User talk:AnarchistHistory

Welcome!

Hello, AnarchistHistory, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Below are some pages you might find helpful. For a user-friendly interactive help forum, see the Wikipedia Teahouse.

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, please see our help pages, and if you can't find what you are looking for there, please feel free to ask me on my talk page or place {{Help me}} on this page and someone will drop by to help. Again, welcome! Grnrchst (talk) 08:03, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Grnrchst! Thank you for the introduction :) AnarchistHistory (talk) 08:47, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anarchism

Hi AnarchistHistory,

I saw your work on articles related to anarchism and wanted to say hello, as I work in the topic area too. If you haven't already, you might want to watch our noticeboard for Wikipedia's coverage of anarchism, which is a great place to ask questions, collaborate, discuss style/structure precedent, and stay informed about content related to anarchism. Take a look for yourself!

We also have a live cleanup drive, if you'd like to participate, and a mailing list if you'd like to be notified of upcoming edit drives.

Feel free to say hi on my talk page and let me know if these links were helpful (or at least interesting). Hope to see you around. czar 10:40, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Czar! Thank you for the introduction :) AnarchistHistory (talk) 05:11, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reminder to cite!

Hey there! It's good to see you contributing! Just wanted to let you know to make sure you are always citing your sources for information you're adding to articles. For example, you recently copied text from the article on Eva X Moberg to the article on Anarchism in Bosnia and Herzegovina, but you didn't cite any sources.[1] While it's always important to declare when you are porting information from one article to another for the purposes of attribution, it is not a substitute for an inline citation (Wikipedia is not a reliable source). It is vital when writing for Wikipedia that we always cite our sources, as it allows our readers to verify the information we're providing them. If we tell them something without citing a source, how will they know where we're getting that information from? This is why unsourced text often gets removed from articles, as we take verifiability very seriously.

I've gone ahead and added the main source for this paragraph into the article (see the change here). Please make sure you cite your sources in the future! It's for the benefit of our readers and for you too. --Grnrchst (talk) 15:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! I apologise for my mistake and will try to be more vigilant in future edits. AnarchistHistory (talk) 16:02, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

August 2024

Hello, I'm PEPSI697. I noticed that you recently removed content from Anarchism in Argentina without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. PEPSI697 (talk) 06:28, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi PEPSI697, good username!

I added a number of the timelines to articles, and in this discussion it seemed to be concluded that it might be wise to not have the timelines. I am somewhat neutral on the matter, but this is the direction of the discourse. However, you are correct that I should have explained my reasoning and for that I apologise.

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anarchism#Timelines on country articles AnarchistHistory (talk) 06:33, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No worries! Thanks very much for the response! PEPSI697 (talk) 09:22, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:AWB

Hi there, I've noticed a lot of your edits are minor "gnoming" type ones, where you're adding an article to categories, or adding the same thing to a series of "See also" sections. You might want to have a look at WP:AWB, which is a program that makes this kind of repetitive edit much easier. I don't think you're likely to have a request approved if you apply for permission to use it at this time, since you're still quite new, but it's worth keeping in mind for the nearish future. There's also WP:HOTCAT, which makes messing with categories much easier. -- asilvering (talk) 18:59, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! I'm still learning slowly so any feedback is good :) AnarchistHistory (talk) 19:52, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pop culture trivia

Hey there, I notice you just added some pop culture trivia to articles on the CNT and EZLN. Unfortunately I had to revert these, as neither was citing reliable sources (the latter cited social media posts, while the former didn't cite any sources at all). "In popular culture" sections and cultural reference materials are generally discouraged by the manual of style, as a reference to something in popular culture isn't itself notable to an article about that subject; inclusion needs to be supported by references to reliable sources which discuss why that cultural reference is relevant to the subject. Just as an example: the anarcho-syndicalist commune in Monty Python and the Holy Grail justifies including a link to the article on anarcho-syndicalism in the synopsis of the film, but without a citation to a reliable source, it probably isn't important information to include in the article about anarcho-syndicalism itself. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:28, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reading you loud and clear. I'm still learning the ropes :) AnarchistHistory (talk) 19:44, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Ana Sigüenza

On 8 September 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Ana Sigüenza, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ana Sigüenza. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Ana Sigüenza), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

--Grnrchst (talk) 12:05, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for September 16

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Nomination of 2024 Melbourne Land Forces Expo protests for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 2024 Melbourne Land Forces Expo protests is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2024 Melbourne Land Forces Expo protests (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

GMH Melbourne (talk) 07:03, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Translations

Hey there, hope you're doing well. I notice you've been translating the lead of the article on anarchism into several other languages for other Wikipedia projects. Your edit summaries say you've been "automatically translating" these, so would I be correct to say you don't have a reasonable level of fluency in these languages? You should take caution when using machine translations, especially in languages you are unfamiliar with, as machine translations often make mistakes and are generally unreliable (not to mention the varying quality between say DeepL, Google Translate, and ChatGPT). If you can't verify that what you're copying over is correct, the machine translation may be saying something entirely incorrect, whether factually or linguistically.

