Talk:Chris Beck (Navy SEAL)

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A fact from Chris Beck (Navy SEAL) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 16 June 2013 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Kristin Beck served as a Navy Seal for 20 years before revealing her gender identity as a woman?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2013/June.

Wikipedia

Pronoun?

Regarding the sentence In the book, Speckhard notes that Beck had a desire to die honorably so that she would not have to "wrestle anymore with the emotional pain that stemmed from the lack of congruency between his gender identity and body": I think it should read either so that he would not have to wrestle anymore... or ...the lack of congruency between her gender identity and body. It is jarring to use both male and female pronouns in the same sentence talking about the same thing. I prefer the male pronoun in this case, because I think it was while she was still functioning as a man that she "had a desire to die honorably" and was experiencing a lack of congruency; the time frame of the sentence suggests male for both pronouns. I bring this here for discussion because I know pronouns can be a touchy issue when dealing with a transgendered person, and for the most part this article handles it very well, but I think this sentence needs fixing. --MelanieN (talk) 16:45, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, good point, I fixed it as you suggested. It was a quote, so we can't change the "lack of congruency" phrase.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 15:56, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Part of it was unattributed quotation. I set it as it was in the source. __Elaqueate (talk) 10:34, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

dual picture

I think the dual picture in the lede is useful; I actually spoke with the subject, and she is proud of the military photo (and of her service). Much of the news coverage of beck had side by side photos in the same fashion.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 02:13, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We are an encyclopedia not selling sensationalism. We already have a picture of her on the book cover. There is absolutely no need for a second photo simply demonstrating she wore a uniform. Additionally there is no reason to include two photos in the info box. We don't seem to do that for anyone else, we use the best image that represents the person. In this case the lead image should be of Kristin, not two, and not one of her former gender identity. Sportfan5000 (talk) 22:13, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why use an admittedly outdated photo for current profile picture? This is forcing an editorial view that current picture is somehow "not enough" to truly represent what the subject looks like currently. __Elaqueate (talk) 09:23, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why can't the military photo be in the navy career section then? I think Sportfan has a point, it might look as if we are doing a "before and after" comparison which wouldn't be particularly respectful. --Space simian (talk) 16:05, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's still a little unbalanced at the moment overall. There are two pictures of her on active duty and pre-transition against only one of her post-transition. This is strange as the article states, her notability began when posting a picture of herself on Linkedin presenting as a woman. The photo caused sources to write about her and made her notable, and it is not included here. Pictures of her as a woman are prevalent. In addition to her media appearances, she has also has a profile writer's photo from her Guardian writing. I don't think it's horribly unbalanced as her military service is a vital and undeniably significant part of her biography. But the photo use is slanted overall against what she looks now, and what she looked like when she became notable, and what she looked like in her public interviews. __Elaqueate (talk) 17:13, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to match the picture size against other biographies. Let me know if I've done it correctly! __Elaqueate (talk) 17:27, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This might also be a matter of improving the prose of the article so the images are spread more, but that may take some time. Additionally I can see that the book might become it's own article so that image would go to that article. I guess the military one can stay if we have permission already. Sportfan5000 (talk) 21:51, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

award section

I removed the incomplete tag and filled out the rest of her ribbons and devices. — -dainomite 03:18, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Her award section is incorrect. The device on the Southwest Asia Service medal is a Bronze Arrowhead and the aforementioned medal holds higher precedence than the Afghanistan Campaign Medal. Her ribbon rack in the photo is unfortunately incorrectly assembled in that respect. The free fall badge should be master level not basic by the way. 71.99.198.67 (talk) 04:34, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Its an oak leaf cluster on the SW service ribbon in her portrait, link. I thought it was odd her ribbon rack wasn't assembled properly either, especially considering that she was in for so long-but whatevs. — dain omite 10:46, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I too thought it was an OLC at first but I knew that would be incorrect so I assumed it was an arrowhead. Perhaps, it would be best to alter her award section to show it as 1 Bronze Service Star instead and fix the placement of her Afghan Campaign Ribbon? I don't know if Wikipedia has a policy of relying on self-reported awards rather than going off of actual military regulation. I'll defer to the Wikipedians to make the change either way, I don't think I have enough experience editing here to make an editorial decision like that without an actual account. 71.99.198.67 (talk) 13:44, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Came back to this article to see if any changes had been since I last visited and I noticed that their AAM was higher than their NAM. Does someone want to correct this? While I understand that maybe a photo might be the most accurate source when it comes to awards, I think Wikipedia is doing a grave disservice to Chief Beck's service! If you look at the cover art on the title of her book she has the proper order of precedence, so why is it considered taboo to change the awards section to accurately reflect the honors she recieved? 71.99.198.67 (talk) 02:43, 28 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The awards shown do not match what is visible in the photo. The picture is from September 2011. She retired in 2011 implying the picture is close to, if not the same as, the final award rack. Unfortunately, the awards section does not cite sources. Is there something that's supposed to be more accurate than a photo of Beck? --Marc Kupper|talk 07:01, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The USSocom Medal that is included on Beck's fifth row of ribbons is not an official US Military medal. It is a commemorative organizational award but is not an official medal authorized for wear therefore I am removing it from the page. 184.178.219.137 (talk) 22:05, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

After inspection, I have noticed that the page is locked to users without accounts, in that case I will plead to whomever reads this page with an account to make the appropriate change. Thank you. 184.178.219.137 (talk) 22:07, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sibling status

In the movie her dad mentioned she was a middle child...does anyone know her birth order? Can it be added to the main page? Pollypath (talk) 17:42, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

