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What are "regional post offices"? I worked for the post office for ten years and there are no such things. Looking at some of the "List of ZIPCode" articles, it appears they are guesses for 3-digit numbers where the SCF is located elsewhere.Squad51 18:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at this list, it appears that someone has mixed up ADCs (Area distribution centers) with SCFs (at least here). Will make appropriate corrections.Squad51 00:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Age of sources

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How is a directory from 1996 still a reliable source? The article has links to USPS lists dated a full decade later. Unless we add a section on history, we should follow the latter. Doctor Whom 15:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely Incorrect

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This lists "Santa Barbara" 930-931. There isn't an SCF in SB but there is one in Goleta. I can see how this is referred to as Santa Barbara as that's what the Postmark says - however, in the industry we say Goleta not SB.

The Oxnard SCF is not even listed which handles 930, nor is Santa Clarita, which services almost all of the San Fernando Valley. Glaring.

Nobody's mixed up SCF's with DDU's or BMC's - the 1st 3 digits of a zip always correspond with an SCF. It appears to be just really really old data.

There is updated data in the back of the current USPS handbook.

If the information is out of date, be bold and update it. As for what a facility is called, both the requirement for verifiability and the prohibition on original research would seem to constrain us to follow what the USPS calls a facility, not what you call it "in the industry." 38.100.35.16 (talk) 23:56, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

different postmarks?

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It may be a sign of SCF consolidation, but I mailed a self-addressed item in Sharon, PA 161xx last year, and this year I mailed from locations in WV 260xx and OH 439xx, and all 3 items were postmarked in Pittsburgh. I don't have current SCF list in front of me and will not take it on myself to edit the SCF article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 18:20, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And an item from Michigan 484xx was postmarked in (Michigan) Metroplex 480.

North Carolina

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Got told this morning by our delivery person that the Eastern NC centers are all shut down due to Matthew. Got curious and did a lookup to see where they are located. In doing so, I found this article which mentions reductions at the Fayetteville NC center and a more recent comment saying Asheville NC was moved over to Greenville SC. The linked to sources are all 404ing and I can't find replacements right off. May have been renamed as well since I can find "Area Mail Processing centers" on the USPS site. Links follow.

http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/postal-service-moves-fayetteville-s-outgoing-mail-sorting-operations-to/article_e22a8ba0-4b1f-5f45-a86b-6b951e4d14f0.html

https://about.usps.com/streamlining-operations/area-mail-processing.htm

--172.72.47.40 (talk) 12:56, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Correct name "destination sectional center facility (DSCF)" not SCF

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According to the US Mail website, http://about.usps.com/publications/pub32/pub32_acn.htm these facilities are referred to as DSCFs not SCFs. There doesn't appear to be a page on Wikipedia for a Destination Sectional Center Facility (DSCF) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jetdougaljasmine (talk • contribs) 16:12, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That page also includes an entry for "SCF." Also, other USPS sources already cited in the article refer to that type of facility as an SCF. Doctor Whom (talk) 15:37, 7 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Out of date?

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There have apparently been a lot of P&DF/P&DC closings as per https://about.usps.com/streamlining-operations/area-mail-processing.htm. For example, the Springfield, MO P&DF is no more and all mail, even local mail, is now trucked via HCR to the KCMO P&DC for processing. Should this page be significantly updated to account for that? cluth (talk) 00:52, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, of course it should, but please be sure to use the latest versions of the references. The L002 and L005 lists currently linked from this article are still valid as of this writing. Doctor Whom (talk) 16:37, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Caveat about the difference with Network Distribution Centers (NDC).

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You should not take the information in the table to be also true for NDCs.

USPS publication L601 (Labeling lists) details zip codes by NDC, not SCF.

For example, Memphis TN NDC is assigned to zip codes 369-372, 375, 380-397, 700, 701,703-705, 707, 708, 713, 714, 716, 717, & 719-729 for inward mail. These zips are assigned to SCFs in Arkansas, MS and other TN locations.

The article says that Memphis SCR has only 375 and 380-383 (as well as 723 & 724 of Arkansas). 2600:1700:EA01:1090:20FE:B5F8:5969:23BC (talk) 07:23, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Civil or civilian?

