User talk:Markus WikiEditor/Archive 1

Madonna refs

Hi, Marcus. I know that you are good in searching and researching references about all best-seller musicians. Those references sometimes has multiple content to referring many articles. So can you help me (in your time and if you wanna, no problem) to find missed certifications and awards about Madonna. I know that probably she has in Colombia and Asian countries and awards like Los 40 Principales, Edison, MTV ASIA, etc that in her articles don't listed. If you accept, you can post those references/information in this sandbox. If you don't wanna, no worries. Cheers! Chrishonduras (Diskussion) 04:16, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Advise

Just start WP:RFC to ask for consensus. It's pointless and exhausting to debate with a fan. See this Bluesatellite (talk) 22:07, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Hey, would you help to keep eyes on Christina Aguilera sales. I am afraid of another fanbase attack lol Bluesatellite (talk) 08:18, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

@Bluesatellite: Sure!--88marcus (talk) 16:09, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Maybe you could give like "Option 1: 32 million and 25 million" and "Option 2: 28 million and 20 million" at the opening sentence, so users can either vote for option 1 or 2. People can get confused at the figure hahaha. Bluesatellite (talk) 11:35, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Paulina Rubio

Hi, Marcus. Thanks for let me know. If the user still with disruptive edits, report it or try to reach a concensus, and ping me please. Cheers Chrishonduras (Diskussion) 22:50, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

@Chrishonduras: It seems he stopped now. Thank you...^^--88marcus (talk) 23:41, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Janet Jackson Control Worldwide Sales

Billboard, an official source, reports Janet Jackson's "Control" has sold 14 million copies worldwide: http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/hip-hop/6866860/janet-jackson-control-30-year-anniversary

Janet Jackson's official website reports that her "Control" album has sold 14 million copies worldwide: http://www.janetjackson.com/news/news/janet-jacksons-greatest-hits-celebrated-on-number-ones#.Wfp67WhSyM8

These are the official stats and most up to date sources with correct information about the albums sales. Please do not change them again.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiktbdhb (talk • contribs) 02:03, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

You are....

very amazing Big LOL... Keep up the great work! Stick to the closer truth and keep all those fanboys pissed :) Bluesatellite (talk) 22:40, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

@Bluesatellite: This boy is a fanatic! I even changed Madonna's Music album sales from 15 to 10 million copies worldwide. I don't understand that necessity to put numbers so unrealistic to prove Janet Jackson is a great star, I have all her albums, by the way.--88marcus (talk) 22:55, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

The fact that he got time to make a video, LOL. User:Godney*bjs on Avril Lavigne is another fanatic to be handled, gosh! I also downgraded Like a Virgin from 25 million to 21 million, Confessions from 12 million to 10 million. And I didn't oppose when User:Binksternett made a RfC to change sales of Ray of Light from 20 million to 16 million. I mean, what is the satisfaction of staying in lie? Bluesatellite (talk) 23:04, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

@Bluesatellite: I would like to change Britney Spears sales too. Her albums Britney and In the Zone are very inflated too. I only found sources for Britney, 9 million copies link1link2, but I couldn't found anything for In the Zone that it's not inflated.--88marcus (talk) 01:29, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

@Bluesatellite:, remind me again who that user is? This video is proof of outside-wiki harassment and enough for banning. Any sock of his should be immediately reverted as well. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 04:32, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

IndianBio I have no idea who that person is, lol. All I know is that people with healthy brain wouldn't insist to claim Control sold 14 million WW with 5 platinum in the US, platinum in Canada and UK, and only gold in NZ and Japan. Bluesatellite (talk) 05:01, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Sales

Hi, I thought we should discuss this rather than revert. The figure used in the 2011 article is definitely outdated – it's the same one that's been used since 2002, and the album did continue to sell after Dec. 2001 (the IFPI figure was only for that calendar year). Is there a consensus on what percentage of certifications (which are often not updated for many years) should be used to support a figure? — Arre

@Arre 9: Why do you think it's outdated?! I mean, do you think this album could sold 6 or 8 million copies out of USA (since its sales were listed in the article as 10 or 12 million copies worldwide?)! J-lo was certified 4 time platinum in 2003, and 10 year later its sales in US were 3,8 million copies. So it's not even a great catalog seller there. If you click in each of the charts you'll see that after 2002 this album was not in the charts anymore, in Australia it was out in Februray 2002, in UK in March, and so on...--88marcus (talk) 20:53, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Because it is, the same figure has been used since early 2002, and the album has sold since then, 0.7M in the US, its sales doubled in the UK in 2002, etc. Chart positions don't seem to be a great determiner either. Also, I've found sources for some of her other albums but am reluctant to use them before starting a discussion, edit wars are annoying and pointless. But again, I'm not an expert on sales. Is there a consensus on what % should be used? Not to use WP:OTHER, but other albums from the same period have sales figures that aren't supported by as much. — Arre 21:03, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

@Arre 9: J-Lo was only certified Platinum in UK in 2001, there's no evidence that the album was selling a lot after that. You can see its chart run here link Also, the 8 million cited in 2002 was probably shipments, if the album was out of the charts after that there's no way it outside that sales to more than 2 or 4 million copies. The consensus must come from all users, there's no rule to that, but seeing the most reliable about the album sales (charts and certifications). I can't see how this album could sold 10 or 12 million copies out there. It probably has less than 500,000 copies worldwide, with streamings, like most of Christina Aguilera and Britney albums.--88marcus (talk) 21:21, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Well its sales doubled from 214k in Nov 2001 to 510k in Dec 2002 (in the UK), that's just one example. UK certifications for On the 6 and This Is Me... Then, for instance, were only updated in 2016 and 2013. Again, certifications aren't always a great determiner as they're often not updated. Also, album doesn't need to be charting in a region to sell overall either. Where was this consensus reached? — Arre 21:37, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

@Arre 9: The sales double in UK, but you should know that the certifications are automatically made since 2013 there, that's why On the 6 was certified in 2013. That means that J-lo didn't sold 600,000 in UK till now, and after it was out of that charts its sales doesn't change considerably. It shipped 4kk in USA, and 2kk in Europe, it didn't performed that well outside there, only 2x Platinum in Canada and gold in a few countries where you get a cert with less than 50k sold. Which sales do you think its more accurate to that album?--88marcus (talk) 21:47, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Again, I'm not sure myself, but the same figure used in early 2002 to say "as of 2011", does not seem accurate when there are reliable sources with updated figures. And speculation about specific region sales isn't really helpful either when we don't know. I'm still wondering where this consensus was reached, as in what % of certifications needs to be present to support a sales figure. — Arre 22:14, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