According to the CNN documentary, Lady Valor, (12 minutes in) they say Gardner is a year and a half older. Lizzie is referred to as the baby of the family. Fourteen minutes into the same documentary, Kristin says "She's probably about 10 or 12 years younger..."--00:59, 15 August 2015 (UTC)93.187.35.94 (talk)--93.187.35.94 (talk) 00:59, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Awards section

Do not add unsubstantiated awards to Beck's award section without documentation. Unless you have access to Beck's DD214 you have no right to edit the award section. 100.3.240.69 (talk) 16:25, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pronouns

I'm not sure where we stand on pronouns for transgender people right now—I know it's a topic of frequent discussion—but this Washington Post article uses male pronouns to describe her pre-transition, "agreed with the use of male pronouns for describing her past identity." That's a bit ambiguous to me, whether the author did this and she didn't object, or whether this is Beck's preference. Something to consider for the future. Right now, we seem to be avoiding pronouns for her pre-transition but using feminine ones when we do.

We could ask her, but she's been given (IMO) a rather harsh soft block. "Lady Valor" seems like a perfectly acceptable user name for her, since it's an alias of hers. --BDD (talk) 22:18, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Retirement

Vote: Should Retirement be added though not specified? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.44.2.152 (talk) 18:54, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Interview Released December 1, 2022 regarding Detransition

The subject of this Wikipedia page was interviewed in a long-form video podcast interview with the conservative commentator Robby Starbuck, and this interview appeared through his podcast series on December 1, 2022 (with a likely interview date of much earlier than this). In this interview, the subject of this Wikipedia page made it clear that the transition had stopped, and that hormone usage had stopped approximately seven years ago (no year identified, but perhaps 2015 if not earlier).

There has been at least one anonymous edit incorporating this, which has been reverted. We are going to need to integrate the subject of this Wikipedia page's own statements in this long-form interview into this article in order to remain accurate.

Neptune1969 (talk) 15:46, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Here's a link [1] to the podcast on Rumble. - Lisa (talk - contribs) 20:04, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the unsourced portion from the lead but retained the sourced statement in the Media appearances section. I'm about to have to go AFK for an hour, but I'll come back to it shortly—hopefully reliable secondary sources will emerge in the not-too-distant future. Looks like the podcast was only just released earlier today. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 20:15, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Coming back to this, I've adjusted to the name Chris and he/him pronouns per MOS:ID ("person's latest self-identification as reported in recent sources"). GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 22:32, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Key quotes from the beginning of the video:

"Twenty years in the military: I had some trauma, you know. And then walking into a psychologist's office and one day, [one hour], I had a letter in my hand saying I was transgender. I was authorized hormones and all this other stuff."
"This is not political. This is not religious. This is health, physical health. This is mental health, the well being of our children. So do not make this religious, and do not make this political. It's not either one of those."
"There's a lot to unpack here. I'm telling you right now, I am not transgender. And everything you're doing to these children right now, I am not that."
"Oh, I've been off hormones probably for seven years [or] longer. I only did that for a little while. And then I saw thyroid problems. And then I saw a lot of other issues. And I was like, this is really messing me up…"

Rorybowman (talk) 01:05, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Detransition

Video interview released today at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4XBqxrYVoo&t=90s which seems to indicate Beck has decided to stop cross-sex hormones and feminine presentation. THIS should be interesting.

Beck says they stopped hormones over seven years ago, and are here speaking against transition, especially for children.

Rorybowman (talk) 17:47, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, a lot of stories (see Google search)... but I can't find anything from a source that I'd call a very reliable source yet. Skepticalgiraffe (talk) 22:26, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did you watch the video of the interview? Do you think that the person being interviewed is not actually Chris Beck but an impostor? Did you listen to what he said and see how he is presenting? Unless you have evidence that the person speaking the video is an imposter, this is absolutely a reliable source. 2602:306:CE71:CD40:A87A:2D5A:A853:914B (talk) 23:21, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't watch the video. Is youtube considered a reliable source? Skepticalgiraffe (talk) 01:42, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If no traditional outlets cover the fact that he has detransitioned, do we just leave the page name as his old name? That seems a bit rude. Unsure of the standard on this. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:21, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Certain editors here are going to work very hard to bury this. Beck was a cause celeb for the movement. 73.36.191.123 (talk) 15:40, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think the page should be his legal name, if its Kristen Beck then it should remain Kristen Beck until he changes it. Maybe the picture should be changed from his trans pic. 76.30.133.9 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 16:18, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Skepticalgiraffe I totally agree with your sentiments here. It’s absolutely preposterous for us to even consider that actual video of a subject speaking about himself, or more correctly in this case, herself, is a reliable source. Absurd. Clearly it’s essential for either CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, WaPo or the NYT to confirm her detransition. Otherwise, it’s all just so much fantasy. Boscaswell talk 01:40, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What is preposterous is you misgendering this person until a legacy news website confirms what they themselves have said already. Absurd. 75.212.75.107 (talk) 06:22, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Boscaswell: Youtube is such a source of dubious and unreliable information (and outright lies) that it should be avoided whenever possible. If there were any other confirming sources I would be a lot happier. However, yes, in this particular case, it seems to be the only source available. Skepticalgiraffe (talk) 22:11, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Any evidence their name has changed? They still go by Kristin on their facebook page. Bkatcher (talk) 04:17, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, he did an interview in the past week and he used the name Chris.

[2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4XBqxrYVoo 75.212.75.107 (talk) 16:03, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]