Talk:St. Xavier High School (Ohio)

St. Xavier High School (Ohio) is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 22, 2011	Featured article candidate	Not promoted

United States: Ohio / Cincinnati Low‑importance

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Schools High‑importance

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Mascots

Isn't the "Blue Monster" still considered one of the school's mascots? It was introduced as a mascot during the 2004-05 school year, and although Fr. Deye announced in June that it won't replace the Bomber, he never indicated that the Blue Monster would cease to be one of the school's mascots. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs, blog) 06:57, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

While there's nothing official saying it's not a mascot, there was absolutely no mention of it in the 05-06 year. Chandlerm06 05:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vidit Mirabilia Magna

I've never seen or heard of this motto; I graduated in June 2005. Is this motto new? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs, blog) 20:04, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vidit Mirabilia Magna is found on the seal of St. X and is one of the general motto of the Soceity of Jesus coming from a statement by St. Ignatius. I graduated in 2003 and it would be mention now and again. 24.209.243.37 10:42, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, thanks for the clarification. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs, blog) 02:15, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Photo needed

This article needs a photo to illustrate it, perhaps a photo of the school's front façade and entranceway. We could take a current photo from the school's website and include it under fair use, but it would be preferable to get an image that could be licensed freely. We could take a historical photo or two from their website, though. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs, blog) 02:21, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Page title

Although St. Xavier isn't technically within the Cincinnati city limits, it's known elsewhere as "Cincinnati St. Xavier" when playing sports, because it's very close to Cincinnati proper. So I suggest moving this article to either St. Xavier High School (Cincinnati, Ohio) or St. Xavier High School, Cincinnati, Ohio. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs, blog) 05:12, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism Removed

"This is the gayest motto of any school anywhere.

Many sexual-related scandals have shattered the integrity of St. Xavier High School. Recently, in the 2004-2005 school year, several St. Xavier students were reprimanded for selling professional pornography. There have also been many rumors of the large amount of homosexuals that have walked through the doors of St. Xavier. In a recent poll, 58.7% of current St. Xavier students declared that they have had sexual contact with another male."

This section is totally inappropriate. While there was a pornography incident, unless a whole NPOV section is going to be done on the public's differing views of St. Xavier, this really does not fit into the entry for the high school. The rest of what was written is pure slander. I reverted to the last edit by MXN. Candybars 18:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There was also more point of view, un-noteworthy, and unprofessional content added since I last visited this article. I've tweaked some parts and removed others. I'm using the teacher's first names as they appear at the school's faculty listing. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 06:00, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, to future editors, please note that it is possible to write professional, balanced information about school scandals; just take a look at the article of another Catholic, all-male high school in Cincinnati: Elder. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 06:03, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

State championships

24.12.186.225 removed the line "St. Xavier has won a state championship in every sport in which it fields a team, except for bowling." Out of curiosity, in which sports besides bowling has St. X not won a state championship? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:56, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Of the 11 Team Championship sports the OHSAA sponsors, St. Xavier has never won a title in Track and Field, Wrestling, Hockey (X added Varsity in 2004), and Bowling (new in Ohio in 2007). With a title in 7 of 11 sports, X is 2nd in Ohio for largest variety of boys titles. St. Ignatius has 9 of 11 (missing Swimming(they have two runner-ups) and Bowling. EagleFan 00:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay... so apparently St. X now has a total of 39 state titles, but we're missing one in the list. Which is it? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:57, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

St. Xavier only has 37 OHSAA team titles. The OHSAA has no Tennis team state championship so i removed that from the list. Xavier is first all time in Boys titles, second all time in total team titles, 1 behind Upper Arlington's 38 titles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EagleFan (talk • contribs) 05:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to the school's website, though, they have 39. I've changed it back to 39 for now, since I'd imagine the school would know how many they've won... Do you happen to know of a website that lists school sports titles, so we can cite that instead of the school's website? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 09:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My data is from OHSAA state programs and is very accuarte. I wish the Xavier website would list the 39 so we can see what two titles they have that the OHSAA data does not have. I suspect they are counting two non-OHSAA state titles of some sort, such as Lacrosse, Rugby, Boys Volleyball, Crew, or Bowling. I've asked the OHSAA to publish all team titles on their website, which could be the official on-line citation we need. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EagleFan (talk • contribs) 11:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your help! – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 06:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Came in second in basketball in 2000 also did not win in cross country —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.185.27.151 (talk • contribs) 23:25, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can you prove it? The two sources that I just added to the article indicate that St. X did win the championships that year. Also, you subtracted from the total incorrectly. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 04:36, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

