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Archive 1

On 2007-03-29 Project Valhalla was merged into Max Payne and replaced with a redirect after the article Project Valhalla was nominated for deletion. This was a result an Afd debate Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Project Valhalla. The debate was closed on 2007-02-19 with a consensus to merge the content into Max Payne. This is a record of that debate for the talk page. The merge template was removed while reviewing mergers completed.-----Adimovk5 (talk) 13:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Bullet-time

I removed the "References needed" box from this section because it is an accurate description of the gameplay mechanics. What reference is appropriate aside from the game itself? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.90.112.99 (talk) 10:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

very good.88.230.221.115 (talk) 21:01, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

yes.88.232.139.85 (talk) 17:24, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Context, please

Context, please? What is this about? Kosebamse 14:06, 30 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Cinematic influences

I don't have a handy source for this (and am therefore reluctant to make the change myself), but I was under the distinct impression that The Matrix was mentioned by Remedy more often as inspiration than John Woo and Hong Kong movies. In fact, I'd thought that many of the people who developed Max Payne were previously known for a graphics demo where they recreated the famous "lobby getting shot to pieces" scene. Additionally, there's the obvious recycling of not only the concept of bullet time, but the same name the Wachowskis used.

In any case, I think that Matrix merits at least a mention in the Overview section. Any thoughts? --DynSkeet 15:58, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree. K1Bond007 21:09, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, me too. Robinoke 15:15, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Clumsy attempt at working Matrix into aforementioned section done. - DynSkeet 17:48, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I recall a rumor... at first, this game was meant to be The Matrix, but Warner cancelled the contract and went to Shiny Entertainment instead. Remedy then took the engine they had developed and made Max Payne. Does anyone have more info on that?
That's absolutely false. K1Bond007 16:20, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

...not really all that heavily influenced by the Matrix

Uh, actually, Max Payne was in production a long time before The Matrix had ever been heard of; Remedy started work on it in 1997. I'm sure The Matrix had a certain degree of influence there, but the the slow-motion feature is specifically inspired far more by the Hong Kong action movies in general and John Woo in particular than The Matrix (though calling the effect bullet time was probably directly inspired by The Matrix).

To quote an interview from next-generation.com, published on September 22, 1998 (the site is now gone, but you can still find it through the Internet Archive): "The features that set Max Payne apart are the stylistic combat, it really looks and feels like a movie, slow-motion as a game-play element, strong character that stands above the crowd and last but not least a proper storyline to give context and meaning to the action."

This was about six months before the movie even came out, and as the game had already been in development for a good while then, it can easily be deduced that the idea for the slow motion stuff did not come from The Matrix. Max Payne's release was delayed quite a bit, so a lot of people think that the whole slow motion thing came from The Matrix -- but it didn't.

It was a classic example of two groups of people doing the same thing on their own, though it really should be stressed that both Remedy and the Wachowski brothers drew heavily on all the slow motion used in Hong Kong action movies.

I'm editing the article accordingly. -- Captain Disdain 23:46, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and interestingly enough, apparently "Bullet Time" was actually first trademarked by Remedy; the trademark was only later acquired by Warner Bros. It's possible that they came up with the term first, and then sold it to WB, though I can't really find any references on that. -- Captain Disdain 00:01, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The first occurrence in Max Payne of a bullet time scene (a camera rotating around two characters engaged in gunfight, while time is frozen) was in the 1999 E3 trailer, released AFTER The Matrix came out. The expression "Bullet Time" was trademarked by Remedy on May 22, 2001 (as you can see at [1]) but the expression itself was associated with the Matrix even before then. This message, dated April 1, 1999, explicitly mentions bullet time and points to a Warner Bros page about The Matrix where the term "Bullet Time" is used. Remedy just trademarked an expression that was already used. -- Devil Master 19:35, 18 Aug 2006 (MET)

GameCube?

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think Max Payne was ever released for the GameCube..

It wasn't.

Nicole Horne: Loki

Is anyone else convinved that Nicole Horne represents "The Horned One", Loki?

