Talk:North Macedonia

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 May 2024

delete *North* from title of page 77.28.240.150 (talk) 23:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Macedonia) '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 23:49, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Macedinia is 25,713km2

Who updated this shit? 77.29.143.51 (talk) 12:40, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source to back up this figure? –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:18, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Never mind, I found that the figure in the article was unsourced and contradicted both the CIA World Factbook and UN Stats. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:30, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

@LaundryPizza03: Please take a look at this. Thank you.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:32, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Isn't the difference between 25,713 and 25,436 simply the difference between total area and total land area? A difference of almost 300 km² is too much to be just a technical effect of diverging measuring techniques, but it's a plausible figure for the total water area (lakes). My understanding is that our infobox should typically contain the total area, i.e. the larger figure (with the water area given in percent in the next line). Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:19, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

No, the figure of 25,436 km² denotes the total surface area, which includes both land and water. There’s even a time series of the total surface area measured at different points of time where you can notice that the previous fugure was 25,713 km².--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, that's odd. Honestly, I'd be inclined to assume that this is an error on the part of the Makstat website. 277 km² is too big of an area to just "vanish" between one measurement and the next - that's as if you had clipped off a strip of about half a kilometer's width along the edges of the country, along all the length of its borders. It's not as if cartography wasn't advanced enough to allow for measurements much more exact and realiable until just two years ago. On the other hand, the difference corresponds exactly with the figure of 1.1% of water surface that we are still citing to World Factbook – indeed, World Factbook is explicitly giving 25,433 as the land area, almost exactly the same figure as the newly claimed total surface area of 25,436. I'd say it's an easy enough slipup to make, and much easier to explain as such than as an actual change in measurements. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:25, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

It’s the official figure published by the State Statistical Office, which is the country’s government agency responsible for publishing official statistics. I don’t know if it’s an error or not, and I don’t know how one can prove if it’s so. The revised figure is used in a government document, a country report published by a German NGO, a research paper published in a peer-reviewed journal and in the country’s article on Encyclopædia Britannica (I was able to find even more research papers and other publications using the revised figure.). Your elaboration based on the total land area of 25,433 km² published by the CIA Factbook is inaccurate for the following reason. The country has the largest parts of Ohrid, Prespa and Dojran Lakes, whose combined total surface area is 660 km² (358 + 259 + 43 km²). This translates to a total water area of at least 330.1 km², which is greater than the total water area of 280 km² published by the CIA Factbook. That being said, I don’t rely on the CIA Factbook as a more reliable source than a government agency publishing official statistics in any country.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:33, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

update the dumb total land area. Its offical that it is 25,713km2. Only for Macedonia it only writes about land area without lake waters 77.29.146.28 (talk) 09:55, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Please carefully read the discussion above. According to the State Statistical Office, which is a government agency responsible for publishing official country statistics, the total area has been revised from 25,713 km² to 25,436 km². If you need further clarification regarding the revision, you can find their contact information on the official website and address your question there.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 12:54, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

North Macedonia was never under Persian rule

Throughout antiquity, the region where North Macedonia is now located was not part of the Achaemenid Persian Empire's territory. Historical maps from that era do not depict this region as part of the Persian Empire's holdings. Additionally, it's important to note that this region is not synonymous with ancient Macedonia, which was centered further south and included territories that are part of modern Greece. Skyuruka (talk) 15:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

I think you're right (it was on the border when the Persians were moving troops by land to invade Greece, or were invading Scythia, but it was never in). However, there are no available maps from that era, only much later retroactive maps. AnonMoos (talk) 16:39, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I misspoke. By 'maps of that era,' I meant maps showing the Persian Empire of that time. I mean, any map showing the Persian Empire does not include the current region of North Macedonia. Therefore, I suggest that the mention of the country once being part of that empire should be removed from the article. Skyuruka (talk) 04:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Krusevo republic

can someone add Krusevo republic in establishment history? 79.125.235.210 (talk) 19:27, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Land area is 25,713km2

land area is calculated with lake area too 79.125.235.210 (talk) 19:28, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

See #Macedinia is 25,713km2. CMD (talk) 01:43, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 July 2024

In this phrase from the introduction:

In 2018, the dispute was resolved with an agreement that the country

The word "agreement" is linked to Prespa Agreement. This is good, but someone could guess that it's an extraneous link to the agreement article. Please change the link from [[Prespa Agreement|agreement]] to [[Prespa Agreement|an agreement]] so that the link more clearly refers to this specific agreement. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 02:52, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done with a slight modification; I included the words "resolved with an agreement" so the distinction is more obvious. Left guide (talk) 05:26, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I suggest that under the demonym "Macedonian" we should also include the term "North Macedonian" in the article's tab

I suggest that under the demonym "Macedonian" we should also include the term "North Macedonian" in the article's tab with the description "(unofficial)" alongside for example, colloquially the vast majority of people usually describe something as being "North Macedonian" due to its association with the country in general and not the Macedonian ethnicity specifically. Take the Wikipedia article of east Timor for example which uses both terms East Timorese and Timorese in its demonym, or the articles about south and north Korea which also do the same although neither East Timor nor South and North Korea use officially any orientations alongside their endonyms but nonetheless the articles use them to make the content more accurate by also including the common global perception — Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎Marenguista di Napoli d'Attica (talk • contribs) 02:43, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

A demonym, if that's what you're referring to (not endonym as in your heading) is something more specific than just an adjective referring to "something" from a country. A demonym, by definition, is the word that refers to the country's inhabitants. For this country, that word is indeed "Macedonian", and only that. Fut.Perf. ☼ 05:31, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, the word I meant to say was demonym, excuse me for the typo, I fixed it, anyways. Yeah I agree with that statement but it isn't absolute, colloquially the term endonym is used by the global interception as I mentioned before to describe something which isn't specifically related with the ethnicity of a country but the country in general. You can check the examples I mentioned before, the articles of south and north Korea or East Timor. Marenguista di Napoli d'Attica (talk) 11:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Demonym*

My autocorrect keeps changing it, I apologize once again Marenguista di Napoli d'Attica (talk) 11:43, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

WP:MOSMAC reflects the decision of the wikipedia community and defines what naming should be used about North Macedonia, and a very concrete clique of people have put a lot of effort into ignoring these decisions. It would be nice if I could say that I agree with Future Perfect about the demonym, but I cannot do that because his argument contradicts himself and because of the effort he has made since 2019 to avoid using WP:MOSMAC. "North Macedonian" is absolutely correct wording for everything related to North Macedonia including people, and indeed the adjective "North Macedonian" was used in the main page of North Macedonia as a result of applying the decisions of wikipedians, but during the next years a clique of people who push their agenda found several excuses to avoid both the wording "North Macedonian" and the consensus reached in 2019. Right now there are ZERO usages of North Macedonian in the main page.

My comment regarding the demonym: the name of the people is not defined by any official document, otherwise we wouldn't discuss it. The name of the people is not defined for any country, not only for North Macedonia. Who defines what is the name for people of Germany, UK, Portugal, Brazil? No official document does it.

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and should report facts that rely on what wording is used to refer to people from North Macedonia based on reliable sources.

I have no reason to disagree that the majority of reliable sources uses plain "Macedonian" for the demonym, but a quick google search shows that the wording "North Macedonian" is used as well to refer to people of North Macedonia according to reliable sources and international organizations. Therefore, what is the motivation to hide this fact from wikipedia? We can include both as demonym and still use the plain Macedonian in the articles. Peace in balkans (talk) 10:56, 18 August 2024 (UTC)