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Does anyone have a reliable source for either? Doctor Whom (talk) 16:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies. I never thought to check this area to discuss this.
I have a source, being oxford languages. If you need a USPS source, I simply don’t see civil or civilian used in USPS publications but rather just SCF.
from Oxford dictionary: civil: “relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters”
a civil SCF is just that. It relates to ordinary civilians, and is separate from the military.
also from Oxford dictionary: civilian: of, denoting, or relating to a person not belonging to the armed services or police.
civil is the more appropriate form here. It’s how it has been on this page for years. Civil SCFs, just like we have civil courts, civil rights, civil aviation, civil service, etc….
It’s getting really frustrating to deal with the incessant warring. I’d like this to end as it is extremely immature 195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 06:06, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Miriam Webster also is a reliable source proving my same point in different terms.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civil
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian 195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 06:12, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccurate edit

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User “Praiawart” needs to be restricted from editing the section headers if possible. Civil is the proper form. Praiawart is insistent that it is civilian when it is not.

from Oxford dictionary: civil: “relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters”

a civil SCF is just that. It relates to ordinary civilians, and is separate from the military.

also from Oxford dictionary: civilian: of, denoting, or relating to a person not belonging to the armed services or police.

civil is the more appropriate form here. It’s how it has been on this page for years. Civil SCFs, just like we have civil courts, civil rights, civil aviation, civil service, etc….

It’s getting really frustrating to deal with the incessant warring. I’d like this to end as it is extremely immature. 195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 06:04, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Civil or civilian (consensus needed)

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From Merriam-Webster (https://www.merriam-webster [dot] com/dictionary/civilian), "civilian", when used as an adjective:

"of, or relating to, or made up of civilians."

The examples of using it in a sentence are:

"civilian concerns/demands" "the civilian population" "civilian customers/casualties" and "The Congressional Gold Medal and the Presidential Medal of Freedom are the highest civilian honors in the United States."

Another source: https://imagevault [dot] cloud/JKE5SU


The term is being used to denote civilian SCFs as opposed to those solely for the military. PLEASE explain to me how "civilian" is improper. Praiawart (talk) 15:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please see my response under “civil or civilian” and my post titled “inaccurate edit”. I have laid out in clear terms that civil is in fact proper, and provided supporting evidence as well as sources. 195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 15:53, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
from Oxford dictionary: civil: “relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters”
a civil SCF is just that. It relates to ordinary civilians, and is separate from the military. 195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 15:54, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know enough about this subject to give an informed opinion, but here's a list of All pages with titles beginning with Civil and All pages with titles beginning with Civilian (hope this helps). StonyBrook babble 13:45, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, thank you for your helpful advice! We have agreed to keep it as civil, dispute resolution will not be needed at this point. Thank you. 195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 14:18, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"We" have not agreed to keep it as "civil", as that is not proper, I have only agreed to go through this dispute the proper way instead of continuing to edit war. Praiawart (talk) 23:25, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am aware that you are now seeking a third opinion. 195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 00:03, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that civil is proper.
Civil is the proper form. Praiawart is insistent that it is civilian when it is not.
from Oxford dictionary: civil: “relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters”
a civil SCF is just that. It relates to ordinary civilians, and is separate from the military.
also from Oxford dictionary: civilian: of, denoting, or relating to a person not belonging to the armed services or police.
civil is the more appropriate form here. It’s how it has been on this page for years. Civil SCFs, just like we have civil courts, civil rights, civil aviation, civil service, etc…. 195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 00:11, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You "agree" with whom? As far as I've seen, you are the only one who thinks "civil" is proper. Why are you trying to subvert my attempts to resolve this dispute properly, such as seeking a third opinion? Praiawart (talk) 20:33, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Response to third opinion request: Hi @Praiawart and @195gadowikchxbdjr. In this context, I have to concur that "civilian" more accurately reflects what is in this article. Also, it having been on this page for years is not a good argument that it should not be changed.
That said, as @StonyBrook pointed out, there are many instances of these terms being used reasonably interchangeably.
I propose you two try to find sources which describe it as one or the other, and if there aren't any, maybe eliminate the distinction between the two categories and just list them by location. CVDX (talk) 22:18, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looking into it, I found reputable orgs which use both civilian and civil in a context where the two are juxtaposed with the Military. However, what matters most here is how we go about things on WP itself, where 'civil' definitely seems to be preferred, while 'civilian' gets the shaft in this regard (with the exceptions of Military–civilian administration—only a list of topics—and Civilian dictatorship as opposed to Military dictatorship). CVDX, I find the section headers helpful, of course using whichever descriptor will ultimately be agreed upon. StonyBrook babble 23:36, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay everyone, let's try to form a consensus. I vote for "civilian" because, notwithstanding @StonyBrook mentioning that "'civilian' gets the shaft" on WP, I think it's a better descriptor than "civil".
I say this because "civil", when used as an adjective, has many other meanings in addition to "nonmilitary". According to Merriam-Webster, "civil" when used as an adjective can mean:
1. based on the theoretical mean sun and legally recognized for use in ordinary affairs
2. of, relating to, or involving the general public, their activities, needs, or ways, or civic affairs as distinguished from special (such as military or religious) affairs
3. of or relating to citizens
4. of or relating to the state or its citizenry
5. civilized
6. adequate in courtesy and politeness : MANNERLY
7. of, relating to, or based on civil law
8. relating to private rights and to remedies sought by action or suit distinct from criminal proceedings
9. established by law
Whereas, on the other hand, "civilian" (when used as an adjective) means:
1. of, relating to, or made up of civilians
2. having the status of a civilian
3. operated or controlled by civilians
4. possessed by or vested in civilians
5. intended or suited for use or consumption by civilians
I think it's clear from those definitions that "civilian" is the more clear term in this context. "Civilian" unequivocally always means "nonmilitary", while "civil" has many different definitions. Sectional center facilities are not something that I'd say an ordinary person would know are split up into military and nonmilitary branches, so someone who visits this page for the first time and sees the heading "Civil SCFs" could possibly be stumped as to what exactly is meant by that until he scrolls down and sees "Military SCFs". On the other hand, someone who comes to this page for the first time, knowing little to nothing about SCFs and sees the heading "Civilian SCFs" will probably immediately think "military/nonmilitary". It's just more clear of a term, in my opinion.
195gadowikchxbdjr inadvertently proved my point when he mentioned "civil courts." (See above, "civil is the more appropriate form here. It’s how it has been on this page for years. Civil SCFs, just like we have civil courts, civil rights, civil aviation, civil service, etc…."). When a court is described as "civil", that doesn't mean it's a nonmilitary court. It's typically used to distinguish it from criminal court, which is typically civilian court as well. Civil court, civil cases, etc. refer to areas of law that don't result in imprisonment, such as a lawsuit seeking money damages.
In conclusion, I agree with @CVDX's statement that "[i]n this context, I have to concur that 'civilian' more accurately reflects what is in this article. Also, it having been on this page for years is not a good argument that it should not be changed."
I'd encourage other users to vote on civil/civilian so we can reach a consensus and stop this unproductive and childish edit war. Praiawart (talk) 15:27, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are the only one who wanted the edit war. L195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 16:14, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Civil it should be, for my above stated reasons many times 195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 16:35, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposing third way as compromise

