Talk:Voodoo (D'Angelo album)/GA2

GA Review

Hi, I will be reviewing your article. Looking it over, it looks very good except for one problem: I think there are too many quotes, expecially long ones. I believe there is a rule that a quote should not be over three or so lines to avoid copyright issues. I will be adding more comments. —Mattisse (Talk) 22:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You could paraphrase some of them, and resist the temptation to put so many quotes in the paragraphs also. I know you have the ability to put much of this in your own words. Otherwise, the article is well organized, well written, and well referenced. A good article.

I don't think you can justify three fair use images, even though they are album covers, as they are all of the same album.

I limited the quotes. All of them are now three lines long or shorter. Dan56 (talk) 03:20, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are still too many quotes and too long ones. For example:

The second quote is four and one half lines long and is followed in the next sentence by another quote: "According to D'Angelo, the album was named Voodoo because 'the myriad influences found on it can be traced through the blues and back deeper in history through songs sung–in religious [voodoo] ceremonies.'"

As to the first quote mentioned above, most of it is obvious (that a song writer is motivated) and such influences as the birth of his son do not have to be quoted but could be described by you. The second quote does not explain the "myriad of influences" that resulted in the album being named Voodoo. The relationship between voodoo and the album is really only touched on by mentioning other genres. What are voodoo songs like?

Voodoo needs disambiguation.

Under Production when you say "time" do you mean meter? The way you use the word in the paragraph is very jargonish. You want to be clear to the average reader who may not be familiar with the subject.

"this style of drumming is its adherence to human timing" - does this mean that tracks were mostly programmed mechanically or exactly, so that they were not sloppy like human drumming?

Why is "co-pilot" in quotes?

"It was written in, D'Angelo's son, Michael's honor." How about, It was written in honor of D'Angelo's son, Michael.

"By the time of its release, five of the album's tracks had already or would later be released as singles." This sentence is contradictory. It reads: "By the time of its release, five of the album's tracks would later be released as singles." The "later" did not happen "by the time of its release".

Diatribe needs disambiguation.

"Many of D'Angelo's peers have noted the success of Voodoo, the music video for "Untitled", and "The Voodoo Tour" as influencing factors in the musician's period of absence following the tour." So the success of Voodoo video was in part responsible for his absence (from what? the music scene? the social world in general?) because women called for him to take off his clothes, having seen the nude video?

I tried to fix up the article, but i dont understand how the second quote is 4 and a half lines long. It looks like three. Dan56 (talk) 18:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you have a screen much larger than mine. The point is that there are too many quotations. That long one actually repeats some of what you have already written above.

Also, I removed the autoformatted dates as they are now deprecated per MOS:NUM. Specificially Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Date_autoformatting

More comments

You reverted my removal of the date autoformatting. Do you wish to use a deprecated feature? There are good reasons why it is deprecated. Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Date_autoformatting. You also reverted User:Tony1's removal of you autoformatted dates, and he is king of MoS at FAC.

"Following Voodoo's release, D'Angelo embarked on what would become one of the most fabled series of live soul shows in history, "The Voodoo Tour"." Using fabled is POV. You would need a direct quote and even then it seems over the top.

Are you sure the quotes are too much? Cuz there are other good articles which have just as much, if not more, quotes. For example, Illmatic and Enter the Wu-Tang Dan56 (talk) 22:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are right about one of those articles, Enter the Wu-Tang, although it was promoted to WP:FA over a year ago (January 2007) when standards were lower. The quotations, I believe, would be an issue now if it were a WP: FAC. Illmatic was demoted from FAC status because it had so many quotations. See [1]. I asked the advice of another editor and he said your article was currently "borderline" in terms of the quotations, but he noted that most of the quotes do not add anything and repeat was you have already said. It depends on what you aspire to in terms of article quality. You are a good writer. I enjoy reading your articles and you work hard. I would like to see your articles be the best they can be.

A few well chosen quotes have more impact than lots of long quotes. Pick ones that say something you cannot say or that make a key point. Mostly, you are very good at summarizing in your own words, often better than the quote does.

"The live show was a thinly-disguised homage to Prince's late 80's shows, in its grandeur and conceptual stage set up and set list." needs a citation as it is somewhat POV.

I deleted the sentence for now, until the person who added it gets back to me with a source. Dan56 (talk) 21:12, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments - Request for second opinion

I still have reservations about this article because of the following

Replaced autoformatting of dates; without autoformatting the dates are in the wrong format for a U.S. article. Autoformatting of dates is deprecated and autoformatting should be removed.
Excessive use of quotes both in quotes boxes and embedded in the body of the article
The use of 3 Fair Use images - I think this is excessive for this article
I am unsure of this article is NPOV

Therefore, I am going to request a second opinion. —Mattisse (Talk) 18:48, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As for the images, I agree that this article pushes the limits of "fair use" a little too far. The image in the infobox is in keeping with many other album articles, and I don't see a problem with it. Claiming fair use to show a second image with a slightly different color scheme seems unnecessary. And as for the "Untitled" video image, the article doesn't provide any commentary on the image. It simply mentions that it is a controversial video. If this is because he isn't wearing a shirt (which I doubt), that would have to be clarified in the article. If it's just a random screen shot, it doesn't add anything to the article and should be removed. GaryColemanFan (talk) 20:08, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The second opinion says the second image of the album cover is an unnecessary "fair use." Only one "fair use" of an album cover is justified.

Removed image. Dan56 (talk) 19:46, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Final GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
Reservations about autoformatting of dates and incorrect format for U.S. article if this should go to FAC
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail: