Talk:Death of Sahar Khodayari

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Notability[edit]

It's all WP:ONEEVENT stuff in here so far. Can we get some more background biological details etc to show we should have an article about her? Or, should this page instead be Death of Sahar Khodayari (in much the same way Madeleine McCann redirects to Disappearance of Madeleine McCann)? 89.240.143.159 (talk) 21:42, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for your suggest. However, she is known more by Blue Girl inside Iran and in the international media. To name a few:1, 2, 3, 4 I have added some English refs already but clearly the article needs more information as to the event and the victim. Gharouni^Talk 01:24, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It sure would be nice to keep it as an article about her! I certainly hope so. But, we need to have an article about her if it has her name as its title. So we need to find sufficient information in suitable sources to justify it. 89.240.130.121 (talk) 15:26, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation[edit]

The article Blue Girl in Wikipedia English refers to a horse! [1] How can we set up a disambiguation page and proper redirect? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mimahoda (talk • contribs) 11:22, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In this case the title can be either her real nam as it is now or what has been suggested above as an event. Gharouni^Talk 11:51, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There does seem to be sufficient grounds for us to need to create Blue Girl (disambiguation) (or would lowercase be preferred? Blue girl (disambiguation)?). As well as Sahar Kogayari and the horse named Blue Girl there's also performance artist Eliza "Blue Girl" Schneider, Blue Girl Beer, tentacle hentai La Blue Girl (no, seriously), the character Blue Girl in play-turned-anime-series Oh! Edo Rocket, and arguably the band Black Tape for a Blue Girl. That's seven things people could be looking up. Seems to me a disambiguation page is not only advisable, it is vital. 89.240.130.121 (talk) 15:26, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Date[edit]

According to [2], she died on Friday, i.e. 2019-09-06. --Mewaqua (talk) 17:26, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The DW article said that local media reported it on Tues, Sept. 10. I could find no reference to Sept. 06. The Amnesty International release said that hospital officials said that she died Sept 09. That is the date I used, cited in this WP article to the Amnesty Int'l article.Parkwells (talk) 14:51, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Maziyar Bahari told DW that "Sahar died on Friday and the security services buried her immediately". --Mewaqua (talk) 13:43, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Too Much Quotations[edit]

Almost 50% of article is quotations. Wikipedia is not Wikiquote. According to MOS:Quote "using too many quotes is incompatible with an encyclopedic writing style." We can just mention those who expressed solidarity; And give details in special cases (e.g. A.S. Roma changed logo color).In2wiki (talk) 20:35, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Edit War[edit]

Hi @Hamedhbb:; Would you please stop this edit war? First let's discuss here? We can reach a consensus.(@Aryzad:; @Wikaviani:; @HistoryofIran:)In2wiki (talk) 21:24, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. i asked for page protection. A Youtube link to support a POV, even from Sahar's father , is an unreliable source, especially when we know the nature of the Islamic regime of the Mullahs who does not hesitate to put pressure on people to obtain some "confession" ...---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 21:28, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Aryzad:; @Wikaviani:; @HistoryofIran:) Thanks for trying to be fair. Your comment contradicts with the title though. Your comment is biased because of your political attitude. This is your judgment that is not necessarily correct regardless of my agreement. Let us take Persian civilisation to the next level by stop thinking on behalf of public and stop thinking we know more than them. That’s exactly what current regime is doing. Being clear is the best way forward. If you think it was a forced confession please at that to the content. Deal? Let people decide. Hamedhbb (talk) 21:45, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There can be a mention to the interview with the state-owned TV, but calling that "Sahar's father reaction" is not how it works. Aryzad (talk) 22:00, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

IRI sources are unreliable, this interview should not be included without extra care of due WP:WEIGHT.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:07, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

True, a natural source that covers all of the facts about the interview is needed. We cannot just use the Islamic tv's interview as a source. Aryzad (talk) 22:14, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Generally state-owned TV is not neutral; In controversial issues IRIB and state-owned media are not even reliable. In the midst of 2011 demonstrations IRIB broadcasted an interview with "Father of Sane Jaleh", a few years later it was revealed the man in interview wasn't Jale's father (was his cousin). It should be mentioned that his father said so in "state-owned TV". Right now Blue Girl's press coverage is banned in Iran by Supreme National Security Council, therefore any news from media in Iran (after her death) is heavily biased and reflects viewpoint of a small minority.In2wiki (talk) 22:55, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Aryzad: Try change the title then. @Wikaviani: Discard your POV.Hamedhbb (talk) 22:27, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Hamedhbb: Your above comment shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