I think that's the intention. Her role in the plot aside, "Nicole" backwards, minus the N, is a close approximation to "Loki". -Sean Curtin 05:52, August 12, 2005 (UTC)
No, I think the reference is pretty straightforward: Nicole Horne aka N. Horne is one of the Norns, probably fate out of the three Norns, as it's fate that is plaguing Max from the beginning. And don't forget there is is also 2 twin sisters in the game. -Rémi Mathieu 05:52, February 27, 2007 (UTC)

Twin Peaks reference?

One of the TVs in the game plays a short segment visually similar to the "red room" scenes in Twin Peaks, and also features a pink flamingo that speaks "backwards", like The Man From Another Place. Is this intentional, or just a really unlikely coincidence? Maybe it should be mentioned in the article. Tronno 19:00, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Address Unknown is clearly a nod to Twin Peaks. During one of the fun house levels in the second game, you overhear two goons at one point talking about Address Unknown, and Goon A gives Goon B--who has not seen the show--a spoiler about the identity of a killer that ruins the plot for Goon B. The conversation, and the spoiler itself, are obvious references to Twin Peaks.
Also, the inane soap opera you see playing on random televisions in the games, Lords and Ladies, is somewhat reminiscent of the equally ridiculous soap opera glimpsed on various televisions in Twin Peaks entitled Invitation to Love. In both Max Payne and Twin Peaks, the fictional television shows in some way parallel the action in the main storyline. NighTrekr 04:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The cultist bar´s name

Hi there. The cultist bar´s name was "Ragna Rock" not Ragnarok. Nice play of words I thought when I played the game, that´s why I remembered it. I´m editing the article then.

story broken into points

What was done with the story detailed and broken into points in the article is nice but pay attention that this is the story of the game as told on the GBA, which is a short version of the full game's story. Please note this in the article and consider further alterations and article development.

Sin City

After recently re-reading most of the Sin City series it's clear to me that it was in fact an influence on Max Payne. Not only do the covers for Max Payne and Max Payne 2 look like something straight out of Sin City, but the character of Max looks very much like Dwight from the comics (Clive Owens in the film), and Frank Miller drops lots of Norse references too.

Here is my proposed addition to the overview section:

Frank Miller's Sin City comics are another noteworthy influence, as they also combine the noir and pulp genres with references to Norse mythology in a non-traditional medium.

I felt it was more prudent to put it here than to slap it in the main article. Thoughts? -- Hardgoodbye 06:38, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Seems like original research to me. First off, for a fact, the character Max Payne is based on Sam Lake, the author of Max Payne. It was only after Lake was unavailable for the second game that they hired someone else, but even that person has a resemblance to Lake. Second, Sin City and Max Payne are both film noirs so obviously theres going to be some similarities. Norse mythology is hardly exclusive to either Max Payne or Sin City. There are thousands of works out there that make references to norse mythology. K1Bond007 06:52, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I agree wholeheartedly with K1Bond007. There's no indication that Max Payne was particularly influenced by Sin City; frankly, I think this talk of a resemblance between Max and Dwight is, uh, kinda far-fetched at best (...they look similar? Dwight? Max? I don't see it. Seriously. And in any case, Max is based on the game's writer, so any similarity, imagined or not, is pretty much guaranteed to be coincidental.) As for the Norse mythology, you might as well say that the Mighty Thor was an influence... especially as Sin City does not in fact contain a lot in the way of Norse mythology; the fact that Dwight calls Gail his "valkyrie" doesn't count any more than calling something a Herculean effort infuses that something with a strong element of Greek mythology. Sure, Max Payne and Sin City share certain superficial similarities, but that does not mean that one is influenced by the other. -- Captain Disdain 07:37, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Check out this classic Dark Justice concept art. It looks quite a bit like Dwight. But I will continue researching for harder evidence. -- Hardgoodbye 09:02, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes, well, I wouldn't be in a great hurry to base any arguments on concepts that not only clearly didn't make it in the final game but, in my opinion, aren't indicative of much of anything except the fact that we can all be thankful for the fact that Remedy didn't use it. =) (And, uh, what's so Dwight about that, anyway? It's a guy with a gun, wearing a trenchcoat -- that puts us about re hip-deep in cliché -- done not only in bright colors but in a style that is just about completely different from what Miller uses in Sin City.) Honestly (and I mean no offense), you're really barking up the wrong tree here. -- Captain Disdain 09:26, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Let me also point out Wikipedia:No original research. Make sure you can cite a source. K1Bond007 19:33, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
as someone might already might had pointed out, Sin City is hardly an original piece. Sure, for our times the comic by Frank Miller looks rather original, but in the comic world, Sin City falls into a genre. Its a good comic, but it shares a lot with other pulp comics and a lot of Chandler novels. If you look down on any comicbook store, chances are that youll find a dozen of comics that might fall on the same description of Sin City.
I somewhat doubt that you'd really find that many, Sin City is something of a throwback in the comicbook world. That said, Sin City and Max Payne both draw of the same genre, but, there isn't really much to tie them together beyond that. It's possible that the cover art is inspired by the Sin City interior art, but, Frank Miller (re?)popularized that with the original Sin City comics over a decade ago. --M. Schwarz 4/11/07