St. Xavier beat Bedford in the 2000 state championship game 63-54. [1] They also won their 3rd Cross Country title in 2003 [2], [3], [4] EagleFan 14:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okey-dokey, St. X finally published the full list of championship titles: [5] Enjoy. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 08:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Elite

I previously removed the word "elite" from the first paragraph, but 64.93.132.26 put it back in. Bergerng originally added the word. I'd agree with the characterization as "elite", but Wikipedia has a Neutral point of view policy, so I'm not sure it fits in here. If someone can elaborate on St. X's perceived arrogance in a separate section, "elite" would fit there. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 08:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

FIPS55

FIPS55 code for St. Xavier is completely unnecessary. Mxn, I'm puzzled by why'd you want it in there in the first place. Do you have some reason apart from a particular whim? Killua 18:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, basically just a whim. I would've appreciated it if you'd offered an explanation the first time, but sorry about that. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:50, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Notable alumni

The notable alumni list looks well researched, but some of the listees don't meet wikipedia's guidelines for Wikipedia:Notability (people). I have added the link to the school's name for a few of them but articles should be created for the ones with red links.Mfields1 00:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Article assessment

I've rated this article "Class B" and "low importance", according to the rubrics at Wikipedia:WikiProject Education/Assessment and Wikipedia:What is a good article?. In particular, the article does a good job of:

Providing prose instead of plain lists, according to the policy on lists.
Linking to relevant articles in the text, but also explaining jargon (e.g., AMDG) where necessary.
Staying away from trivia and avoiding an overly positive or negative point of view.
Except for the occasional bout of vandalism, the article is very stable.

But the article needs some work on:

Citing significant information with appropriate references; some sections are well-sourced, but others – namely, "Athletics" – need a bit of work.
The "Academics" section – it's a school we're talking about, after all. The admissions and curriculum information is useful, but it would help to have more detailed information about student life at St. X.
The school made national headlines a couple times in the past few years regarding hazing and pornography scandals. These should at least be mentioned, but we should be careful not to place undue emphasis on them, as the scandals were mostly confined to one class and weren't representative of the school as a whole.
Images! St. X has a photography class, so there must be a photographer somewhere. Someone needs to go out there and snap a photo of the school! (I'm in California, so I can't do it myself.)

I've given this article a "low importance" rating because it's an individual school that doesn't have a big impact on education as a whole. (This evaluation pertains to WikiProject Education; a "WikiProject Cincinnati" or even WikiProject Ohio might find this article more important.)

– Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 00:51, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Radio Club

Other Clubs: You missed out the Radio Club which has been in operation for decades. W8GYH is the club call sign. Perhaps a current member can provide some recent information and some history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imflyboy (talk • contribs) 7:33, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the info; I couldn't remember their call sign. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Enrollment graph

The enrollment graph looks odd because the bars are not evenly spaced. This would look better as a simple table of year and population because there are only 6-7 bars to the graphs. If this was ordered by regularly spaced years it might be more useful. If I knew how to edit the data into a table I would do it but II don't know how. In my opinion the graph adds nothing to the article but instead detracts visually. Mfields1 00:02, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I was hoping to eventually find some more data points, but that doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon. I'll convert it to an ordinary table, since as it is, the table doesn't show any significant trends except going up. The EasyTimeline syntax is documented here, in case you find an article where a chart makes more sense. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 02:57, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Notable alumni criteria

Because this article (like any high school article) often gets non-notable additions to the "Notable alumni" list, I've written out some criteria for inclusion in the list. It's available in a large comment at the beginning of that section, so hopefully people don't miss it. Feel free to make any reasonable changes or comment on it below; I definitely don't mean for this to be a hard-fast rule, just something to guide new editors, as a supplement to Wikipedia:Notability. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 21:18, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We are trying to compile a list of the most notable St. Xavier alumni. As a rule of thumb, we include the person:

if Wikipedia has an article about the person;
if another article at Wikipedia links to a possibly non-existent article about the person; or,
regardless, if the person is notable enough for his own article at Wikipedia. Please see Wikipedia:Notability (people).

Please provide a source or sources that:

establish that the person is notable enough that he should have his own article; and
indicate that the person attended St. Xavier (but not the one in Louisville).

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

"Enquirer Daugherty" :
- {{cite news|url=http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:NewsBank:CEQB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=11BD45BD40639FE8&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB579A3BDA420|title=Rankings rankle St. X coach|author=Paul Daugherty|last=Daugherty|first=Paul|work=The Cincinnati Enquirer|publisher=Gannett Company|date=2007-09-21|page=C1|accessdate=2007-09-28}}
- {{cite news|title=Going to St. Xavier not a phase|author=Paul Daugherty|first=Paul|last=Daugherty|work=[[The Cincinnati Enquirer]]|publisher=[[Gannett Company]]|date=2005-12-01|accessdate=2008-05-05|url=http://www.stxavier.org/s/106/stxavier.aspx?pgid=327&ecid=1450|quote=A motto there is Men For Others. It's part of the Jesuit tradition, the notion of giving back. They all mention it when you ask what the place meant to them.}}

DumZiBoT (talk) 12:59, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 09:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Academics section out of date

The "Academics" section is probably out of date. I wrote pretty much the whole section, having attended St. X until 2005. I know things have changed since then. For one, the daily schedule has changed considerably, with "Flex Times" and what appears to be a different class order every day of the week. I'm not sure I know what's going on there. The paragraph about computers is probably wrong now, too. It'd be awesome if a current student could update the section.

– Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 04:04, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More about the Meadmore sculpture

– Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 06:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

I've commented out the county parameter, because the punctuation isn't correct. I'd fix the template myself, except that it's been locked, and I'm not an administrator here. Hamilton County is linked from the second sentence of the article, so I think it's okay to leave it out of the infobox for now. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 09:02, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia

Some trivia, in case the article later has room for it:

St. X comes up in two court cases that I'm aware of:
- Geraci v. St. Xavier High School, 13 Ohio Op. 3d 146, 1978 WL 195016 (Ct. App. 1st Dist. Hamilton County 1978). [6][7]
- Alerding v. Ohio High Sch. Athletic Ass'n 779 F.2d 315 (6th Cir. 1985) [8]
Phil Cox was St. X's first black graduate – Kent, Jennifer (1990-08-21). "Risks rewarded - Phil Cox's financial services firm has more than 10,000 clients" (fee required). The Cincinnati Post. E. W. Scripps Company. p. C6. Retrieved 2009-09-13. 'A lot of times people will ask three times if I'm Phil Cox. I know I've lost business because I'm black,' said [Phil] Cox, the first black graduate of St. Xavier High School where he attended on a scholarship. {{cite news}}: More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help)
In 1984, the United States Department of Education recognized St. X as one of the 61 best private schools in the country – Petrie, Laurie (1990-12-08). "St. Xavier High president resigns" (fee required). The Cincinnati Post. E. W. Scripps Company. p. A1. Retrieved 2009-09-13. In 1984, the U.S. Department of Education listed St. Xavier among the 61 best private schools in the country. {{cite news}}: More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help)

– Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 20:48, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, some research on TX that may be useful for finding good sources:

Bye Bye Birdie in the early '80s [9][10]

– Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 09:26, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Length

So this article is now the ~~751^st~~ 693^rd-largest article at the English Wikipedia, ahead of such obscure topics as Thomas Jefferson, Germany, Dinosaur, ‎List of X-Men members, and most embarrassingly, Xavier University (Cincinnati). I may need to spread the editing-love to other articles eventually, but in the meantime, I'm planning to split off the alumni section into its own "List of..." article. The alumni section and all its citations currently take up four screens by my reckoning. If someone wants to beat me to it, go right ahead. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 09:17, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Finally got around to doing this: List of St. Xavier High School (Ohio) people. Minh Nguyễn ^💬 22:19, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statues

It's my understanding that the large statue in front of the school is of St. Ignatius, while the much smaller statue that presides over the mission collection basket in the main stairwell depicts St. Xavier. In fact, I remember being told to clarify this distinction when giving Open House tours way back when. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:20, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Faculty Changes

