Template:Did you know nominations/Tim Morgan

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:57, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Tim Morgan[edit]

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  • ... that Tim Morgan's Veins are made of steel and glass?
    • ALT1:... that ...?

Created by Philafrenzy (talk), Edwardx (talk), and Whispyhistory (talk). Nominated by Philafrenzy (talk) at 07:46, 8 April 2019 (UTC).

  • @Philafrenzy: Not a full review, but it seems to me that the hook is worded in a way so that it's deliberately confusing to the reader, especially because it uses "Veins" in plural when it fact it was just one structure. Obviously Morgan's veins are not really made of steel and glass and the fact that a structure is made of steel and glass doesn't seem that interesting. Would it be possible to suggest a new hook that would be interesting to the reader without the confusing wording? It does look like a well-written article! Cheers, --SkyGazer 512 My talk page 13:50, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Also, if I recall correctly, an"April-Fools-like" hook was either pulled from the main page or queue or reworded so that it was no longer interesting a few months ago.--SkyGazer 512 My talk page 13:52, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
I think you are worrying uncessarily. It's intended for the last "quirky" slot where people are expecting a bit of a joke. I think people will easily understand that veins can't really be made of steel and glass and this is already indicated by the fact that the first letter is capitalised and the word is in italics indicating a creative work of some kind. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:00, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for responding. I've always thought of the quirky slot as an unusual piece of information, rather than a joke. I particularly think that using Veins in plural is technically inaccurate; something like "made a Vein of steel and glass", but I still think a hook that relies on interestingness in itself, rather than confusing wording, would be better. Pretty much all readers will of course know that veins can't really be made of steel and glass; but then the hook isn't interesting, because it's not particularly unusual to have a building made of steel and glass. For what it's worth, the rewording of another hook a few months ago that I was referring to was discussed here and here. It's certainly possible that I'm worrying unnecessarily and I'd be happy to request a second opinion or ask at WT:DYK if needed. Best, --SkyGazer 512 My talk page 14:12, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
I think you have already asked as plenty of people read the list of hooks awaiting review. P.S. It's not one structure, it's multiple pieces. Philafrenzy (talk) 14:35, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Well, I'm not planning on doing a full review of this anyway so I suppose we can go ahead and have someone else check this out. By asking at WT:DYK, I was more thinking about hooks like these in general (e.g. only interesting because of confusing wording) outside of April Fools Day, apologies for being unclear. Thanks for your comments. Best, --SkyGazer 512 My talk page 13:49, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Apologies for intruding on this discussion, but I agree with SkyGazer 512 that this hook is deliberately misleading. It may be multiple pieces, but according to the article, the sculpture is only known as Vein. It is never referenced as Veins in the article in the article. Calling it Veins in the hook would be factually incorrect according to the article. I could understand something being quirky or fun for a DYK, but at the end of the day, it should be factually correct. Aoba47 (talk) 21:40, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
Each one is known as a Vein but it's an edition of 40. And here is the artist's web page showing them in different numbers at various locations. This is how he works. Cypher, for instance, is an edition of three. Philafrenzy (talk) 23:20, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for the clarification. My issue though is that is not made clear in the article itself. If I clicked on the link from the main page, I would expect to see the word Veins somewhere in the text, and that is not the case. In my opinion this should be clarified in the article itself as not everyone that clicks the link on the main page will read either of these sources. Aoba47 (talk) 00:00, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
Amended the article to make it clearer. Philafrenzy (talk) 00:12, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for the clarification in the article. I think that fixes the issues raised above, but I think it would better to have this looked at by a more experienced editor than myself. Aoba47 (talk) 02:09, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
  • I suppose the hook could work. However, in the article, I am confused by the part which goes His Vein (2008) consists of glass rods, held in compression between long steel blades. There are 40 Veins, some of which are on display at the Cass Sculpture Foundation at Goodwood. Is there only one sculpture called Vein, are there multiple ones, or was it one sculpture called Vein which was composed of several parts? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:21, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
As I understand it, each one is a sculpture named Vein that is made of glass rods in a sandwich of steel blades, and he made 40 of them according to the source. Clearly, however, they are designed to be displayed more than one at a time to make an installation and that is reflected in the pictures. Philafrenzy (talk) 15:41, 16 April 2019 (UTC)


General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: In contrast with SkyGazer 512, I think that it's a great hook - fits into the category of a "tease" - information that Veins refers to a sculpture is deliberately left out and that's just fine IMO. No-one is going to think that the artist is a Cyborg but some may be intrigued to find out what is meant. There are so many unhooky hooks proposed, I'm fully in favour of the quirky. PeaBrainC (talk) 13:36, 1 May 2019 (UTC)


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