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Notwithstanding any future input from additional editors in the previous section—which is encouraged—at this point in time we have arrived at basically the same place at which we started—namely an impasse regarding the implementation of two basically interchangeable terms in a section header. Along the lines of CVDX's proposal above to eliminate the headers entirely, I would suggest instead that in place of using either "Civil SCFs" or "Civilian SCFs" for the first header, we use U.S. states and territories; and in place of using "Military/Diplomatic SCFs" for the second header, we use U.S. Military/Diplomatic. There is no need to have "SCFs" in the headers due to it being repetitive: SCFs are what this whole article is about in the first place. Thoughts? StonyBrook babble 21:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I like that idea and I agree that it makes more sense than anything we were doing before. I’d love to end this silly and pathetic edit war that @Praiawart started, I think this is the way to do it. Thank you for the suggestion I think it should be implemented
I will also note as a separate point that much of the info in this article is soon to become obsolete over the next few years assuming all current proposed USPS reforms are implemented. If anyone else with serious knowledge of this subject (unlike @praiawart) wants to discuss further we can definitely do so. 195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 22:08, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you strike the above comment regarding praiawart, and to refrain from using language like this in the future, which is highly uncollaborative and only raises the temperature. See WP:NPA. StonyBrook babble 22:18, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I like the suggestion, having "SCF" in the header really is unnecessary, and this simple solution might allow both editors to feel satisfied with the outcome. I'd also like to echo @StonyBrook in that I feel there's no need for accusations or name calling here. CVDX (talk) 22:24, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’m definitely satisfied! 195gadowikchxbdjr (talk) 22:31, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is a good outcome as well. Certainly the new headers are more appropriate than "Civil SCFs" and "Military SCFs". I'd like to thank @StonyBrook and @CVDX for their helpful input. I recommend @195gadowikchxbdjr stick to editing articles on topics he actually has knowledge of (if any such articles exist) because it's clear that this is not one of them. Praiawart (talk) 23:00, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Glad it all worked out. I'll just leave this here for further reading. StonyBrook babble 16:38, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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