@Arre 9: So, what do you prefer?! We put "as of 2002 the album sold more than 8 million copies worldwide" or "the album sold between 8 and 10/12 million copies worldwide (we have to provide refs for both") or don't include anything about that?"--88marcus (talk) 22:59, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

That could work better for the main article. But I'm not sure how that would look for her discography page, what are you suggesting for that? — Arre 21:06, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

@Arre 9: I would like to read the opinion of other users, but if you think is better take out the 8kk from the Discography page, I'll not revert. Stripped by Christina Aguilera and Music by Madonna performed way better than J-lO and are listed as 10kk and 11kk in their articles. I couldn't find some source with 9 million copies for J-lo, so is better don't include don't anything than something inflated...--88marcus (talk) 21:34, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Even when comparing to other albums from the same era it's still not clear how much needs to be supported by certifications. E.g. the sales figure used for Invincible is 10 million and Aaliyah 13 million when their certifications don't account for even a third of the reported figure. But referring to a consensus or a source with an updated figure seems better than drawing conclusions by comparing to other examples. — Arre 00:27, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Bluesatellite: and @IndianBio: what do you think about the sales of J-Lo album?--88marcus (talk) 21:51, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

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Watchlist request

Hey 88marcus! I was wondering if you could add List of best-selling Latin albums in the United States to your watchlist. The list was just recently promoted FL and I just know at some point someone is going to inflate the sales without it being backed up by Nielsen SoundScan. Since you do a edits on sales, would you mind watching over this one too? Thanks! Erick (talk) 11:48, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

@Magiciandude: Ok.

Rhythm of Love

Hi, like do you even stan Kylie Minogue?? Rhythm of Love was a success selling 30M ww omg and also literally it did inspire people and I don't know if you can't speak English but you need to get a grip and stop discrediting Kylie's legacy because every time I make an edit to a Kylie page I get unedited because it's 'false' but like I actually am a fan of hers so like you need to get a grip and stop discrediting Kylegend Minogue.. thanks bitch

Rhythm of Love Outsold

Kylie

Okay would you stop undoing edits? In the Hall of Fame video it literally says it sold 8.5M, it also says Light Years sold 4M in it. There's a whole host of stuff wrong on every Kylie album page, Fever sold 10M and it was confirmed later last year. Almost. Every page hasn't got any sales on it despite the sales being confirmed on reliable source pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.237.134.89 (talk) 00:43, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Kylie

Yes but why would you not list the ARIAA Hall of fame video as a reliable source if Kylie was there? Also the chart runs of Fever basically come to more than 6M and it's really obvious that 6M isn't Kylies best selling. also the CGYOOMH single sold 10M and it says that on her page but on the CGYOOMH it says 5M. Kylie Minogue 1994 album was 2M selling and it was confirmed ages ago and was on Wikipedia ages ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.237.134.89 (talk) 00:52, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Well excluding all them the Kylie sales still should be up there because if it was confirmed in The Hall of Fame then it is real sales. It probably has sold more but I know for a fact that Kylies best selling is higher than 6M and that the Kylie sales are more than 5M — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.237.134.89 (talk) 01:04, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

How is the HOF not reliable? It went gold in USA, it sold 2.1M in the UK alone and that was only like two years after it released, it sold well in Australia. Those sales are clearly obvious that it can sell outside 6M because those sales are old as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.237.134.89 (talk) 01:13, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Stupid edit

Thanks for catching my stupid edit on What Were We Thinking Of. I was working in my sandbox and copied/pasted the single infobox template for in order to produce an article for "Night of My Life" but must have confused the two articles. Thanks haha, Carbrera (talk) 05:14, 7 January 2018 (UTC).

@Carbrera:: you're welcome. ^^--88marcus (talk) 05:16, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

WW Sales

Hey Do you know the ww sales of Jackson's Invincible , Number Ones ,The Essential Michael Jackson ,and Michael Jackson'S This Is It .- Akhiljaxxn (talk) 01:57, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

@Akhiljaxxn: There are forums and sites that estimate the sales of his albums based in chart performances, official sales that came from IFPI or Nielsen Soundscan and well know facts, you can search that in google. I think that the more accurate comes from Chartmasters website and Ukmix Forum. But you can't use this site as a source here in Wikipedia. See the links:

• Chartmasters: link
• Ukmix: (use google to searchfor "Michael Jackson :: Charts & Sales History" there, the link can't be posted here, it's a forum)--88marcus (talk) 02:33, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

If these sites that estimate the sales of  albums/records based in chart performances, official sales that came from IFPI or Nielsen Soundscan why won't we use these as a source? - Akhiljaxxn (talk) 10:27, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

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Australian chart peaks below #50 after mid-1988

Hi, I've noticed on a couple of edits you did in 2016, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Everybody_Move&type=revision&diff=709475189&oldid=709026244 , that you've cited David Kent's book for Australian chart peaks below #50. I know it's a few years ago now, but in case you weren't aware, the Kent Music Report chart was superseded by the ARIA Chart in mid-1988 (13 June 1988 to be exact), and while the Kent/Australian Music Report continued to be published until 1998, it was not considered Australia's "official" chart thereafter. David Kent's book only contains peaks from the Kent Report chart, which ARIA licensed the top 50 portion of between mid-1983 and 12 June 1988; so it is fine to use as a source for Australian peaks during and before that period. From mid-1988, however, an ARIA source should be cited (and I've added one on this page, for example). However, there is a period from when ARIA commenced producing the chart (mid-1988) until the top 100 was first made available to the public in the ARIA Report (14 January 1990) where it's difficult to source ARIA peaks. This ARIA chart blog http://chartbeat.blogspot.com/ , however, contains ARIA peaks for Breakers (the 5 highest-charting singles moving up the chart outside the top 50 that usually have not previously entered the top 50) from this period, and will now be adding peaks for top 100-charting singles that did not become Breakers weekly for 1988 (and later 1989) charts.Nqr9 (talk) 09:43, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Kylie (1988) Platinum certif in Japan

Hi, I'm recently working on the albums discography list for Kylie Minogue. I noticed the Platinum certification for Kylie (1988) was not listed on RIAJ's website. Can you help me verify this? Thank you in advance. Damian Vo (talk) 04:31, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

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Shakira111

The user is blocked for continuing the edit warring. If he/she comes back and edit wars again, please report to the WP:3RR noticeboard and let admin Longhair know. Pretty sure he/she is moving themselves to a longer block duration now. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 11:10, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Refrences

You are an extended confirmed user and so we both know how refrences are important in writing articles in wikipedia. About Ricky Martin's albums' sales, again we both know Forbes is a reliable refrence and so we must trust it! Please instead of using your own idea and your own incomplete calculations and old not that much trustable refrences, such as what you are using!, accept what has been clearly written in Forbes article and do not discuss about it anymore. Please, please, please, I beg you, please do not continue doing this. Regards. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 08:41, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Cher - Believe

How do I know which ones are exact paid ads? And I am serious, some pages just go through albums and certifications I just don't know the details.