I only bring this up because editors making additions and changes in languages they're not familiar with regularly cause problems. A couple years ago, I watched one of my colleagues getting heat for making linguistic changes to articles on the Swedish Wikipedia, as they were completely unfamiliar with how the Swedish language works or how non-Swedish words are translated into Swedish. On the more severe end, the fiasco with the Scots Wikipedia involved someone with no familiarity with the Scots language badly translating a third of the encyclopedia's articles. I've also been burnt in the past by bad machine translations, so nowadays I stick to translating from and to languages I have at least a base level of familiarity with. --Grnrchst (talk) 11:59, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Going over them now, there are various obvious cases of the machine translation failing and leaving in English or Spanish words. Even the titles themselves imply a lack of understanding of the languages, whether they might already have a word for anarchism that you (or the machine) don't know, or whether there might be a way to construct the term using the language's own structure. I worry that these kinds of unedited machine translations aren't giving these languages the respect and attention-to-detail that they deserve. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:44, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Gren, hope you're well too. I appreciate the feedback, and have several things to say in response.

Firstly, I should disclose that I am a native English speaker and lack anything resembling fluency in any other language. I also agree that languages are beautiful things that deserve to be treated with respect and care, and that there is a lot of context and nuance that can be missing if you lack fluency in a language.

However, my inspiration for this was seeing that "Anarchism" is considered to be one of the 1000 articles that every Wikipedia should have. If a particular Wikipedia lacks articles on the concept of Anarchism, while also having biographies on individual anarchists, then I see it as important to add. I can't do it justice, but I figure it is better to start and let people who know the language help out. It's not an ideal situation (see global digital divide) but I have to try. I use context clues from other articles to work out how to correctly spell anarchism or the related concept. For example, I'll usually find prominent anarchists and see how those articles spell anarchism.

I generally don't make edits to pre-existing pieces of information for the reason your colleague found out. I will always focus on adding information or just adding hyperlinks. AnarchistHistory (talk) 12:57, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly I'm having trouble reconciling "languages deserve to be treated with respect and care" with "I can't do it justice, but I figure it is better to start and let people who know the language help out." I don't think a hasty copy-paste of a garbled machine translation into a language you don't understand is treating it with respect and care, especially if you think people that do understand the language are there to "help out" and not be the ones to write it themselves. If anything, it displays a lack of respect and care, not only for the language and its speakers, but the subject too.

Other language Wikipedias are not an extension of the English Wikipedia, editors on other Wikipedias are not there to help correct the mistakes of monolingual anglophones that haven't taken any time or effort to learn their language. I think if you really want to get this subject onto other language Wikipedias based on an (honestly quite euro-centric) list, then you should get in contact with people who are fluent in those languages and ask them if they'd be willing to write something about it. --Grnrchst (talk) 14:15, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Each language Wikipedia has its own governing rules but generally they frown on machine translation unless otherwise stated. This is because it creates more work for them to clean up a low-quality article than it would be for a speaker of the language to do the translation themselves (otherwise they would just machine translate all articles en masse). (See also: "Raw or lightly edited machine translations have long been considered by the English Wikipedia community to be worse than nothing.") I highly recommend against using machine translation as the basis of any article in any language Wikipedia. czar 22:45, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've put out a request on the Aymara Wikipedia for someone there that knows Aymara to fix the awful machine translation on that article. This one was particularly frustrating, as a moment's glance at the project talk page would have shown multiple editors advising against Google Translate due to its poor quality in translating to Aymara. Hell, the banner at the top of the Aymara Wikipedia is begging Aymara speakers to help revive the project! Dumping such a clearly terrible Google translation onto this wiki at a time like this is actively disruptive to their efforts... (Seriously, a passing familiarity of either Aymara or Spanish would have quickly revealed how bad the "translation" was)

Given one of Google's translations has already been deleted from the Acehnese Wikipedia as a bad translation, I think you need to do a bit of work to clean up this mess. Get in contact with people on those projects, be apologetic, and ask if they can proofread and copyedit the articles; and failing that, if they can be deleted. --Grnrchst (talk) 08:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The majority of the articles about anarchism I have made in other languages I have given significant reversions to since this discussion. Reversions have been based on comparable articles on politics and are not machine translations. I have linked the reverted ones for your convenience.

Anarquismo (Aymara)
Anarkismo (Cebuano)
Anarchism (Hausa)
Anarchism (Igbo)
Anarkisme (Sundanese)

They are all likely flawed in their current form, but the exact nature of those flaws is a judgement that I leave to fluent speakers to make. AnarchistHistory (talk) 11:25, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to request deletion of those articles, you can use Template:Db. You may need to translate this template into the target language first - I don't know if those wikipedias have bots that can do that for you. Just use the languages tab/header to navigate to the equivalent template in the target language. -- asilvering (talk) 11:44, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just to add another reason why it's actually better not to do this: a red link encourages article creation. Wikipedia editors use lists of redlinks to target articles that need to be written - if you've already started the article on Anarchism, it will no longer be on those redlists. See projects like WP:WIRED, for example, that are all about filling in red links. It's good to leave red links for people who work primarily in those languages. -- asilvering (talk) 01:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also also, the large language models that power these kinds of translation engines use websites like Wikipedia as training data. So if bad machine translations are being fed back into it, its results will only get worse! --Grnrchst (talk) 09:19, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Points noted. No more machine translations of the anarchism article. @Asilvering @Czar @Grnrchst AnarchistHistory (talk) 03:40, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No more machine translations into languages you don't understand! Not just the anarchism article! --Grnrchst (talk) 08:54, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Foreign espionage in Australia moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to Foreign espionage in Australia. Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because The article is simply a list of links to other articles and does not have any prose text.. I have converted your article to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page OR move the page back. Dan • ✉ 22:03, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for September 23

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited CIA activities in Libya, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Tripoli.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 07:51, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]