Today, May 2nd 2012, Mr. Dave Mueller announced he would retire in June 2013, I'm not necessarily sure how to cite that. Plus, many new teachers have recently been hired, particularly among the Freshman classes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WillWeber22 (talk • contribs) 22:48, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As soon as St. X puts out a press release or it makes the news, we can add it here. It wouldn't make much sense to note it in the article until the time comes, but thanks for the heads-up. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 18:15, 11 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I've noted Mr. Sandquist as the interim principal for the coming school year. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 17:37, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Championship titles

@Meeper27: I think the list was more readable with year ranges rather than an enumerated list of years. The ranges made it much easier to see when St. X's multiple winning streaks began and ended. If you're concerned about making it easier to tally up the individual years, we could say "1970–1981 (12), 1984, 1990–1995 (6)" and so on. Does that sound reasonable to you? – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 04:36, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Mxn: That sounds like a good compromise. I think doing the year ranges and tallying up each consecutive string helps prevent two possible points of confusion. The way you suggest should help prevent people from believing that the start and end of each run were the only two championship years. Also, it would help with the readability; I acknowledge that reading twelve years listed in a row can be pretty hard on the eyes! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meeper27 (talk • contribs) 02:29, 22 March 2015‎ (UTC)[reply]

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:St. Xavier High School (Ohio)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

See "Article assessment" below.

Last edited at 01:54, 1 January 2012 (UTC). Substituted at 06:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Pronunciation

See Talk:Xavier University#Pronunciation regarding recent back-and-forth regarding the pronunciation guide for "Xavier" in this article. – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 05:31, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

College athletes in notable alumni section

Hi Meters, regarding this revert of yours, I don't disagree that Sean Clifford is notable and sourced, but this section isn't intended to be comprehensive. On several occasions, editors have removed less notable athletes from this section in attempt to make it more digestible. But maybe I read too much into your previous removal of minor league players; seems like you're drawing a distinction between minor leagues and college teams. In any event, Category:St. Xavier High School (Cincinnati) alumni has some additional college athletes, and I've also been using Category talk:St. Xavier High School (Cincinnati) alumni#For future reference as a staging ground for the alumni who are probably notable enough for an article but not enough to make this abridged list given previous deletions. If you think it's time to revisit this approach and list notable college athletes, then we should reintroduce more of the alumni from these two pages to avoid recentism. Or maybe it's finally time to split out a List of alumni of St. Xavier High School (Ohio)... Minh Nguyễn ^💬 05:43, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My summary in the edit you linked to starts off with " no article ". The comment about minor leaguers rarely being notable is just to point out that we cannot presume notability for minor leaguers.

Why do you say this list is not intended to be comprehensive? You made that unilateral declaration on the talk page 14 years ago. There was no discussion or consensus. This isn't supposed to be a list of just those alumni you personally feel should be mentioned. Please read WP:ALUMNI. I could see trimming a really lengthy list of notable alumni to just a short list of very notables when there is a main list article that includes everyone, but I I don't believe there is such an all-inclusive list for this school. The list is probably long enough to warrant doing that here

I don't make any distinction between different leagues for athletes. I make a distinction between alumni who have a Wikipedia article to show their notability and those who don't. Period. For an article such as this one, without a separate standalone list article of alumni, if an alumnus has an article to show their notability and their attendance is sourced they should be listed. If they don't have a Wikipedia article then they likely do not belong on the list. There are very rare exceptions when we can assume an alumnus is notable without an article, but that exception for athletes has been tightened recently. Even pro athletes and Olympic athletes (at least non-medal winners) no longer get a free pass. Meters (talk) 06:58, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Meters: As I said, I have no objection to broadening this list to include everyone in Category:St. Xavier High School (Cincinnati) alumni, and perhaps I simply misunderstood your intention at the time. I'll go ahead and add the others now, and we can split off a separate list article after that. That split would make the list of references a lot less unwieldy as a side benefit. Minh Nguyễn ^💬 07:22, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, that was a lot less than I expected: just one addition. I guess I've already added the others over the years as they went pro. Sorry to bother you in that case, and thanks for the reference to WP:ALUMNI. Minh Nguyễn ^💬 07:42, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, the category is now at Category:St. Xavier High School (Ohio) alumni. – Fayenatic London 14:05, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I finally got around to splitting out List of St. Xavier High School (Ohio) people. This gives us room to make several improvements that weren't as feasible when it was just a section in the larger article: duplicating some people who are notable in more than one field, adding photos of the most well-known alumni, subdividing the list of athletes by sport, and more. – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 22:17, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]