User talk:Jtdirl/Archive 3

Ah. Sorry. -- Oliver P. 03:52 Mar 11, 2003 (UTC)

A secret it took me a bit to figure out: to archive a talk page that is too large for you to edit, use the "Move this page" command. You can move, e.g., Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (names and titles) to "Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (names and titles)/archive57" (or whatever), without having to edit it and without thereby truncating it. If you want to comment on anything from the archive on the NEW talk page, you can just copy and paste it there. (Though I think the whole archiving thing is a bit odd, the whole history is there in the revisions even if you deleted the thing.)

Best of luck on the Emperor naming, if I had a strong opinion I'd voice it, but I don't, and I've found these sorts of disputes dispiriting. It does seem that the race goes to those bold enough to just do what they want instead of discussing it first. It is better to beg forgiveness than ask permission.... and most don't even bother about the forgiveness. -- Someone else 00:58 Mar 12, 2003 (UTC)

Egad, if you pay-by-the-minute for access, you're a saint. (hey, actually, these days it might be enough for a beatification<G>). I've found it a little helpful to stay away from anything edited by certain infuriating people. As long as said people contribute, Wikipedia will have errors. But your time is probably better spent writing new stuff or fixing errors where people won't be hell-bent on re-inserting them. -- Someone else 01:25 Mar 12, 2003 (UTC)

Hello. I've archived Talk:U.S. presidential election, 2000 and put a summary of the most recent discussion at the top (if it's not NPOV enough, feel free to change it!), with a note saying that it should be continued at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions. (Actually, that's another page that needs archiving, but the page looks too complicated, and I don't know what people want kept there.) I'm sorry to hear of your annoyance over the issue, and with Susan Mason in general. But I think that giving our naming conventions an airing from time to time might be beneficial, to get them well and truly sorted out (or as near as possible) while we are still in the early stages of the Wikipedia. And as for Susan Mason misrepresenting your position, well, I think a lot of misrepresentation goes on around here... I think we'd probably all get along better if we put it down to misunderstanding and poor wording than maliciousness. Call me weird, but I just can't help liking Susan. :) -- Oliver P. 04:47 Mar 12, 2003 (UTC)

Who'd have thought everyone would agree on Hirohito, war criminal? <g> -- Someone else 06:23 Mar 12, 2003 (UTC)

Hi, Jtdrirl (what the hell's that mean?),

Yea, I have a Ph.D., too (UCSD, University of California, San Diego--same place Hirohito, Emperor of Japan, used to study oceanography). So what? No one cares. Why argue about stuff (Japanese Monarchs) you know nothing about?

Arthur 22:38 Mar 12, 2003 (UTC)

Oh. This is so hard for me! I hate being rude. I dislike any contentionsness. I apologise. I'm sorry! Please don't be angry! My issue is not about who's right or who's wrong. I'm sorry if I've suggested so. But I think China and Japan should be treated equally. Forgive me. I mean no offense. Arthur 04:20 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)

I'm just afraid of what we may be getting ourselves into. -- Zoe

I'd love to see his answers. :) - Zoe

Taku has turned into a vandal. It's time to take him to the mailing list. -- Zoe

Hi, just saw your note. I haven't looked at the actual pages too closely, so I didn't realise there was a major problem. I mean, I did have some sympathy for their point of view - I tend to defer to people on subjects relating to their home countries. You may recall how I used to object to a certain American lady attempting to rewrite British history on the basis of a few old books she had at home. On the other hand, it is the English-language Wikipedia and it needs to be geared up for English-speaking people. Either way, don't get all uptight about it. Remember, you'll probably be here long after he's gone. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Deb 22:27 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)

Your comments on my user page seem right to me. I'll wait until some resolution is reached before touching Japanese Emperors again. I have already abandoned the topic anyway. It's much too heated for me. Good luck with your efforts. Arthur 04:10 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC) (But if you would like someone to do the tiring fix of redirects, let me know.)