Max Payne as a character

Max Payne's character also seems to have some basis on the Marvel comic book character The Punisher, a former soldier whose family is murdered in a mob hit gone awry and goes on a one man killing spree against the criminals who were involved with the hit (and later ALL criminals though any connection should be considered arbitrary - unlike Punisher, Max Payne is not amoral or insane. In addition, Max chose to remain a police officer while Punisher became a vigilante who ignored the law).

Am I the onlyone who really doesn't see this? Yes, there's some very basic similarity in that his family was killed, and that he acts as a vigilante, but, beyond that, I really don't see any solid comparison. Their methods of operation are extremly different, (The Punisher is calculating and methodical approaching situations as a soldier, while Max tends to leap in guns blazing.) Max is willing to work with criminals to persue common enemies, Frank Castle has a history of gunning down other vigilantes. Nor is the character of Frank Castle really amoral or insane, a debate on the morality of the punisher's kind of sticky stuff, and this isn't the place for it, but, I don't think he really falls into the catigory of amoral. I'm recomending for deletion. --M. Schwarz 4/11/07 (7:40PM PST)

That whole section seems strange to me, it reads to me as if the editor has done his own analysis of Max's actions and made his own connections like the one to The Punisher. I think either a rewrite or sources is needed. ●Bill (talk|contribs) 03:02, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


The connection to Punisher is more visceral: both men were motivated by the violent deaths of their respective families but if anything, the Punisher movie has more in common with Payne than the Punisher of the comics. Payne is, at heart, a different animal: depressed, quasi-suicidal and morally tortured. While both men might bond over drinks at the local pub, they are two different characters: Frank is a serial character meant for a serial comic book: i.e. he is a man with a mission. Payne was just winging it. Payne is a singular video-game type character so his storyline was crafted to have a beginning and end when he got his wife's killer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BlackNemesis (talk • contribs) 23:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

anyone who knows about max payne and the punisher will see a resemblance but something to remember is,according the the story in the instructions booklet,Max is not a hero just a man put in an impossible situation and trying to survive and find his families killers,or something like that.The punisher i wouldn't call insane since from what i have read he only kills people who kill others and even saves innocents,and seems to care about them more than max does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.119.56.156 (talk) 06:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Lack of citation.

Under the Max Payne 3 heading, there's the line: "Perhaps the reason to this is that the original development crew, Remedy Entertainment is not going to continue working with the Max Payne franchise."

Is there any source for that information? I know Remedy is working on Alan Wake at this time, but I hadn't heard about them not working on Max Payne 3 in the future. Which also ties in with the following line: "Although the original creators of Max Payne have disbanded..."

Another statement I hadn't heard before that has no outside verification. As far as I can tell, Sam Lake is still working for Remedy, developing Alan Wake (and he's the only developer from the Max Payne series whose name I can remember). I can't tell if this information is true or not. I'm willing to accept it, but I don't see any mention of this on Remedy's page (which itself could use some improvements).

