the border with the Republic of Ireland. As we know that the two weather systems responsible for the weather has affected both the UK and IRL, I would suggest using the title i) [[Winter of 2010-2011 in Great Britain and Ireland]], ii) [[Winter of 2010-2011 in the British Isles]], or iii) [[Winter of 2010-2011 in the United Kingdom and Ireland]]. i) is probably the most neutral, but excludes IOM and the Channel Isles, ii) is likely to cause furore between Irish and British nationalist agendas (see Talk:British Isles) and iii) is also likely to find a problem with nationalist editors (both British and Irish). --MacTire02 (talk) 20:22, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy for Ireland to be included in the title. The current titles don't make reference to Ireland, but I know they have had weather equally as bad, so it seems only fair. We have February 2009 Great Britain and Ireland snowfall so Winter of 2010-2011 in Great Britain and Ireland would be ok, as would Winter of 2010-2011 in the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland. I think, however, there are some who would probably object quite vehemently to British Isles being in the title so probably best to leave that one out. TheRetroGuy (talk) 20:52, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. As this is not a political event, I would suggest the more geographically neutral Winter of 2010-2011 in Great Britain and Ireland over anything else. --MacTire02 (talk) 21:11, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cool, sounds good to me. TheRetroGuy (talk) 21:55, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Closing

Done the merge. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:28, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cool, thanks for that. Seems the most sensible thing to do. TheRetroGuy (talk) 22:46, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Pictures

As this is supposed to be an article about a severe weather event can we do better than half a dozen pictures taken from someone's window in Banbury where they've had about a millimetre of snow? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.86.140.189 (talk) 10:22, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How many pics have you taken and uploaded? Lugnuts (talk) 14:39, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Deaths

The death list probably needs to be culled or rewritten. There are some entries that have nothing whatsoever to do with the cold wave. For example, the 15 year old's sledding accident and the 19 year old man being murdered could have just as well occured during any typical storm. (the latter has no relation to the weather anomaly except that snowballs were thrown) Sarysa (talk) 19:00, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011

2011 so far has been mild. Indeed there is nothing about 2011 mentioned in the article. Is the snow and ice supposed to return? As it stands the article is titled '2010-2011' but says nothing about 2011 yet.--Blrrkwrrk (talk) 16:16, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It came again in Scotland, but it went again. In parts of Fife, some snow never went (at least into mid-January), and we had a dusting yesterday. I think there was quite a bit in the north on Thursday. Tim PF 16:59, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maximum snow depth

The lead paragraph states that the maximum recorded snow depth was 24 inches at the Peak District near Sheffield on 1st December, but the infobox states it was 28 inches at Bathgate on the 2nd. As far as I can see there are no citations for either event, does anyone have a ref to back up these figures? yorkshiresky (talk) 11:04, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I do not have a reference, but I took a measurement with a metal ruler on the moors of Lodge Moor in Sheffield and got a maximum depth on level ground at 31 inches. It is a shame it wasn't offically measured. --90.209.206.83 (talk) 12:52, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge 2011 Scotland Windstorm into this article

2011 Scotland Windstorm is a new unreferenced article. This event does not seem notable enough for its own article. The content could easily be covered in this article.—Jeremy (talk) 16:59, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose - Hey. I do not see the reason for merging 2011 Scotland Windstorm into this page as it has nothing to do with it. Tpxpress (talk) 20:44, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Extremely strong oppose - as per above 86.185.129.142 (talk) 07:57, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed - the standalone article is erroneous. The factually correct pieces of information within it would be better placed under this entry. GEETD (talk) 16:19, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - It would be better to expand its existing short entry in European windstorm, instead of merging it here. Tim PF (talk) 17:40, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rename

I think that this article should be renamed to something more specific to the months of November and December. Unlike December, the winter months of January and February were nothing remarkable (unlike winter 2009-10), and the latter month was mild. I think we should rename it in a similar fashion to how February 2009 Great Britain and Ireland snowfall is titled, although the problem there lies with the fact that the cold snap in 2010 spanned over two months and the low temperatures were more remarkable than the snowfall. Skyline0304 (talk) 17:23, 1 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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WP:LASTING, WP:NOTNEWS, WP:TMI

Hi. As per the consensus outcome of a recent AfD on this article, pretty much all parties to the AfD (nominator, keep-advocates and delete-advocates) noted that improvement is required here. For my part, one of the significant improvements required is the removal of the excessive, "blow by blow", "day by day", "breaking news and weather" style structure. In the "Timeline" section. Much of the content here fails the guidelines about not being excessively granular, not treating Wikipedia as the "news and weather", and not having uncited content. (The "keep" consensus was on the basis of the lasting relevance of the weather event. Not that, for example, the night of 30 November was "a dry night [with] snow showers returned to the North and East". Not only is this type of statement unsupported, it has no lasting encyclopedic relevance.) Anyway, if there are no other comments or suggestions, I will be excising as much of this uncited and excessively granular "minute by minute" "breaking news" stuff as possible. And, if possible, summarising the key "Timeline" sections into (at least) a month-by-month summary. Guliolopez (talk) 15:28, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]