Dhoffryn (talk) 16:53, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

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Link change

I just noticed that with this edit, you removed a link to [[Viacom (2005–present)|Viacom]] and linked to Viacom, a disambiguation page. Please don't remove disambiguated links. Thank you for your editing and your support in this. Paine Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there  21:59, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Problem?

I think you are a very strange and incongruous person. AMPROFON certified the Paulina album 6 times platinum, it's not something I want to put on the page. That is the reality, why not just accept it? Do you know what corruption is to edit with lies? I don't want to report you or anything, but I want you to know that you are leading to the pathetic point of fanaticism. The Paulina album sold 900,000 copies in Mexico and AMPROFON certified it nine times platinum, I repeat once again, the AMPROFON page has put it, not me.--User:Santiago Lodré (talk) 17:39, 7 August 2019 (GMT-5)

Are you saying that AMPROFON executives are incompetent?

Are you saying that AMPROFON executives are incompetent? The first certifications of 'Paulina' were in 2000 for 2x Platinum, in 2001 it reached the status of 4x Platinum. It is clear and logical. I don't believe in your word, I believe in the facts and actions of AMPROFON.--User:Santiago Lodré (talk) 14:34, 8 August 2019 (GMT-5)

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Thalia 1990

Hey 88Marcus I'm new to wikipedia and I'm trying to make edits to latin pop artists articles the best that I can while following wikipedia rules. I recently saw that you reversed the edit I did on Thalía's 1990 self titled album regarding the album sales and asked if I could provide a reliable source. I thought I had already provided a source for it so I was wondering why the source I used wasn't reliable and how I can know which sources are reliable and which aren't? FanDePopLatino (talk) 18:37, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi 88marcus,

I do know about the video of Thalía receiving the 2x gold certification but I couldn't find a source for it but I was able to find a source for the sales being 200,000 that's why I only changed the sales number and I did provide a source. This is the source I found: https://elsolnewsmedia.com/thalia-mantiene-su-brillo-y-triunfa-con-valiente/ If you read the source you will find where it mentions the sales. If you could read it and tell me what's wrong with this source I would appreciate it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FanDePopLatino (talk • contribs) 19:08, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Certification in Colombia

Regarding this, the only article we have is Asociación Colombiana de Productores de Fonogramas, which I think about an organisation which is non-functional since 2003 or something like that. See this request I made for information. If you know the certification levels, I think we should improve the Asincol article, or create one for the new certifying organization. Can you please share these sources? --Muhandes (talk) 13:38, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

MTV source

Hi I recently saw that you reversed my edit for Thalía con banda: Grandes éxitos because you say the source is unreliable. Like I said in my edit, that source is one that I found on another article. I got this source in the article for the album Paulina where the source is used as a source for the album's certifications in Chile, Ecuador, and Perú. You should look into that article if the source is unreliable which is probably true because it also states that the album was certified Diamond + 3x Platinum in Mexico but Amprofon says otherwise. Thanks! FanDePopLatino (talk) 15:17, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

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Album sales

Can you stop changing Bad's sales because of your own hypothesis on the album. Your reasons being that the certified certifications does not suggest that it's sold as much as it has been claimed to is not a strong argument at all; if albums were based on certified sales rather than commonly claimed sales by sources, then the entire top of the best-selling albums would be wrong. Isaacsorry (talk) 18:42, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

And TheRichest.com is not a reliable source. I'm not sure why you attributed it to the LATimes as you did. --Ronz (talk) 19:59, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

@Ronz: My bad! Thank you for corrected the link!--88marcus (talk) 23:32, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

I didn't correct any links, I just removed therichest.com links. I'm guessing there's an LATimes article you meant to include, but I didn't look for it beyond quickly glancing at therichest.com article for it. --Ronz (talk) 00:06, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

The claims that 88marcus is making regarding sources stating 35 million copies is also not a strong argument as those sources evidently got their information from Wikipedia - where 35 million was put by a user without any source that supports that figure. John Branca, Michael Jackson's manager, told Time in 2012 that Bad had sold 45 million albums- http://entertainment.time.com/2012/08/29/michael-jackson-bad/slide/the-release-of-bad/ Why would he lie? Many other sources also state 45 million. Isaacsorry (talk)

@Isaacsorry: It's exactly the contrary. Fans and non registered users in general came here to inflate Michael Jackson's sales not to decrease them. Even Michael Jackson's official site claims 35 million copies, but we can't use it and also his manager comment as a source, they're primary sources and they obviously use the sales to commercial purposes. Also, is not because the list of best selling album is not accuratte according to you that we have to also inflate MJ sales to keep him in the high position.--88marcus (talk) 17:22, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

What? Again, you're not talking any sense. No fans inflated sales, because there are sources that actually support the claim of 45 million. The 35 million claims were completely made up because users believed that 45 million was inflated - their own hypothesis rather than looking at what a lot of established organisations like Time and Los Angeles Times were saying. You seem to have an issue with trying to change as many sale figures on albums as possible; you did this with Janet and Invincible too. Isaacsorry (talk) 18:14, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

@Isaacsorry: stop to inflate sales with those references. Thanks!!!! --Chrishonduras (talk) 19:51, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

What are you exactly basing inflated sales on? It's not good just keep on claiming "inflated sales" with out sources yourselves. Isaacsorry (talk) 20:06, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

There are references showing many of his sales are inflated by media, publicists and fans. Including "Bad". Also, see procedures from Wikipedia and the edit summary by users like 88marcus. We already had previous consensus about his sales. Don't change his sales, use the talk page first. --Chrishonduras (talk) 20:59, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Shakira's singles

Hi Marcus, nice to see you. I always thought some singles/albums of Shakira suffers inflated sales and Wikipedia it has been a part of it (With vandalism in her multiple language versions has been easier) or the media exaggeration. Do you think "Loca" sold 5 million copies or "Underneath Your Clothes". The last single has a peculiar reference about Yahoo. Seems like a fake list. What do you think? Cheers --Chrishonduras (talk) 18:38, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

@Chrishonduras: I agree with you and changed the sales.--88marcus (talk) 22:18, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