Whats going on with the AKFD thing? Axel seems to have done some work on his own... I think its time we put an end to this, period. -&#35918&#30505sv

Hi Jtdirl!

Yea, I saw Taku's deletions, too. All that information was interesting to me, so I'm sad it's gone. Perhaps it was ill-informed and deleted for that reason. Beats me. (I'll give Taku this--he edits boldly, doesn't he?) I'm glad that you and Roadrunner are collaborating. I think you're both very solid representatives of your respective positions. (So much so that I abandoned the debate, feeling uninformed compared to both of you.) The stuff Taku just deleted is currently controversial even in Japan! Why is Mao known by family name first when written in English, but Japanese by (western-style) first name first? (I know. Thirteen-year-old Americans thing Mao is the guy's first name.) That's a fun controversy that I hope Taku will reintroduce in the article Arthur 23:58 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)

"Chairman Mao" was very funny.

Thank you. Arthur 00:15 Mar 15, 2003 (UTC) (P.S. I wanna give Taku the chance to ponder my objections before I touch anything. Who knows. Maybe he'll agree. He has before.

Hi, just saw your note about Taku and the Japanese emperors thing. I'd rather not get involved right now - I'm taking a few days half-break from the 'pedia (by which I mean I'm trying to stay away from it altogether, but know I won't be able to, so I'm just editing less instead), and I'd rather not get involved in any discussion only to break off half way through or else get sucked into a big argument when I'm trying to spend more time doing something else. Sorry, and good luck in trying to sort it all out (if it's not been sorted out already)--Camembert

And did you see the present I left you at Lord Edward Fitzgerald? Deb 10:57 Mar 15, 2003 (UTC)

Not a problem. ;-) -- Zoe

The new bit on courtesy titles, etc, is eminently clear. Thanks. Deb 17:36 Mar 21, 2003 (UTC)

As far as I could see 128.171.106.92's edits to votes for deletion were all additions rather than removing requests for deletion. Not very comprehensible additions admittedly, and I'm not disagreeing with the general vandalness of his contributions. I just feel it fair to point that out. Regards, -- sannse 21:24 Mar 21, 2003 (UTC)

No problem with the page fix :) I couldn't see a line deletion on VfD, just ramblings and a small grammar fix to one of your comments (strange!) -- sannse 21:55 Mar 21, 2003 (UTC)

I am shocked! Lowercase "latin"!?!? I shall chalk it up to the late hour. In the process I did add a bit of rephrasing to Tridentine Mass, if you think it infelicitous, revert, but the other way sounded peculiar to me. -- Someone else 06:27 Mar 23, 2003 (UTC)

You know, I was thinking that you could expand the Papal Tiara's into a nice book. Sadly, I suppose I might be the only one to buy a copy, so perhaps that's not such a hot idea. I did notice your recent "Catholic art" spate <G>.... I've always wondered if there were a name for that style of devotional art so popular in the 1950s... some of it is so delightfully...how shall we say... garish?... no, "over-the-top", perhaps? -- Someone else 06:44 Mar 23, 2003 (UTC)

I saw your discussion with _( (have I got his name right?) about capitalisation. That's a subject that's bothered me ever since I began publishing some of my own work. My friend, who's a qualified proof-reader, says that words such as "king" should never be capitalised, and I must say that, looking at newspapers, I find they don't do it. However, it does feel more correct to me to do it as you suggest in your comments. On the other hand, I do notice that the articles being downloaded from the 1911 Britannica invariably use lower case for words like "earl". Consequently, we have potential for a lot of confusion over article titles. I'm sure you must have noticed this. Deb 19:20 Mar 23, 2003 (UTC)

On the subject of the French nobility (see Charles, duc d'Orleans which has been around a while), I do and don't agree. In favour of leaving them in the French form would be the fact that they sound the same as the English version and "everyone knows" what they mean. On the other hand, this is English-language wikipedia. Also, because the French don't use capitals anywhere near as much as we do, there is potential for the same problem with article titles as I mentioned above. As usual, there's no easy answer. Deb 17:37 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

Good day! I have two things to talk to you about:

Re: calling your nemesis "BF", you should know that there is an actual User:BF who might not like that. ;-)
re Emperor of Japan: I'm willing to go through and fix all the broken redirects. I figure if I'm going to do that, the articles should be under the right titles as well. Can you give me the agreed convention in a nutshell?

