Talk:Jian Ghomeshi

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Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2022

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Under "Criminal Charges and Trial", in the 3rd paragraph, change

// The inconsistency and "outright deception" of the witnesses' testimony had irreparably weakened the prosecution's case.(91)[1] Lawyer Marie Henein was able to access thousands of messages between Ghomeshi's accusers and presented them during the trial.(92)[2] Judge William Horkins rebuked the complainants for providing "deceptive and manipulative" evidence.(93)[3] //

to

// Lawyer Marie Henein was able to access thousands of messages between Ghomeshi's accusers, and presented them during the trial.(92)[4] Justice William B. Horkins rebuked the complainants for, in his words, providing "deceptive and manipulative" evidence.(93)[5] He had the opinion that the accusers' testimonies "suffered not just from inconsistencies and questionable behaviour, but was tainted by outright deception,"(91)[6] and that their behaviour "was 'out of harmony' with what he would suspect of a victim of sexual assault."[7]

The judge's comments were later widely criticized for being misogynist, and showing a lack of understanding of the consequential behaviour of sexual assault victims.(97)[8], [9], [10], [11] // 76.65.25.131 (talk) 23:15, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not done You would need to get consensus for such a significant change, and your sources do not even come close to supporting your claim that the "judge's comments were later widely criticized for being misogynist, and showing a lack of understanding of the consequential behaviour of sexual assault victims." Two of your your sources do not address the issue at all, one of them is just one person's opinion that "many judges do not seem to understand the dynamics of these situations", and the fourth is paywalled (and after looking at the first three I'm not going to chase this any further). That's certainly not evidence of widespread criticism of a judge's supposed misogyny. Meters (talk) 02:09, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@76.65.25.131 @Meters I agree that the reaction of Canadians should be inserted in this article. For a male judge to base a judgement on his perceptions about what victims of sexual assault would do or say is a serious miscarriage of justice, and extremely sexist behaviour. Someone is sanitising this article, and it doesn't look good. I agree this perspective should be sourced and cited, but there were a lot of people upset by this judgement, and many got published. Why are none appearing on the page? Billyshiverstick (talk) 00:16, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected request regarding quotes from judge

Since this is semi-protected, I would like to note that the quotes by the judge are stated as fact and should be changed as they are extremely misinformed. The judge also said that interacting with one’s abuser and showing less than extreme animus towards them "seems out of harmony with the assaultive behaviour ascribed to him." Obviously, this is willful ignorance, considering this is MORE rather than less likely to be the case. As many should now know, we are most likely to KNOW our abuser. So his statements in the face of the comments by even the accused, dozens of survivors, and many more witnesses should in no way be presented as fact.

I am frustrated that every page I have seen that is locked or semi locked is for an abusive or virulently bigoted individual and contains some misleading information that supports their cause. Elleoneiram (talk) 02:59, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Elleoneiram I don't see the quote you mentioned in the article. I do see that the judge commented on the accusers interacting with one another. —C.Fred (talk) 03:02, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes that is not in the article lol. It’s mentioned in this: https://globalnews.ca/news/2595443/jian-ghomeshi-trial-former-cbc-radio-host-found-not-guilty-of-all-charges/. Sorry for the confusion. I wanted to show more of his comments in context. Elleoneiram (talk) 03:04, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Elleoneiram I agree with you that the judge is a sexist dinosaur, but in a Wikipedia, we are better off just letting him hang himself with his own words. I would highly recommend you find some criticism and commentary of his actions, and quote it, under a section Reaction To Judgement or something similar. Your points are important, and should be added to this story, just in the methodology of a Wikipedia. Editors shouldn't be editorialising. best regards Billyshiverstick (talk) 00:10, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2023

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The first reference link is dead and has been removed by Macleans. 2605:B100:740:57A1:FD94:53DC:E2A9:B384 (talk) 05:36, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. I am confused, the link is still active. Heart ^(talk) 05:49, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm smelling sanitisation here...

I totally get that this is the Wiki page of a human being, and everyone is entitled to "a fair trial", and that life is complicated. However, I just want to state, as a long time editor, that I'm seeing a pattern where somebody is trying to make Jian's actions seem completely harmless, and paint him as someone who has been falsely accused. Our task as Wiki editors is not an easy one, but please join me in removing obvious "sanitisation", such as the sentence that– Sarah Polley had appeared many times on Q in a congenial way with Jian, before she later came out and detailed an alleged sexual assault by him when he was 28 and she was 16. A lot of women have had to play nice with sexual predators, especially very, very young women. If Sarah Polley has the courage to come forward, who are we to try and tear her down? Let's let the facts, and the people, speak for themselves. I also don't think we should be suppressing criticism of the judge's statements. A lot of male judges have condoned a lot of predatory male behaviour in history. Billyshiverstick (talk) 00:04, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]