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Latin Legacy

Hi Marcus, I think Shakira deserves a proper and better version on Wikipedia than the actual main article. At least in "Legacy section", with the "female, general or in latin records" that she has. The same with Thalía and other huge musicians in Latin Music (J Balvin, Rubio etc etc). What do you think?. I can create a sandbox with their "records" or statements about their legacy (individual). --Chrishonduras (talk) 22:39, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

@Chrishonduras: It's s good idea but I don't know about awards, I'm more into sales and certifications, but if I can help you in something tell me.--88marcus (talk) 02:01, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi Marcus, I already created this sandbox where I can include every reference If I see something. You can use it as well, if you wanna. --Chrishonduras (talk) 15:24, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Issue

If you can see the case about album I Am... Sasha Fierce it's curious! Since the album received "mixed reviews" (per source), someone deleted it in the lead... And that's a basic thing of any album to show in lead that information. I already included it. But the thing is... also, her sales. Someone put 10 million and reference shows 7 million. My concern is about this practice is really old, specially in her articles. Maybe we need to review each of her albums sales. And I don't know why in her discography users put her sales with "as of... 2015/2016". I think this practice like in other discographies should be avoided, because its susceptible to attract more "fake sales"... you know the common cycle of vandalism/journalism without scrutinity and giving any user without common sense include "new sales" because has been passed 10 years... or something like that. What do you think? --Chrishonduras (talk) 15:24, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

@Chrishonduras:I understand your point of view and agree with the fact that "as of..." is used to created fake and inflated sales for many artists. In case of albums sales I think the Chartmasters website does a very accurate study of them, according to it Sasha has sold 7,5 million copies worldwide, but differently of many catalog albums it performed very well in the streaming era and sold another 1,7 million copies in equivalent sales, so the "as of... 2015/2016" in that case is not applied incorrectly. I try to find a recent source for the 7 million copies sold from 2018 and 2019 but I couldn't find nothing, but still the 10 million sold is way inflated and when appeared in the article I'll revert it.--88marcus (talk) 17:19, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

I think we may consider evaluate all her albums sales. Believe me... too much vandalism in her articles and active users in her Wikiproject even didn't change it. See the example of Beyoncé: before November 3, 2014 units has been set as 3.5 million with a reference saying 3 million. At least 5 million figure was added since same date without changing any reference.... look the old version in "Commercial performance" said: "As of September 2014, Beyoncé has sold 5 million copies worldwide". Figure was changed just in the lead a few edits after, like this saying 3.7 million but 5 million remained at "Commercial performance" (later in lead section). The first actual reference saying 5 million figure on Wikipedia was used on November 4 and is Yahoo signed by US Weekly. An IP changed again to 3.7 million but JennKR placed 5 million figure with this edit. Until November 9 was changed at least to 3 million and inmediately was back to 5 million. This edition formely wikified Yahoo/US Weekly reference and was permanent accepted by users.... I don't know how reliable can be US Weelky/Yahoo reference (at least in sales matters)... but with this background and with all those certification even until now, seems like is unreliable. SINCE November 24 the 5 million figure was more accepted and placed by user ThirdWard, because we know, OCC used it and they are a "reliable source" in our politics. But.... the thing beyond the background on Wikipedia, OCC used the iconic phrase used here "As of .... 2014..". Copy+Paste, you know... And since then... the history about the sales of this album is the same and same... you can view this one for example, saying 8 million without any reference saying that. Beyonce (album) it's just an example how infected her sales are by vandalism/poor journalism research and other factors. IMHO, we or someone need to fix that problem. Chrishonduras (talk) 02:15, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

@Chrishonduras: You're right about it. I'll change those sales soon (I'm too busy right now...)--88marcus (talk) 03:31, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. It's fine. I'm busy too actually, but when you comeback you can ping-me to help with proofs etc. Cheers, --Chrishonduras (talk) 03:43, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

@Chrishonduras: I tried to find a source of "4 million copies sold" but I couldn't find anything. I think is the more accurate, Chartmasters did a great job with her records and listed Beyonce as having sold around 3,8 copies (not included streamings), but we can't use that blog.--88marcus (talk) 19:48, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

I tried after you message but I didn't find anything. Possible with an advanced research is possible, but I don't have time too. So far we can stay with the 5 million figure, which probably includes streamings. Other amount beyond 5 will be primary source and exaggerate. Per IFPI this album sold 2.3 in 2013, and according to the wiki-article in 2014, was ranked as "20th-best-selling album" (without any amount given). Reference used doesn't show anything about the album, or in this article with the whole report neither. Anyway, i'll try later verify her other albums, that I know that had suffered a lot of vandalism. It's difficult when media made a "woozle effect" and vandalism dont help. Active users in her WikiProject neither.... you can see in all her articles a non-neutral writing; simple details, especially like nobody put worldwide sales in her 4 albumI in the article or discography section, just because was her lowest album in sales. It's common to see discographies like Beyonce or Rihanna (I guess are usually the same editors), in the first paragrah mentioned her records sales etc, etc. That's different with discographies like Gaga for example, which the first paragraph is used to explain about her releases, peak and certifications. The last one its perfectly for her record sales achiviements. I mean, everyone Diva among the best-selling will have tons of similar records =). --Chrishonduras (talk) 22:31, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Decca Albums

The Decca albums are comprised of studio recordings made at the Decca studios. They were studio versions of songs for release as singles & albums. Soundtracks are comprised of songs/scoring prerecorded and used in films. The Decca albums have always been known as studio albums. The first soundtrack album was in 1947 (Till The Clouds Roll By). It is historically known as the first soundtrack album ever released. I run The Judy Garland Online Discography

Ozianscott (talk) 16:31, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Decca Albums

Wikipedia keeps cutting off my message so I'm not sure how to get the explanation to you. My email is ozianscott@gmail.com (sorry for the confusion)

True Blue

I found this source from Billboard and I would like to add some missed certifications: Philippines (Gold), Sweden (Gold), Denmark (Silver) and Ireland (Gold). But since all of them are prior of the official bodies entities, I have no idea how to put sales based on certifications/shipments in "Certified units/sales". Do you have any idea or suggestion? --Chrishonduras (talk) 02:36, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

@Chrishonduras: In Barbra Streisand's article Guilty I included an info about certifications too all info is included in the booklet of her compilation Just for the record, I didn't have probleam till now (it's a primary source too), but I included in the commercial performace section not in the certification table. But if you want to include those Madonna's certifications maybe you can put something like that which is used in this Luis Miguel album article: link ;)--88marcus (talk) 02:53, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, that's help. I think I'll add just the certifications status in "Commercial reception" because in table section, sales could be a primary information. Also, I know you're a good researcher in certifications reached by many artists prior the official entites came out. If you find something about Madonna's albums, specially for generally "uncoverage" countries and region like Latin America, East Europe, Asia-Pacific could be great and helpful. Thanks =) --Chrishonduras (talk) 03:08, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Album certifications

Hello, uhm, when it comes to album certifications if an album gets recertified, certification goes by the level/figure of certification of that time when the album was originally released (Denmark, Nirvana Nevermind for an example 5x platinum in 2018) or it goes by the new standards that is now established in the that country?