Cheers, Stephen Gilbert 21:48 Mar 24, 2003 (UTC)

I think I'll go with "Emperor {name} of Japan", as paranthesis are normally only used for disambiguation. I don't think Taku will change them back, given the conversation we had on his talk page. -- Stephen Gilbert

Very lame and frankly ludicrous is a pretty hystirical or at least melodramatic way of saying "I disagree." I'd rather you not make ad hominem attacks at me. If you feel I did that to you, I apologize. Slrubenstein

I appreciate your note, and the apology is happily accepted. I suppose I would have reacted thte same way to that song. As for the issue at hand -- we just disagree. Thee must be room for disagreement here, right? I believe the article should be as much about Jesus the historical figure, focusing on what we really know about him, as possible -- and leave it to other articles to discuss the image/representation/use of Jesus in different religions etc. Slrubenstein

Please make your views known at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(slogans). --Uncle Ed 23:49 Mar 26, 2003 (UTC)

I've already made it clear that I will have no further communication with Taku. See my last comments on his talk page. -- Zoe

What about the nemesis of Flash Gordon? Ming? Ming Emperor? Emperor Ming of Mongo?, Ming, Emperor of Mongo?, [[Ming the Merciless of Mongo]]? [[Emperor Ming I the Merciless of Mongo]]? Curse the tower of Babel! :) -- Someone else 08:59 Mar 27, 2003 (UTC)

Please take pity on 1707 Act of Union if you have a spare moment or two. It is linked from the Main Page. Your in the wiki, --mav

I can handle the bewildered comments and questions, esp. since Dan gave me an excuse to post an excutive summary on my page. The funny thing is, I don't particularly care what Japanese emperors are called, as long as it's consistant and people can get to the articles. Back to work... -- Stephen Gilbert

Hello JT. Would you consider using this image in place of the first two, on the article on Jesus Christ? Mkmcconn

The trouble with the image you suggest is that it is not a universally recognised one in the way the two used are.

I don't know how this can be substantiated. The image is solidly in a tradition that is followed widely, in both the east and the west (In fact, both of the first two images presently on the page are in this tradition). But, if the parish gift shops and the holiday postcard trade are the measure to be relied upon for finding "recognized" images, then I suppose you have picked good ones. Mkmcconn

If the only images I could find were of a mainstream protestant image of Christ and no catholic or orthodox version, I would have used that.

I mentioned Rembrandt's (A Young Jew as) Christ. Heinrich Hofmann's portrait (Christ at thirty-three) is exceptionally popular - maybe that's what you are looking for. I think that's the closest you'll find - not counting the other stuff that fills Protestant "sunday school" materials and "Christian bookstores" There is no such thing, in my opinion, as a mainstream protestant painting of Jesus. There are styles and periods of painting - some more popular than others - take your pick. ...

Anyway, what is a "mainstream protestant"? The protestant tradition until the 19th century had been unmistakably marked by distrust of the visual arts for illustrating who Jesus is. My neighbor is the likeness of Christ: a living human person, not a painting. It's how a portrait is used, that is protestant - not what the picture looks like. Mkmcconn

re: rosary -- I think every thoughtful person here has felt the way you have at some point. I feel the same way, now. It is inevitable in the nature of the wikipedia project that much of our hard work will over time disappear -- you can think of it as a problem in mass culture, or as a zen exercise. Look on the bright side: anything you publish in a journal (especially a refereed journal) will be forever fixed, with your name attached. In any event, I am sure most people recognize how much you have contributed to wikipedia. Just please, do not get too attached, or take anything personally -- I mean this, sincerely, and constructively, I think it is the only way to survive here. As for my own recent remarks, believe me I have tried to make my reasoning clear in a non-insulting or dismissive way. Slrubenstein

