Template talk:WikiProject banner shell

Add assessment date and/or assessed revision for article quality ratings

Reason: This way, others can figure out if an article needs a reassement (or if it's just a diffrence of opinion) without going through talk page history and article history, and only need to compare the revisions. OrdinaryGiraffe (talk) 23:15, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

We have this for FA and GA (possibly A-Class too), but not for B-Class and lower. However, I am certain that this has been suggested and rejected on several occasions - just not on this page. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 01:12, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

I figured that might have happend. I'm just not sure where the old discussions are, so if you know, could you link it? OrdinaryGiraffe (talk) 16:10, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm not dead set against the idea, but unless there was a concerted effort (or even a requirement) to use this parameter then it would rapidly become useless — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:24, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Could you explain why? OrdinaryGiraffe (talk) 17:25, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

If it was implemented, I honestly can't see it getting regularly updated other than by a bot. I'm also not convinced of the benefits of having it at all. -Kj cheetham (talk) 17:28, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh. Never mind. I was thinking it would help, but I guess there's no point if it's just a random date. OrdinaryGiraffe (talk) 17:37, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

It's a nice idea, just difficult in practice. -Kj cheetham (talk) 17:49, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

@OrdinaryGiraffe: Some WikiProject templates have an assess-date parameter (e.g. {{WikiProject India}}). If there's a particular WikiProject that you think would benefit from an assess-date parameter, you could discuss it on that WikiProject's talk page. GoingBatty (talk) 17:30, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Is there any point in having these parameters in WikiProject banners now that the quality rating has been moved to the shell? (I guess it could refer to the importance assessment.) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:17, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

That was my original idea., because importance ratings usually aren't supposed to change. Quality is. OrdinaryGiraffe (talk) 20:53, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

"Last assessed" parameter?

A major issue in the current assessment system is that many articles' assessment is years out of date. Even worse, there is no way to tell whether ten year old assessments are still current or not, as there is no way to explicitly agree with the current rating. Should we add a "last assessed" parameter to the banner shell that could be updated to the current time every time somebody used Rater or a similar semi-manual tool? —Kusma (talk) 11:17, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Alternatively, to catch most old and incorrect ratings, is it feasible to regularly compare all article assessments with their ORES predictions and then manually re-assess all those where ORES and the assessment are more than one level apart? —Kusma (talk) 15:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

I can't imagine there would be the volunteer labour to do that manual re-assessment on an ongoing basis, but I would like a "last assessed" parameter (that automated tools like Rater could be expanded to interact with) and the ability to analyse data on class assessment and ORES prediction on a WikiProject-by-WikiProject basis. — Bilorv (talk) 21:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I see this discussion had ended nearly 2 months ago. Anyway, here's my thought:

• There should be an |assess-date= parameter in the Banner shell
• It should have the default value of {{subst:CURRENTMONTH}}, {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}} when initially adding the Banner shell.
• Automated tools such as Rater should add / update the date automatically when assessing / re-assessing an article (or any other page).

That's all I've got for now.

User ping: @Bilorv, @GoingBatty, @Kj cheetham, @Kusma, @MSGJ, @OrdinaryGiraffe, @Redrose64 Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 18:05, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:WikiProject banners without banner shells

This category is (almost?) entirely populated by non-mainspace pages, which there was contention about running our bots on. Is there any point in populating the category with non-mainspace pages that are probably going to stay there forever? Thoughts @Martin? — Qwerfjkltalk 10:52, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

If the pages aren't published, they will eventually be deleted and the category will gradually empty.--Auric talk 11:30, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Auric, that's true for drafts (although probably it would be better to only consider them when they become articles), but not for any of the other namespaces. — Qwerfjkltalk 17:27, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion the banner shell should be added to all talk pages except the user talk pages* (with User:UBX sub pages being the exception as some userboxes are created as sub pages and should be treated like regular templates). But user talk should really be excluded from the category so it will be easier to monitor. Gonnym (talk) 18:48, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I think there is definitely a case for using banner shells in some namespaces. For example in draft space, from where articles are frequently moved into the main space. The advantages of the banner shell are two-fold: (a) having one assessment that works for all projects, and (b) avoiding the redundancy of saying "This article is rated blah blah" multiple times. In non-article namespaces (a) does not apply, but (b) is still a real advantage — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:49, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree that shells should be added to draft talk pages. I'm also noticing that this maint category contains category and file talk pages, which I think we all agree should have them as well.— TAnthony^Talk 20:29, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Cewbot has recently cleared around 100k pages from the category from category, file, template, and module talk namespaces and I don't see any new post complaining on the talk pages. Gonnym (talk) 21:46, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Okay, let's continue. I note the bot was approved to work in all namespaces, even though we began with main talk — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Along with sub pages of User talk:UBX, sub pages of User talk:AlexNewArtBot should also be included in the bot run. Gonnym (talk) 12:05, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Talk pages of sub pages of User:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Project (User talk:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Project/Beetle) should also be included. Gonnym (talk) 10:51, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

WP:BDP

As well as blp and blpo should there be a bdp parameter to accommodate wording for the application of WP:BDP? DeCausa (talk) 07:28, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Use of banner shell in pages with only one project template

What is the point of using banner shell with a single project? This just takes away screen real estate from the WikiProject template for zero benefit. (The page in question certainly does not need a project template anyway). —Kusma (talk) 08:28, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

What real estate does it take away? The only thing it hides is the boilerplate text of This page is supported by the Department of Fun, which aims to provide Wikipedians with fun so that they stay on Wikipedia and keep on improving articles. If you have any ideas, do not hesitate to post them to the discussion page or access our home page to join the Department of Fun. The project name and its importance rating are still there. Gonnym (talk) 09:04, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

As I said, this text is hidden for no benefit whatsoever. (The project name and importance rating could be hidden with less loss of information). —Kusma (talk) 15:04, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Template:WikiProject Inline Templates not populating WikiProject banners without banner shells

I've noticed that if Template:WikiProject Inline Templates is the only template on a page and not in the banner shell, it does not trigger Category:WikiProject banners without banner shells. I can't find what is different about this template. Gonnym (talk) 09:10, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

From the code in Module:WikiProject banner, it looks like the code for detecting the banner shell is only evaluated if the WikiProject template supports class/quality assessments. Both WikiProject Inline Templates and WikiProject Disambig are examples of projects which do not use this, and in these cases the "no_banner_shells" category is not present. Harryboyles 08:59, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for finding out the issue. I wonder if that exception is needed (pages like Category talk:Citation templates take less space with the shell). Gonnym (talk) 14:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that distinction was intended. Will look at changing the code ... — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:56, 11 August 2024 (UTC)