Also I would like to ask I have noticed the previous talk about Madonna - True Blue, stuff like that is usable? Would this be usable too: https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Billboard/80s/1981/BB-1981-12-05.pdf ? Page 3, Kim Carnes, Emi Music presents.

Dhoffryn (talk) 12:13, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

@Dhoffryn:In some countries like Brazil the album was certified based in the date it was released but in others like Denmark it's based in the date of the certification, the certification table is already programmed to include the number of copies using the criteria of each country. About the source I think is the same case as True Blue and Guilty, I think if you included in the table probably someone will revert, it's a primary source.--88marcus (talk) 17:10, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

@88marcus: Thanks for clarification. I have wanted to ask, I have seen a user Geegeeyee using this: https://www.rollingstone.com/charts/albums/2019-12-13/ he calculates it all over the weeks, and adds it everywhere? Is this any good?Dhoffryn (talk) 07:53, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

@Dhoffryn: If the info in the source is only about one week of sales I don't think this is reliable (my opinion). But if he includes sales of all weeks in one ref would be better, people do that in K-pop articles, like that ref used in the Wings album of BTS in that article: BTS albums discography--88marcus (talk) 21:17, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

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Shakira discography

Can you revert all recent edits at Shakira discography? I have already reverted three times. The editor who inflated the sales figure is already blocked for edit-warring, he/she edit-warred using an IP account and the registered account.--Harout72 (talk) 16:22, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Thalía's inflated sales

It is the first time that I have reviewed Thalía's sales on those inflated sales that the media continue to print on all kinds of artists. Most of the sales of those albums from the source it includes are completely unrealistic. Although she certified in different countries with albums like 'En Éxtasis' or 'Arrasando', they were in countries where a gold record barely reaches 20 or 30 thousand copies. Let's face it, she doesn't sell more than 1.5 million with an album in her entire career. Try to find reliable sources the next time it occurs to you to keep contributing to your inflated sales. I hope you understand :) .-- Santiago Lodré ( talk) 10:42, June 10, 2020 (UTC)

Can you do me a favor?

Hey Marcus you have the book with the certifications in Spain up to 2005 right? If you do, could you please check if Peruvian singer Gian Marco ever charted or received a certification in Spain? He traveled there to promote his album A Tiempo. If you could check that for me I would appreciate it. Thanks! (FanDePopLatino (talk) 01:12, 12 June 2020 (UTC))

He didn't appear in the album charts and hasn't any certification in the book. But three of his songs appears in the chart Los principales (which you can use here, it's a bad chart):

• 26 oct 02 Se me olvido #6
• 15 feb 03 Te mentiria #27
• 3 may 03 Lamento #38

--88marcus (talk) 19:45, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

@88marcus: ok thanks. So I can not use that chart here correct? (FanDePopLatino (talk) 20:11, 12 June 2020 (UTC))

Correct, you can't.--88marcus (talk) 23:20, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Oricon albums

Hey Marcus do you have the Oricon Album Chart book? If you do could you do me a favor please? Can you check Thalía's greatest hits DVD to see what its peak and sales were? The Oricon website says it entered charts but I think to see the peaks you need to have an account with them or something. If you could check that for me I would appreciate it. Thanks! FanDePopLatino (talk) 20:03, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: Unfortunally I don't have. :( There's a forum called Ukmix, and there is a topic about this book there, that includes almost all informations about its content, included chart runs. People don't answer questions there a long time, and I couldn't find nothing about the Thalía's DVD. link--88marcus (talk) 20:22, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

@88marcus: ok thanks. FanDePopLatino (talk) 20:40, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Certifications

Please read Wikipedia:Record charts (via Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums evidently you clearly missed it. It absolutely says to follow the RIAA source. No exceptions. Pillowdelight (talk) 21:48, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

And I will be reverting all of the edits you seem to be reverting. Pillowdelight (talk) 21:48, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

@Pillowdelight: No, I don't. And that's why you'll find sales in almost all certification tables in Wikipedia, the shippments are used only when there's no info about the album sales. The article says that the table must contain the certifications from the RIAA (BPI, IFPI, etc), but the sales must be from any reliable source.--88marcus (talk) 21:53, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Record charts (via Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums), it states: Certifications should be sourced directly to certifying agencies, most of which provide a searchable database. When such a database is not available, other reliable sources may be used, but they must directly state that the certifying agency has granted the certification. Many popular press articles will contain statements such as "... has gone gold ..." or "... has gone platinum ..." based on a sales figure, when, in fact, the certifying agency has not yet verified those sales and granted a certification. Clearly states you need to follow the RIAA source, only exception is if there wasn’t a source for sales regarding the RIAA that’s when you bring in a reliable source stating the sales. But evidently none of those sources on the albums state they were sourced from the RIAA. So you have to leave it as whatever the RIAA has given it. Pillowdelight (talk) 21:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

You are clearly violating the rules of Wikipedia:Record charts (via Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums Pillowdelight (talk) 21:56, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

@Pillowdelight: Again, it says that the certifications must be from the RIAA (BPI, IFPI, and so on) not the sales, and it's that way because many albums sold above the number of its certifications, but the record companies didn't pay for a new certification or as in many cases the album flopped and sold below the certification received, RIAA (and others companies) certificate an album based in shippments, not in sales. The article you send me says "Certifications should be sourced directly to certifying agencies, most of which provide a searchable database." it doesn't say nothing about the use of shippments besides the sales.--88marcus (talk) 22:05, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

The sales from the certifications are exact same thing. Hence the reason if an album is 3x platinum = 3,000,000 units not 1,300,000 from a random source. Clearly states must say it’s being sourced from the RIAA. Pillowdelight (talk) 00:01, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

FYI, user have had open a "consensus" or asked others in the Wikipedia talk:Record charts about this topic. I've also sent you an email. Thanks, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 21:15, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

@Apoxyomenus: about the LP certification I actually don't know, couldn't find nothing about Mexican LP certs in El siglo de Terron or using google.--88marcus (talk) 22:42, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

Hello. Please see this discussion. Bionic (talk) 18:01, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

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Notice of COI discussion re another editor