Any further information on this issue would be greatly appreciated. ZJVavrek 06:10, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, the original creators of Max Payne have most certainly not disbanded -- Remedy Entertainment is still in existence, and they are indeed working working on Alan Wake. (I'll edit the article accordingly.) Remedy isn't a huge company; they employ 25 game developers, and since they're doing Alan Wake right now, they just don't have the manpower to develop another game at the same time.
Also, seeing as Remedy obviously can't make a new Max Payne game without the approval of the current copyright holders, it would make sense to assume that unless the owners of the franchise (that would be Take Two) specifically announce that Remedy is developing the third game in the series, they're not doing it -- and whenever Max Payne 3 has been mentioned by the publisher, Remedy's name has been conspicious in its absence. Personally, I kind of doubt the Remedy guys have any great urge to return to that franchise, but that's obviously just speculation on my part. -- Captain Disdain 23:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Max Payne: Payne & Redemption

Please note that I removed the entire section the short film Max Payne: Payne & Redemption for a number of reasons. First, it was pure advertising, plain and simple. Second, the info- which had been its own article- was unanimously deleted via AfD (though it technically wasn't "unanimous", as someone involved with the film wanted the article kept), and nobody moved to merge the info into this article. Third, the short's title gets a grand total of 64 unique Google hits, almost all of which come from message board postings or Wikipedia mirrors. (And, FYI, spelling the title with an "and" instead of an "&" gives 17 unique hits.) The film is completely and utterly non-notable, and this article should focus on the game and other things officially related to it. -- Kicking222 19:48, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

The section is back up. Is there a reason or should it be removed again? NighTrekr 05:05, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

the movie isnt back up and people should be inforemed about it i you consider the oficial site as advertising dotn post it but say that there is one in developemend or put it the link near the levels and mods links for the imformation purposes it must be —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.234.122.88 (talk • contribs)

It was back, then I took it down again. Twice. So no it is not up. I have no idea what else you are trying to say here. I think you are saying that people should know (i.e. you should advertise) about the movie. When there are reasonable sources to be cited, get back to us. See Star Wars: Revelations for how an independent third party film can be properly incorporated into WP. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 14:23, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

since there are screnshots of the game and as a positive review... you can consider everything here as advertising :| common be serious —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.234.122.88 (talk • contribs)

Load speeds

Article reads "This problem was often compounded by the extremely long load times for each level."

I remember playing this game when it first came out, and I recall level load times being fairly long, but quickload times (which is the "problem" being referred to) within the same level taking a matter of seconds.

Has anyone actually experienced slow quickload times, or is it safe to remove that comment? Riotgear 06:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I haven't experienced any slow load times at all. ToJPhantom 08:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Alot of my friends around the time of release got this game, and I have never heard of long quickload times. PleasantKenobi 09:42 25 January 2007

'Gameplay' section

At the end of this section is says there is no further content to unlock with harder difficulty.

However there is a post on the A.wake BB [2] that says if you clock the game on 'Dead on Arrival' Mona Sax survives at the end - which expains her appearance in the sequel. Can anyone confirm this? Ethikos 08:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

If you beat Max Payne 2 on the hardest difficulty she does survive, however in the first game, no matter the difficulty, she isnt seen again after her supposed death Canada2k8 16:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Trivia Section

(The prologue of chapter 2...bubbles with text in them.) This bit of trivia is incorrect. You don't pick up a phone to trigger these cut scenes, you pick up a letter that has his wife's handwriting on it. (ToJPhantom 20:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC))

You pick up the letter first, then the phone. They're two seperate objects on the table. When Max walks by the letter he exclaims something to the effect of "The letter was staring at me on the table.", while the phone simply rings. D Boland 00:28, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Plot

The plot section is way too long, it doesn't need to be a complete walk through of the story. Bill (Talk) 17:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

The prologue of chapter 2 triva?

Is that bit really triva?Not like it was hidden or anything, it was just a part of the game.

Knightmare 18:46, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Merge from Address Unknown (Max Payne)

Please merge any relevant content from Address Unknown (Max Payne) per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Address Unknown (Max Payne). Thanks. —Quarl (talk) 2007-02-11 12:12Z

any news on Max Payne: The Movie??

well it says "currently slated for release in April 2007" to good to be true ;) . i am a wikipedia noob but i think someone should update it somehow, thx. 84.168.186.81 02:56, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Just saw them filming at Bay Station in the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC). Date: March 5th, 2008 Aequitas12345 (talk) 17:25, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Mythology