A response in on my talk page. --mav

Yup, answer on my talk page :-) -- mkrohn 22:09 Mar 30, 2003 (UTC)

Mav, I guess I have done it again. Been too sharp in what I said. (Sometimes I can be a male version of Zoe!) I have no doubt as to your abilities. What I meant was simply in this instance, a centralised picture can become itself part of the story and I think if at all possible a picture should be intended with a text wrap. It is just my experience in layout out pages for publications and media work. I think we have differing perspectives on the use of images; I was rather unhappy at what happened at Jesus Christ. All I have been trying to do is create pages that fit the standardised encyclopædic and advertorial use of imagery because I want when someone enters wiki for them to find good text and a layout they feel instantly at home with. I want to feel proud of how page feels and looks. We have clashed a couple of times lately, and if I have been too sharp or hurtful, I am sorry. (I did explain some of the background in my email. I know it is no excuse but I claim it as mitigating curcumstances!!!)

I have explained in detail the issue of layout on the Mugabe talk pages, so you might take a look there. BTW I did a bit of a rewrite of the Mugabe article. I think it is more NPOV. I know you did good work there. 172 does have a tendency to produce heavily POV stuff and not realise it is POV. (I suppose everyone on wiki can think there POV is really NPOV at some stage!) Anyway, peace and wiki-carma. I'll try to be better, next time, honest!

PS: your page is 42k (who is popular boy then!!!) so I couldn't enter the page. Happy wikifying. STÓD/ÉÍRE 23:03 Mar 30, 2003 (UTC)

Apology accepted. :-) But the image in question was always embedded (correct terminology= "right aligned") - not a single version of that article has a "centralized picture". Brion explains more on the Mugabe page. You may also want to read my responses to 172 on my talk page (which I need to archive for the 3rd time this month! Argh!). Peace be upon you and power to the Wiki! --mav

Jtdirl, try this copy of the Mugabe page. This has width and height attributes set on the image. Does it appear any better than the current version on the 'pedia? And, if possible, can you provide screenshots that show exactly what's appearing incorrectly in your browser? --Brion 00:26 Mar 31, 2003 (UTC)

Am I correct in my interpretation of your comment on my talk page that you do not wish a solid border to appear around the layout boxes containing images and their captions? The sensible thing to do would be to not define border styles for them, then! This would look excellent on every browser. :) If we need to set widths on the div for IE, then we can do that, but it'll have to be maintained manually. Remember the width should be a few pixels *greater* than the width of the image. If it's smaller, the image will expand beyond the right page margin in Mozilla/Netscape and there is likely no benefit on Internet Explorer.

Please let me know if the revision I just made to Robert Mugabe displays correctly (no border; floating at right of page next to the second paragraph) for you in both IE and Netscape, or if either has a problem.

And let's not forget that no browser seems to have a problem with right-aligned tables... --Brion

For what it is worth: the above mentioned page renders perfectly for me (using konqueror KDE 3.1). If you can see the border of the boxes or not does also very much depend which browser you use. You might want to compare: User:Marco Krohn/image test results which shows a quick comparison about different browsers and different border settings. -- mkrohn 12:52 Mar 31, 2003 (UTC)

So, you're not wild about switching to Netscape? Are you running OS X? If so, you might want to give Camino a spin. -- Stephen Gilbert

I also heard a lot of good things about Apple's own browser project: Safari. Judging from user comments Safari is the fastest browser for Mac OS X, see their impressive web page for speed comparison. -- mkrohn 22:31 Apr 1, 2003 (UTC)

You do realize you can change Netscape's monospaced font to anything you like in the preferences dialogue, right? --Brion 00:35 Apr 2, 2003 (UTC)

Historians and other social scientists are need to look over some new content. I added a lot of content on the history of Brazil detailing the years from 1889-1964. Perhaps you’d want to take a look at it. I also added a good deal to the article on the economy of Russia on structural adjustment reforms and macroeconomic stabilization. I'm looking for editors for these two articles because the subjects don't seem to be that contentious on this site. It's harder to find editors for non-controversial subjects.

172

On the euro... There is no euro symbol in ISO 8859-1, which is the character set presently used on this wiki. To be sure it goes through your browser properly, don't type it directly; instead use "€" (€). Yeah, it sucks. Eventually we'll get around to converting the remaining Western languages to Unicode: you'll have your euro, I'll have my silly Esperanto accents, and we'll all be happy. :) --Brion

Oh, and if you have any other weird problems with Safari, please let me know. I don't have a mac at home and my one at work is still on OS9, so I can't test it directly. :( --Brion

Hey, why not install Opera and have a complete set! ;-) -- Stephen Gilbert

You're right -- I don't believe it. You're a nutcase. But hey, what about the text-only browsers? Lynx! w3m! Links! OS X is Unix, baby! No need to be graphics snob just because it's a Mac, eh? -- Stephen Gilbert

Oh no. *sigh* Taku has now started moving Japanese pages again but this time without moving talk pages!!! Oh Gawd. Is there no end to the mess he manages to create.

Chill out, dude. Taku is a very reasonable fellow. Just start helping him out. After fixing a few pages, you can stop and teach him the right way to do it. All is not lost :-) --Uncle Ed

????? Since when? Since AFTER he told me that he has no interest in making sure that the items he puts into the Wikipedia are correct? -- Zoe

You’re a good editor. I meant “landowning”, of course. I promise that I wasn’t trying to insert subliminal messages by calling the whites “landowing”.

172

No prob, 172 :-)

The best way to get Bush to bomb Michael is to claim he has a few million barrels of oil in his backyard.

Something occurred to me about Michael recently. He reminds me an awful lot of a high-function autistic, Matthew, that I used to work with. I have no idea if he is, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. I'm sure Matthew could figure out how to use Wikipedia and would have added copious info on things like release dates, but only from memory -- and if he didn't remember, he would have made it up (Matthew is a calendar savant and would have remembered most dates he had ever encountered, and he is very into music). And he wouldn't have had the mental capacity to actually describe things like music in meaningful terms, just like Michael/Weezer. Matthew's obvious attempts at deceit, which wouldn't have fooled a blind and deaf Alzheimer's patient, are reminiscent of Michael's attempts at adopting a new identity (at Talk:Crass he added a comment as both Michael and Weezer in the same edit). Michael does seem much more malicious than Matthew, though, who would probably have tried (and failed, most likely) to conform to standards when he saw his changes being reverted, so maybe I'm just imagining things... Tuf-Kat

You know, no controversy here can be counted complete until you participate<G>. If you are so inclined, I would be very happy if you would take time out from the Emperors of Japan and use one of your new-fangled power-browsers, which unlike my impotent browser, can actually edit something as long as the War of the Austrian Succession without truncating it... only the first paragraph, that's all I ask, because it annoys me so much for reasons detailed on Talk:War of the Austrian Succession. On the other hand, if you'd rather keep on with the Empire of the Rising Sun, I'll understand -- Someone else 04:03 Apr 3, 2003 (UTC)

One of the few Internet publications that has useful reviews is popmatters.com You may be interested in this, which pretty much explains why your average rollingstone review is meaningless drivel that could apply to almost any album. (I remember reading a better column recently on the same subject, entitled something along the lines of 10 Mistakes Music Reviewers Make, but I can't find it in their archives) It's why I'm excited by Wikipedia's music section -- I, you, Ortolan, Quercusrobur etc are pretty vigilant about removing meaningless sentences and understand how to replace them with meaningful ones. With enough articles, I could easily see Wikipedia being a standard references for music historians and reviewers and fans, as long as we are chock full of sentences that mean things and are potentially true or false, instead of unfalsifiable, bland statements of non-opinion (or empty hype). Tuf-Kat