There is currently a discussion you may be interested in at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Santiago Lodré and all the Paulina Rubio related articles. Normal Op (talk) 22:40, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

YouTube for album sales/certifications

Hey I see that you recently added back sales on a few albums. Thalía (1990) and 24 Kilates seem fine to me since the first one is a video of her receiving the certification and the second is from a tv news show (third party) talking about the certification and sales, but when it comes to La Chica Dorada it had been removed since it's Paulina saying that she achieved those sales (primary source) and even you yourself have removed it in the past so I was wondering, what is the actual rule about adding sales/certifications using YouTube as a source? I want to make sure we have a clear way of doing it otherwise fans might start using videos to inflate sales again. Example: If an artist "saying" they achieved certifications/sales counts as a valid source, then fans could just cite a video of Paulina or Thalía "saying" they sold 40 million records and we would have to allow it. FanDePopLatino (talk) 04:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: You're right! I undo the edition. ;)--88marcus (talk) 14:58, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Mexican charts

Hey Marcus I found in here (as well as in other articles like Nieve, Nieva) that Notitas Musicales is used as a chart for Mexico from before the Monitor Latino times and I was wondering if we could use it in articles as the official Mexican charts for older songs? The chart shows airplay charts in Mexico as well as the top spots in the U.S. Billboard charts. If this is a legit chart then you could even use it in the article for Sudor that you recently created. It's peak that I found is here. Please let me know. Thanks! FanDePopLatino (talk) 02:12, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: I don't see problem in that at all. Even Billboard uses this chart in their Hits of the world compilations charts. Maybe someone could find problem in include it in the Singles table (in the discography page), if you include there you have to specify that it's from Notitas because the charts peak in it are mostly from AMPROFON.--88marcus (talk) 03:04, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

@88marcus: Ok so could we include them like this:

Chart (1991)	Peak position
Mexico (Notitas Musicales or Top Airplay)	9

FanDePopLatino (talk) 03:11, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: Yeah, but when I said table I was talking about The general in the discography page. I think you can include that in the article too. I prefer the Top Airplay "Notitas Musicales" use than the "Top Airplay".--88marcus (talk) 03:19, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

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El Siglo de Torreon access

Hey there. I was curious how you were able to access the articles on El Siglo de Torreon. Ever since they've been subscription-only last August, I've been having trouble access them. Could you tell how you were able to get them like you did on Sudor? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks! Erick (talk) 17:01, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

@Magiciandude: I use this link, choose my kind of connection and in "Busca" I add "Thalía" and changed the date for 1990, 1991, 1992 and so on.--88marcus (talk) 17:14, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Oooh, I see. I was using a different link that linked to an older version of the archives, which was why none of the articles were loading. Thank you very much! Erick (talk) 17:24, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

@Magiciandude: you're welcome. Bye.--88marcus (talk) 17:25, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

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Love chart

Hi Marcus just wanted to share with you this link which show a chart peak in Mexico for Love. FanDePopLatino (talk) 13:45, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: Thank you. Do you have a link for En la Intimidad single by Thalía too?--88marcus (talk) 13:58, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

@88marcus: unfortunately I was unable to find one. If I find one I'll let you know. FanDePopLatino (talk) 14:31, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: Thank you and please, when you can, let me know about the performances of Thalía's old singles on the charts., I'm trying to do articles to each one of it. ;)--88marcus (talk) 14:40, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Usage of {{certification Table Bottom}}

Hi 88marcus. I'm not sure if you are aware of it, but if you create or update a certification table, so that it does not have any footnotes, like you did here, the use of {{certification Table Bottom}} is incorrect. It either creates an empty line, or, as it was in the case above, creates unrequired footnotes. In such cases, {{Table end}} does a better job, see my edit. As always, your work is much appreciated. Happy new year. --Muhandes (talk) 08:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Russia & South Africa

Hi, hope you're doing well. I saw in Design of a Decade: 1986–1996 this reference. Do you think it's approppriate or should be removed? I haven't started to find another better source, tbh, but sadly in South Africa get sales and certifications it's hard. I also saw this reference used in some articles for Russian certs. However, doesn't show up anything in Archive.org. Additionally some of them used Webcitation and it's the same. I tried Archive.is with same result. Do you know something about it? or if there is another way to verify those Russian certs at that time (seems it was a 2001 report). Thanks in advance, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 18:05, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

@Apoxyomenus: I saw both of this websites being used as a source many times but I never reverted them. The Russian one seems reliable, it has reports about Sony, IFPI and many other record companies. You can see some certs in it (from 2003 to 2008) here: link.--88marcus (talk) 14:29, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Sure, 2M report is considering reliable and it's used by our certification system for Russia. My specific inquiry with it was to that link (2001 report) whom even with archived versions doesn't show anything but it still used in several articles (take the example of this album in Russian wikipedia). Thanks for those report from 2003-2008. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 22:26, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

@Apoxyomenus: Oh, now I see. Since it is a dead url what we can do is wait for it to come back to life. lol It is used in many articles so it should contain something important in it, I already used some dead urls, like some Thalía chart positions that I found on Ukmix, but I didn't find that source there to confirm what was on the page. I would keep it, but do what you think is best. About this source in Africa, they put it on a Janet page of Ukmix, but the person who posted it doesn't even know if it's reliable, whoever edited the reference here said that the source is RISA, but there is no way to confirm it, in the single page of this site it thanks to "Five FM Top 40 and Music Globe" for "allowing me to use this information.", so it appears to be a blog that copied information that can be trusted, it's an unreliable source I would delete it.--88marcus (talk) 13:34, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed it was used in several articles accross several Wikis versions. Albums like Ray of Light (7x Platinum) supposed to be certified but any of all archived version doesn't work and personally don't wanna used something who can't be verifiably by anyone. Yeah, reference for South African certs seems to be unreliable. Thanks :D --Apoxyomenus (talk) 20:44, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

1998 album sales

Hi, as you can see, Dónde Están los Ladrones? by Shakira has much less certifications than Ricky Martin's Vuelve (album) and also Ricky Martin's album performed better on charts. And while they were both released in 1998, Shakira's album total sales is estimated +7 Million copies and Vuelve sales is estimated 6 Million! If you can remember, Vuelve sales was written as 8 Million copies before and you said it's inflated. so if you think 8 was inflated for Vuelve, please also change Dónde Están los Ladrones?'s sales to make sense. Or if you think Dónde Están los Ladrones? sales is accurate, so please let me use another reference for Vuelve's 8 Million copies. Because the numbers should be comparable. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 15:29, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

@آرمین: ok, I erased the inflated info. I don't understand why fans of artists like to inflate sales like that, nobody believes in these numbers and the more they appear here on Wikipedia, the more it becomes less reliable for searches.--88marcus (talk) 23:58, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, 88marcus

Thank you for creating Maria Mercedes (song).

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Thank you for this article. Link 7 is a dead link. Keep in mind that Facebook links are generally treated as unreliable.

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Whiteguru (talk) 05:18, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

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Notorious gap

I have the impression A New Day Has Come has a notorious gap between sales available/certified units vs claimed sales for a 2000s album. This a gap of 5.2 million or what do you think? I know album ended as fifth best-selling in 2002 according to IFPI, but they don't showed up the sales. Also, do you think this link from T-Online is realiable or good to use for sales, not sure after all. Cheers, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 20:09, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Apoxyomenus:, the 12kk claim seems really inflated, 8kk or 10kk would be more accurate for this release, albums like Justified by Justin Timberlake and Stripped by Christina Aguilra performed better and they have a 10kk worldwide claim in their articles. About the site T-Online it seemed more like a blog (not the site itself but this article) and many claims are very inflated like the Ray of light sales and also the certifications of Music and Something to Remember certs. I think it should b avoided.--88marcus (talk) 21:57, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I also agree, 8 or 10 million seems accurate. I don't have another reliable source showing those figures, btw. Understood with the Brazilian claims sales, seems kind of questionable. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 00:59, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

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Question

Can Idolator be used as a source? I'm wondering because it's a "blog" so technically we can't use it, but I see someone has recently been using it a lot so I'm not sure. FanDePopLatino (talk) 04:04, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: Yes. It's reliable according to this article: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources 88marcus (talk) 04:12, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

@88marcus: okay thanks. I didn't know about that list of reliable sources. FanDePopLatino (talk) 04:37, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Laundry Service

But Rolling Stones has confirmed that Shakira has sold 15 million of copies with Laundry Service, is a reliable source. AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 04:09, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Arlen and his friend...

Hello! I noticed that you are the most frequent editor of the Barbra Streisand discography and wondered where I could include her appearance on Harold Arlen's 1966 album Harold Sings Arlen (With Friend), in which she sings two songs. No Swan So Fine (talk) 21:03, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

@No Swan So Fine: I included it on featuring albums. ;)--88marcus (talk) 21:51, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Laundry Service

Hello Marcos, yes rather sorry for the edition war that I caused, however the sales gap is very outdated since by 2003 it already reached 13 million, in fact Laundry Service is already eligible for 4x platinum or x5 platinum in The United States also lacks sales from Peru, Egypt and more countries that tmb sold but there is no sample of the quantities, if Avril Lavigne's sales increased from 16 to 24 million, why not Laundry Service? I request at least to go up to 15 million since it must go around when they update it even if other sources raise it to 20 million. I ask that you read and analyze my request. AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 23:33, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Laundry Service

Okay, but I think that the gap of 13 million is very outdated. I think we leave it at 15 million since many reliable sources have used that figure and it is very likely that until today it has already certified much more.

List of best-selling albums by women

Yesterday I was talking to 2 people who gave me approval and so I decided to base myself on the websites. It is open to any edition, I just want to expand pages.AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 22:18, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Estimated Sales for albums

Hi 88marcus I was looking at a page of best-selling albums and I checked that there are many albums of 40 million certified while estimates put 60, I wonder, can that happen with Laundry Service? I mean, we know that it has 13 million, 700 thousand certificates, but can 20 million be estimated? given that they have not been certified for a long time and if they are updated they pass on those sales. Nice to know what you say to me. Sorry for the interruption. Good day AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 20:23, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

My Answer

I have been reviewing the reliable sources that can be used and Rolling Stones appears as reliable, if the same page commented that LS has 15 million I consider that it is simply left there to avoid conflicts. In addition, many pages also credit the 15 million. I strongly ask that it be left there. Thanks ;) AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 23:03, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Possible certifications for Paulina

Hey I found this source that when it talks about "Te Daria Mi Vida" and "El Tiempo Es Oro" it mentions Platinum certifications in Mexico and Guatemala but I don't know if the source is reliable and also the way it's worded, it doesn't specify if those certifications were for the song or the album. Do you know if this is true? Do you remember or have you seen any video where she received a certification for either the song or the album? FanDePopLatino (talk) 04:57, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: It doesn't seem reliable, there are few info about this website on internet and when Paulina appeared in Veronica Castro's show there was no mention about this album's platinum certification. All that I know is that it didn't have the same success of her previous album.--88marcus (talk) 05:56, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Okay. I had my doubts about the website since I also don't remember her receiving a certification with this album so I wanted to double check before using it as a source. Thanks for helping me out @88marcus:. I appreciate it. FanDePopLatino (talk) 06:07, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

DesAMORfosis singles

Hey man I see that you recently undid my edits on Thalía's album Desamorfosis about the singles because they where released before the album and you also used some songs by Madonna as examples. I know that Ya Tú Me Conoces, La Luz, and Tick Tock where released before the album but they actually were singles from album. The songs don't have to be released at the same time or after the album's release in order to be considered singles from the album otherwise No Me Acuerdo wouldn't have been the lead single of Valiente but instead it would of been Lento. Same thing in other cases like Desde Esa Noche also by Thalía wouldn't be a single from Latina, Chantaje by Shakira wouldn't be a single from El Dorado, Suave y Sutil and Ya No Me Engañas Paulina Rubio would be the only singles from Deseo, Estoy Soltera by Leslie Shaw would be the only single from Yo Soy Leslie Shaw, and the album Yours Truly by Ariana Grande wouldn't have released any songs as singles since they all came out before the album. That's why those 3 songs are singles from the album.