"Let people decide", "That’s exactly what current regime is doing. Being clear is the best way forward." : You gotta be kidding me, do you seriously think that people can decide in Iran ? or that the Iranian regime is clear ? As i said, you just don't even know what you're talking about.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:28, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Wikaviani: The more you discuss the more you reveal your edit war is based on POV. Of course I am not talking about Iranian regime being clear. I am talking about a Wikipedia page!! Hamedhbb (talk) 22:32, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Let us take Persian civilisation to the next level" Not our job here on Wikipedia, just drop these kind of irrelevant posts. I'm not interrested in discussing with you anymore, since you don't know what you're talking about, you're not able to comprehend and write in English properly ( no offense, but take a look at WP:CIR ) and keep edit warring while no consensus has been achieved here yet. Now, admins should deal with you. Good night.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 22:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Wikaviani: You could be helpful by improving my British English and stop being disruptive to this page. You are breaching Wikipedia 5 pillars. You don’t have a neutral point of view, you stated many times that you don’t trust a video because “you” think he was forced. You don’t understand anyone can contribute and try to keep the page in the way “you” like it. You don’t seem to respect others perception of the fact and instead question my English. I would seriously doubt Wikipedia if an administrator ignores my edits based on the number of edit I have made and ignores your POV. It is not night where I am yet! Hamedhbb (talk) 22:58, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Editing issues[edit]

I really question quoting the long list of tweets in reaction to her death. Just because people responded, which is very easy in the current social media world, does not mean that each has to be quoted. Separately, I added that her family includes a sister, that Sahar was arrested in March 2019 and had to wait six months for her hearing, and that she reportedly had heard she might get a 6-month sentence.Parkwells (talk) 14:45, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

RfC for changing the current title to Death of Sahar Khodayari[edit]

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Clear consensus to rename, moving (closed by non-admin page mover) --DannyS712 (talk) 22:44, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The reason for making Sahar Khodayari notable is just her death. As WP:1E demand; In considering whether or not to create separate articles, the degree of significance of the event itself and of the individual's role within it should both be considered. The general rule is to cover the event, not the person. So isn't it better to change the current title to Death of Sahar Khodayari based on notability rules of Wikipedia?Saff V. (talk) 07:00, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I had a conversation with other users (above) regarding this matter. I agree. However, I prefer to wait for other users involved to participate and share their ideas. Just to prevent edit wars etc. Gharouni^Talk 10:34, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agree Parkwells (talk) 14:45, 1 October 2019 (UTC) : I have edited this to add some material about her life, but there is little available. I agree that a better title (as she is notable for her death, unfortunately) is "Death of Sahar Khodayari". I disagree with using "Blue Girl" as the title. I don't believe that will have staying power in terms of recognition. I've added material about the ban on women at football matches, when it began, etc., to provide more context for her action.Parkwells (talk) 14:45, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanamonde93: sorry to bother you, As I have searched among RSes, it is clear that the current title is not notable and as Parkwells confirmed, she is notable for her death, unfortunately, All in all "Death of Sahar Khodayari" is the best title. I wonder if you change it, I think it is not the issue need to RFC for solving! Thanks anyway!Saff V. (talk) 11:01, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agree I came to this page from the reliable sources noticeboard, from a brief review it seems clear that the event is notable and not the girl. Zortwort (talk) 13:23, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agree her story is sad but she wasn't notable before. If she didn't do what she did she might have been a notable figure. Sad!--SharabSalam (talk) 13:30, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Government response[edit]

Should we add official government answer http://radiofarda.com/amp/30164964.htmlîî 83.121.232.136 (talk) 04:58, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 6 October 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved per RfC above (closed by non-admin page mover) DannyS712 (talk) 22:44, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sahar Khodayari → Death of Sahar Khodayari – As RSes support, Unfortunately, she is not notable, the death of her is notable. All of the users who participated in RFC belongs to rename the article agree with changing the title to Death of Sahar Khodayari. Saff V. (talk) 08:07, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.