I just restored the section. The relationship with the storyline and Norse mythology is not just indiscriminate trivia. It's what helped make the game stand out. The gameplay was somewhat unique with bullet time, but the mythological references helped make the game have a more "real" plot than most video games' "got to shoot everything." I also think that this section introduces to a novice a little something they didn't expect. An average 14 year old who played the game probably doesn't know the mythology behind it. By reading it here, there's a chance that they may want to go further and explore the links to Aesir or Fimbulwinter. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 11:42, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, fair enough. Can you accredit this to any sources? ♣ Klptyzm Chat wit' me § Contributions ♣ 04:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that's the hard part. ;) This was the only review I can find that mentioned it. Most of what I can find is forums or commentary to 'real' reviews which aren't RS. (Sadly, many searches on Google for "'max payne' mythology" also come up with Age of Mythology.) Actually, I just found a reference from the game itself:
from the game script at IGN. The nightclub is named Ragnarok and he's describing Fimbulwinter. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 11:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

People keep deleting this section because it's in the form of a trivia section, which isn't very helpful in making it work for the article. Oddly, they're also leaving in the "Norse mythology in popular culture" category after they've hacked it all away. Anyway, it's a strong theme that runs through the whole game, so I think it needs to be mentioned in some way. Since the plot synopsis needs to be trimmed, maybe it could be combined into a single subheading in the plot section and then a prose description of the plot's mythological influences could be added as a second subheading. Here's the bullets themselves for future reference:

Norse mythology

Most of the elements in the game are named for figures from Norse mythology. Although this is often seen as a nod to the Scandinavian heritage of the game's Finnish development company, Remedy Entertainment, this is something of a misconception; although Finland is often lumped together with the other Nordic countries, Finnish mythology actually differs considerably from its Norse counterpart. It's more likely that these themes were simply incorporated into the game out of appreciation for their iconic status.

  • The Valkyr drug is a military performance enhancer that turns its users into adrenaline-charged killers who experience hallucinatory images of death. The Valkyries of Norse mythology were warrior-women who watched over battlefields, 'choosers of the slain' who took those who died with valor to Valhalla.
  • Project Valhalla is the government-funded conspiracy that developed Valkyr to enhance the combat effectiveness of US soldiers. In Norse mythology, Valhalla was the afterlife of those selected by the Valkyries. From then on, they spent their days fighting and their nights feasting, every morning finding their injuries completely healed so they could spend another day fighting. Ultimately, those who populated Valhalla would fight for the Norse gods in their wars.
  • The computer network in the military base is named Yggdrasil, referring to the tree that connected the nine worlds in Norse cosmology.
  • The Aesir Corporation, mentioned frequently in the game and the primary source of the Valkyr drug, is named for the primary pantheon of Norse gods. Aesir is the English plural for the Norse Gods. Also, the way the word is pronounced may resemble "Hersir".
  • The nightclub Ragna Rock is a play on the word Ragnarök, the Norse apocalypse, a battle between the Aesir and the giants that results in the death of many deities and the rebirth of the world.
  • The great snowstorm that takes place during the events of the first Max Payne is a reference to the Fimbulwinter, the epic winter that precedes Ragnarok.
  • The head of the Aesir Corporation is Nicole Horne; In the Ragnarok myth, the Giallar horn was sounded to announce the start of Ragnarok.
  • DEA agent Alex Balder, Max's partner, was shot by an assassin. In Norse mythology, Balder (or Baldur) was killed when a sprig or arrow of mistletoe was shot or thrown into his chest.
  • Alex is killed by his partner BB. Baldur's death is set up by Loki, god of chaos and deception, just as BB deceived Alex and Max.
  • Alfred Woden's surname refers to Woden, the Anglo-Saxon version of Odin, a major god of the Norse pantheon. Woden's eyepatch also references Odin, who sacrificed his eye for wisdom and knowledge.
  • Max meets Woden and the Inner Circle in the Asgard Building. Asgard is the Norse realm in which the gods lived.
  • The image on Max's necklace is a Viking longboat.
  • Max's adrenaline charged bullet-time abilities emulate the Berserkers, Viking warriors who drove themselves into such a frenzy when they entered battle that they seemed superhuman-strong, fast, untiring and unable to feel pain.
  • Jack Lupino's surname refers to the Fenris Wolf, Lupino being a reference to the Latin name for wolf, lupus. In Norse mythology, the Fenris Wolf is a large wolf bound by the gods, but it will eventually grow to large for its bonds and escape during Ragnarok.