Also those songs by Madonna that you used as examples don't work in the same way because they are songs from movies and were released as singles from the movie's soundtrack. Sure they were included on the album's later but they were not re-released when that happened so they don't count as singles from the albums. That's why songs like Amor Prohibido which Thalía performed at Selena Vive but was included in El Sexto Sentido doesn't count as a single from the album. Thalía's case if different though, for example Marimar wasn't originally in Nandito Ako and was not re-released when the 2007 version of the album came out so it's not considered to be from the album but some of her other songs from Telenovelas were either released as singles at the same time as Thalía's album like María Mercedes while Gracias A Dios, María La Del Barrio, and Rosalinda were re-released as singles from their albums. The point is that Mojito is not the lead single from the album just because it was released closer to the release date of its album. It is the fourth single with the first 3 being Ya Tú Me Conoces, La Luz, and Tick Tock. FanDePopLatino (talk) 04:54, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: It is not just because of the time. These singles were not released to promote the album, you see, the concept of the album came months (almost a year) after these singles were released, Thalía did not appear anywhere saying that these singles would be from her new album and they were just included in it after the concept of the album was created. It is different from "Desde esa noche" and "No me acuerdo" that were released already with the purpose of promoting the album that would follow. I've seen cases of releases like that but I don't remember which artist. But you can undo my editing, I may be wrong.--88marcus (talk) 15:08, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

@88marcus: but you're still not making sense. You say it's not just the time but that the concept of the album came out a lot many months after the singles. If you see here Thalía had mentioned that the album was ready at the time that she had released Tick Tock plus she actually had planned to release the album earlier but do to the coronavirus pandemic decided to instead release Viva Kids Vol. 2 which was actually supposed to come out on January 2021 as you can see here. You also didn't pay attention to the other artists that I mentioned like Chantaje by Shakira which came out 7 months before the album, for Ariana Grande's album Yours Truly all the singles came out before the album with the lead single The Way coming out 6 months prior to the album, and for the album Deseo which had four singles released many months before the album with the first one being Mi Nuevo Vicio which came out 3 years and 8 months before the album while the second and third singles came out 2 years before the album. I didn't undo your edits because I had already done it but you changed it back again and I didn't want it to seem like I was edit warring so I preferred to speak to you on here so we could resolve this. FanDePopLatino (talk) 17:58, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: Ok, I understand. I undo my edits now. ;)--88marcus (talk) 21:44, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

@88marcus: ok but why did you remove the chart peak for Mojito? FanDePopLatino (talk) 21:50, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

@FanDePopLatino: sorry. I though I undo my previous edit.--88marcus (talk) 21:52, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

@88marcus: okay I figured that's what had happened lol. FanDePopLatino (talk) 21:56, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Reinstating incorrect information

Hi 88marcus. In this edit you reverted my edit, this reinstating some facts. Per WP:BURDEN, if you reinstate a fact the burden of proof is on you. Your edit summary said that "for consensus we're using other sources for Latin america territories since there was no organization to certified those sales at the time."

• First, the edit you reinstated specifically lists IFPI Chile as certifying Gold in Chile and CUD as certifying Gold in Uruguay. The sources do not mention IFPI Chile nor CUD so you reinstated unsourced facts. Please either provide a source that IFPI/CUD did the certifying or correct it.
• Second, I think you are misrepresenting the consensus. The consensus is that awards can be listed if they are supported by a reliable source. Surely EMI, the label representing the artist and the advertising agency for an artist are WP:PRIMARY and not a reliable source. Furthermore, consensus is that sales by non-certifying authorities can be mentioned in the text with proper explanation, not that they can be listed in the certification table where no such explanations can be given, thus misleading the readers into thinking that this are certified sales.
• Third, I don't speak the language, but where are the numbers from? I don't see the numbers 10,000 and 2,000 in the source (although they might be there and I'm missing them). In fact, unsourced numbers is what brought me to the article to begin with, it appears in Category:Certification Table Entry usages of salesamount without salesref. So, at the very list, remove the unsourced sales amount (using |nosales=true) or add the source using |salesref=. Best regards. --Muhandes (talk) 18:56, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for the intromision. I don't think 88marcus is wrong after all, @Muhandes:. I understand your point and I can see is based on the "recomendations" made in WP:CHARTS (the point when the source must indicate the "certification body"). I guess this recomendation came before 2010 or onwards. I'm not sure how many involved users or who took that decision or with what arguments?. Contrary, I think that WP:CONTEXTMATTERS is applicable for many examples and without needing the mention of the agency in a third-party source (depending in the country and/or the "year"). Some examples: CAPIF doesn't work since 2010's but artists keep selling and getting certifications in Argentina. Same goes with non-existing certifications programs in countless countries (e,g Brazil before 1990, Turkey before 2003). We also know that there exist "bad information" and we should avoid that if the website from certification is available, for example "X album was certified Platinum" when in the authority source shows Gold. Not all the countries will be like United States with RIAA or United Kingdom with BPI but certainly those "certified units" are attributed by third-party sources in many acceptable examples. Regarding Chilean certification for "En Extasis", I think should remain without attribuiting "IFPI" as the certification body. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 15:35, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

@Apoxyomenus: Lets agree on the basics, which are WP:V and WP:RS. It should be clear that IFPI/CUD/CAPIF should not be mentioned if they are not involved. It should be clear that the amount "certified" is unknown, with every label making their own rules. It should be clear that we have no way to know if the "certification" includes streams, ringtones, or even YouTube views. All we have is the knowledge that the label gave the artist a plaque. Personally, I think the word "certification" does not apply in this case (who is certifying what?) and I don't trust labels. They have all the interest to lie, and nothing to stop them. If you still feel that "plaque being awarded to artist by label" is worth mentioning then I wont object, but it should be made clear. --Muhandes (talk) 16:28, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Gloria Estefan

Hello, I've been editing Gloria Estefan's article in Spanish for a while. The person https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Rodriguito_frocos&action=edit&redlink=1 is committing acts of vandalism in the English and Spanish versions of Gloria Estefan. His bcc reference says that he has sold 120 million, but this goes against all wikipedia lists of best-selling artists, further considering that Estefan's certified sales are 45.7 million, his estimated sales in all versions or in most are in 75 million sales. This person has incurred in treating me very badly verbally, among other things. --Universal Writer (talk) 02:38, September 1, 2021 (UTC)

Me ha llamado "descarado", "mentiroso patológico", entre otras ofensas y ha revertido más de 8 veces mis ediciones, le he informado sobre la política de Wikipedia y lo que es y no es y aún así me dijo que "no te metas con el artículo de Gloria". Quisiera saber qué puedo hacer aquí, él ya fue informado sobre lo qué es una guerra de ediciones y por ende no revertiré sus ediciones sin que algún bibliotecario tome una acción. Saludos --Editor universal (talk) 02:45, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Dear 88marcus, I will accept the reference you made to the sales of Gloria Estefan, but I do not understand why you make references to two figures 75 million and later 100 million, I do not understand the desire to put two figures, it seems a bit ridiculous because it contradicts the information from the music portals and also from the Sony Music label. Please check this, so that we do not get to the battle of information changes on Wikepedia.

Best regards. Rodriguito frocos (talk) 15:46, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism

Hi Marcus, I wanted to tell you that the user https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rodriguito_frocos has already been blocked in the Spanish version due to repeated vandalism, several users hope that the same will also be done in its English version due to its slightly neutral and reluctant editions. --Editor universal (talk) 16:38, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

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