Other mythology


Is it possible to find reliable sources that talk about these connections to the mythology? I think if a few can be sourced then the section can go back, with the unsourced items removed. Not every reference needs to be included to explain the mythology aspect of the game, so just a few could go back when sources are found. Also it may be better written as prose rather than a list of items, but the citations and sources are the most important part right now. ●Bill (talk|contribs) 10:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Somebody should really bring this back into the article. It really is a bit of informative trivia. - Frostmourne 16 (talk) 15:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
The captain of the Charon is Boris Dime. The Greeks used to place a coin in the mouth of the body. "Dime" is probably a reference to that. Also, the twins, Lisa Punchinello and Mona Sax are named after Mona Lisa, which doesn't have anything to do with mythology though. - Unknower (talk) 16:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Characters Section Added

It's a stub section right now and needs information added, but I listed all of the characters to make it easier. Have a go at it - it was the only section missing from this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.117.133.94 (talk • contribs) 01:42, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Although an interesting idea, I think that the section should not be added until the content is ready. I believe it should be discussed on the Talk page first before adding blank sections. Don't ask for information to be added on the article itself, as it just looks bad, and would be better for the Talk page. Also, don't forget to sign your posts. Closetoeuphoria 07:35, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Closetoeuphoria, hence my removing it. By all means add to it here before adding it to the article itself. To my mind, however, it's not an obviously notable part of the game. The description of the plot covers most of the pertinent aspects of each character. I can't see what would be getting added here beyond repetition or original research. Sorry. --Plumbago 07:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Pulp Fiction reference

I think that there is also a reference to the famous 1994 film by Quentin Tarantino. In Part One, Chapter Six there is a flat where an Ingram lies in the kitchen. And a gangster is caught using a toilet just like in Pulp Fiction. What do you think?

Having just finished the game....no. Lots42 (talk) 09:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Mona Sax and her sister, Lisa

There is a line in the Allusions section that states that Mona Sax and her sister Lisa are a reference to Lionardo da Vinci's Mona Lisa. While I can kinda see how one would get that idea, it still needs a source, or it could be declared original research and deleted as such. If someone deletes the fact tag again without providing a source for it, I'll delete the whole line myself as original research. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 06:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I had a good look for a source that confirms the link on google and IGN articles, but no success other than forums and wikis. Unfortunately, that whole section suffers from a lack of sources and could be removed at any time. Bill (talk|contribs) 15:00, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I encourage you to keep looking. There are a lot of people that are adament about this section's accuracy. There must be something out there. At this point, I'd accept a forum if you can show me that someone on the Max Payne development team took part in the discussion. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 08:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

That's it. Someone yanked the fact tag again, with the edit summary, "Gosh, it's obvious!", an obvious reference to Napoleon Dynamite. As a man of my word, the line is gone. I'll look at the rest of the section at my convenience and tag it acordingly. If those tags are pulled, I'll cut more of the section, maybe even the whole section. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 04:57, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Drug Name

I changed the drug name from Valkry throughout the article to Valkyr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.116.11.65 (talk) 09:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

NOIR

It's hard to believe that not a single word about the EXTREME film noir influences present in Max Payne are included in this article.

Some portions are scene for scene. Take the dream sequence from Murder My Sweet —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.227.236.60 (talk) 07:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

If you see a problem, do something about it. Find a source, preferably an interview with the developers, that talks about the heavy film noir influence on this game, then integrate it into the article. If the box references noir, the way the sequel's does, that will count as a source. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 06:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


I think that as far as the Films Noir go, it would be hard to find them directly relating to certain films. The real problem with Films Noir is that its hard to identify if it is indeed a genre or a style. If I make a game a tragedy, with a first person narrative, would that make my game a Noir? Yes, I feel in many ways the game makes references to Noir-esk stylizations but in reality the game can NEVER be considered a Noir. The real "Noir" period of Film ended with the 1960's where we entered the Neo-Noir period in this style/genre. In addition to this, we also the ending also results in a feeling of satisfaction. This would be unlike most classic Noir where the main character ends up typically dead. Had Max fallen to his death, or gotten killed by Valkyr that would make a more considerable argument for the Noir-esk aspects of the film. I think the reasons that Noir is not mentioned in the main article has to do with the reality that in many ways the game is not a Noir. It makes classic references to the Noir style but is a Neo-Noir at best. Lodenk (talk) 16:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Split

A very simple reason. This article talks both aabout the first game and the series. Perhaps this article should focus on the game alone and there be a new article on Max Payne (series)? Simply south (talk) 21:56, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I think that would be reasonable. Bill (talk|contribs) 23:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
I say go for it. Set up a special subpage on your userspace to work on this, then get some people you trust to help you put it together. As you work on it, there are certain things you should keep in mind:
  • Assert the notability of the series, not just the individual entries. This could be easy, but you may want to talk to a notability master for tips.
  • Keep it neutral. Any opinion should be that of a reviewer or a developer.
  • Source the living batcrap out of it. Nothing helps with notability, neutrality, and pretty much everything, like sources, references, citations, ect. As you develop the article, try to find as many sources as you can for each section, where possible.

Good luck in this endevor. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 07:15, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Splitting off is a good idea. I did it at Max Payne (series); of course, it's not complete, but it's a start. Gary King (talk) 19:43, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Characters

The character section is longer then the plot section. Something ain't right. Lots42 (talk) 09:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I can rectify that if you need me to. I'll work on it tonight and tomorrow, and I'll post it tomorrow night. Be prepared to lengthen/correct where neccesary. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 08:10, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Done. While I was at it, I converted it to prose, because that seems to be the standard on good articles. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 07:29, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the "rationale" for the repeated "good faith" vandalism edits by Larrythefunkyferret

"Reverted desummarizing of plot summary, coverting of characters from prose to list while adding minor characters, and gameguide material in the gameplay section."

  • "desummarizing of plot summary" - the plot is summarized alright (often even entire sub-chapters summarized in single sentences), this game has one very "deep" (and beautiful) in story for a shooting game. MAYBE it can be made shorter (why?), but the vandal's version is like a parody (including being very badly written).
  • "coverting of characters from prose to list while adding minor characters" - there is no characters section AT ALL in the vandalised version, no "prose" or anything there's simply nothing (or maybe he actually thinks Max is the only "non-minor character"?). I use the characters section (which again, is NEW) to write about the important stuff I didn't write in the plot section.
  • "and gameguide material in the gameplay section" - no such thing (that is besides the stuff already in the vandal's favoured version, which I just tweaked, and added about what weapons are used - by just listing some of them in one sentence).

At the same time, the vandal removed all my cleanup, all my improvements, the entire Development section (without any stated reason at all), as well the entire Characters section - as mentioned, everything about the Game Boy Advance version (which is very different, it's not even a 3D game - maybe that's this mysterious "gameguide material"??), and so on. He's vandalising mindlessly, or he's vandalising because he's just mean, I don't care. This game deserves so much better (I didn't check closely, but I believe the sequel has a quite good article - at least compared to this something).

And frankly it makes me quite angry, because I spent hours trying make this article perfect - researching the stuff on the early Internet (in particular for Development), checking what was already written in the previos versions and then rewriting it, even playing the game again (everything except the Reception section, which as you can see I marked for expansion). I was very proud of the final effect. And he vandalised all this with just 3 mouse clicks for the 3rd time already(!), and then lies again and again about his supposed reasons. If you don't believe me just compare the 2 versions.

Well, guess that's all. Thanks. --212.91.5.20 (talk) 15:27, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Also, as tagged by me, the reception section requires expansion (including the table for the magazine-review scores and what not). --212.91.5.20 (talk) 15:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

I'll admit that some of that stuff should have stayed, and for that, I'm sorry. The gameplay edits were pretty good, and the GameBoy and Development sections were ipmortant to have. I probably did a mass revert because I deal with a fairly large volume of articles, most of which attract fans more interested in making a fansite than an encyclopedia article.
However, I stand by my reversion of other parts. In general, Good articles tend to go for a plot summary of around 700 words or less. Before your edit, it had a word count of 745; it could yet use a bit of a trim. After your edit, it had a word count of 1009. Wikipedia is not meant to simply rehash the story; it has to add something to the reader's understanding, and an overly long plot summary, especially with chapter sections, is going to scare the average reader that has never played the game. Also, making it too long could be giving the story undue weight. See WP:PLOT and WP:UNDUE.
While the article does need a characters section, it does not need a characters section this big. It should only contain the important and possibly mid-importance characters, which, based on what I read (remember, I've never played the game), are Max Payne, Mona Sax, Nicole Horne, Alfred Woden, and Angelo Punchinello, with Vladimir Lem, Jack Lupino, B.B., Michelle Payne, and Alex Balder as Mi-importance characters. Everyone else I view as cruft. Also, the Wise Ones tend to prefer prose to list format; prose is easier to make encyclopedic, while lists tend to invite unsourced cruft.
I understand that Norse mythology plays a role in the overall feel of the game, but the section on it seriously needs to be sourced. It could easily be pulled as original research, especially in list format, and no admin would fault me for it.
Past that, you should probably continue to look for sources for the stuff you added; nothing ticks off the Wise Ones more than mass unsourced additions.
As for your comment on Max Payne 2, I actually worked on the plot summary of that one.
And I'm disturbed by your use of the term "vandal" to describe me. It implies that you assume bad faith, which is detrimental to the project. I provided a reasonable edit summary which described what I did, and even if it was not the best thing for the article, it wasn't vandalism, because I meant no ill will. Please do not assume that those you have disagreements with are all vandals. Trust me, I know vandals; I've got The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time on my watchlist, and you've not seen a vandal until you've seen the persistence of Dr 90s. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 09:29, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

"Reverted desummarizing of plot summary and addition of minor characters and unsourced references to Norse mytholog" II: Electric Boogaloo

Here we again.

You didn't play this game, so you have NO IDEA what you are doing here. For example, you have an apparent obsession for leaving "police units and their helicopter arrive" in "desummarized plot summary", while removing everything about the final boss (the armed helicopter) except when it's destroyed. So, the police helicopter has no meaning whatsoever (none at all, it just appears in a cutscene and does nothing), but the Aeris helicopter is stalking Max through the whole last level - seriously, which one is more important? The "minor characters" claim: for example, Vinnie is "no minor character" at all: one level is about getting to him, and the next is all about chasing him - and it ends in a boss fight. So he is actually more important than Vladimir in the 1st Max Payne game (now notice how I placed Vinnie above Vlad). And so on.

You don't know about all this, but I do know. And I actually only cleaned-up (since the last time) the Norse mythology references section (even merging them together). So, come on. Maybe go and find some hobby other then continous reverts with stupid reasons? God's sake, I thought you'd give up with this already. Just stop vandalising. You're not doing any good job here. Also at last play the game, or maybe at least watch the walkthrough or YouTube or whatever. Come back when you know something about the subject. --212.91.5.20 (talk) 12:16, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Better idea. If the article is now repaired, let me put it up for review on the Video Games Project page. If the edits you made have indeed made it better in the wise one's eyes, I'll issue an apology here. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 04:47, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Here's the peer review. Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Peer review/Max Payne Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 03:51, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

How about now. Btw the Edge article ("to do") is now used. --Asperchu (talk) 14:05, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm waiting for a full review. And yes, I'm happy about any references that can be added. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 03:48, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Just saw the article. If you can't listen to the advice of the wise ones, I'm leaving you to their decisions. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 03:55, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

And I'm done

The article is now finished. Now give me a medal or something. --Asperchu (talk) 16:23, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Awards table seems to be broken

I don;t know how to fix it. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 12:04, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Game setting exact month

The article states the main plot is set January 2001. In 2001, yes, no doubt, but what is the source of the specific month of January? --TheBearPaw (talk) 16:44, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Can someone add this somewhere?

"Max Payne" is also a play on words; Max has had (and does have) a very rough life and is an emotional/emo man. Max Payne could mean "maximum pain."

Thanks 71.194.87.164 (talk) 10:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Rockstar publishing Windows version?

On my windows version of the game, it has a notice that states: Published by Rockstar, along with the Rockstar logo on the disc, case, and box. It does not mention Gathering of Developers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ralfsmouse (talk • contribs) 19:36, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Archive 1
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