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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Aviation. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

Adding a new AfD discussion
Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
  1. Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
  2. You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Aviation|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
There are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.
Removing a closed AfD discussion
Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.
Other types of discussions
You can also add and remove other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Aviation. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{prodded}} will suffice.
Further information
For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.


Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
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Aviation Articles for Deletion (WP:AFD)[edit]

Vuelamex[edit]

Vuelamex (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Delete Does not meet WP:GNG. None of the reference links work. The airlines never commenced operations. This has been tagged for notability since 2011. Wikilover3509 (talk) 14:48, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete because of lack of notability. hamster717🐉(discuss anything!🐹✈️my contribs🌌🌠) 23:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lifestar[edit]

Lifestar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I couldn't find evidence that it meets WP:ORG / WP:GNG. Boleyn (talk) 19:38, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Merge (selectively) into University of Tennessee Medical Center. There is some coverage, for example this. Possibly not enough for NORG but that doesn't matter. As an improper SPINOUT of University of Tennessee Medical Center, a short article as well, it should be merged into its parent. Even if someone would prove that both articles are notable under NORG. gidonb (talk) 19:42, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:27, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Air Europa Flight 045[edit]


Air Europa Flight 045 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Failure to comply with WP:NOTABILITY. Jetstreamer Talk 16:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly and not just 40 injured but 10 being critically aswell. I've seen a few articles (which are now deleted) that from my perspective isn't notable, but people thinking this incident should be deleted is mind-boggling. 2605:8D80:400:9392:E4F1:C26C:D541:CCEA (talk) 09:50, 4 July 2024 (UTC)strike sock-- Ponyobons mots 17:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just because a few people were injured doesn't make an article notable - these events are relatively common and there's no evidence of lasting coverage. SportingFlyer T·C 17:27, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
40 people isn't a "few". 2605:8D80:400:9392:1D11:14AA:DB77:C88F (talk) 21:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)strike sock-- Ponyobons mots 17:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Turbulence occurs in such a way that passengers are injured very frequently and it makes a news cycle. There's nothing to suggest this will be any more notable than any of those non-notable events. SportingFlyer T·C 19:30, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But this is a larger than normal number of people who have been injured. 65.132.132.162 (talk) 20:27, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Look at LATAM Airlines Flight 800... Wonder what you'll say now huh. 2605:8D80:400:9392:D5DE:BDDD:4CB:2DBE (talk) 21:11, 2 July 2024 (UTC)strike sock-- Ponyobons mots 17:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Turbulence is such a regular occurrence in planes, but I'm assuming from the plane's flightpath, from it going from Spain to Uruguay which crosses the Equator. The "extreme turbulence" mentioned in the article might have been caused by the Equator's turbulence. A regular plane incident isn't worthy of Wikipedia standards.
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Anybody who wants to know if the article is worthy of being an article should read WP:PLANECRASH. 71.223.74.246 (talk) 20:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Said this like you've never did any research before, congrats. You didn't even acknowledge the amount of injuries and fatal injuries on this flight, take a look at LATAM Airlines Flight 800 and its the same exact incident. 2605:8D80:400:9392:D5DE:BDDD:4CB:2DBE (talk) 21:12, 2 July 2024 (UTC)strike sock[reply]
Plenty of flights cross the equator every day that do not experience such severe turbulence. Also, most emergency flights do not have any injuries at all. If this is a "regular plane incident" then that's news to me. Poxy4 (talk) 22:15, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you all must, maybe next time start such a discussion under the comment that is relevant to that discussion? gidonb (talk) 13:49, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:EVENTCRIT #4. The comparison with LATAM Airlines Flight 800 is irrelevant: firstly, WP:OTHERSTUFF doesn't determine the notability of this event, and in any case the fatality on LA800 and the procedural changes that resulted from the flight add notability that isn't present here. Rosbif73 (talk) 06:33, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Are you talking about SQ321 since it had a fatality and resulted in procedural changes? Aviationwikiflight (talk) 07:37, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oops, yes, confused those two – I've struck part of my comment accordingly. Rosbif73 (talk) 07:54, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Read articles and posts from the internet and people were being held up against the roof? I mean come on, you think this is common to you?? 2605:8D80:400:9392:798A:5167:ED51:6104 (talk) 18:06, 3 July 2024 (UTC)strike sock-- Ponyobons mots 17:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I advise you do some more research about this Air Europa incident because it clearly looks like you have not even tried to make an effort to. 10 people were badly injured and 30 others suffering other injuries. The connection between this and LATAM is relevant. The only difference was that this was due to bad turbulence. Would love to hear a reply from you because i seen you revert an edit from another article stating that this is a "run-of-the-mill"? Remember that 40+ including 10+(badly) were injured. 2605:8D80:400:9392:798A:5167:ED51:6104 (talk) 18:04, 3 July 2024 (UTC)strike sock-- Ponyobons mots 17:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:EVENTCRIT item 4 says Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, [...]) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance. The same applies to turbulence. This incident was more severe than average, sure, but it remains a run-of-the-mill event with no inherent notability. Rosbif73 (talk) 20:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Severe in-flight upset that resulted in 40 injuries and numerous hospitalizations. Has received significant media coverage and is thus notable enough to be included. As for WP:OSE, it would apply if these editors were saying "well if we delete this we have to delete the other one too," but that is not the case. Comparisons were drawn to LATAM 800 as a comparison. It too received significant media coverage and was deemed notable enough for an article. Perhaps you should review WP:ATAATA? Changing my vote to Delete, numerous editors have provided several sources and policies that apply almost perfectly to this article. Per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:RUNOFTHEMILL It only makes sense for me to change my vote. I do think we should make a list of turbulence-related in-flight upsets that have resulted in injuries though, so as to emphasize their increasing occurrence.Poxy4 (talk) 22:09, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"If we delete this we have to delete the other one" is not what WP:OTHERSTUFF is about. What it actually says is that the existence of an article about a similar topic cannot be used to justify a keep !vote (the case at hand), nor can the non-existence of a similar article be used to justify a delete. Rosbif73 (talk) 06:38, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've spent an hour reading your edit log and you seem to have always vote for delete. You seem to have huge hate for articles or something. 2605:8D80:400:9392:E4F1:C26C:D541:CCEA (talk) 09:43, 4 July 2024 (UTC)strike sock-- Ponyobons mots 17:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't make arguments to the person. I'm sure this person is a levelheaded Wikipedian who simply doesn't have the same view of Wikipedia as us, which is totally fine and doesn't mean he "hates articles." Poxy4 (talk) 15:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, I don't "hate articles", it's just that I would rather see articles about notable topics and notable events. Rosbif73 (talk) 15:45, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One of the qualifying factors for notability is that the event receives significant media coverage, which it has. multiple editors have provided sources that cover the flight. I myself heard about the incident through the news and came to Wikipedia for more information. Isn't that what all good encyclopedias should do? Poxy4 (talk) 17:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. 2605:8D80:400:9392:50A9:33C8:C6C4:BDF4 (talk) 22:20, 4 July 2024 (UTC)strike sock-- Ponyobons mots 17:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, actually, on reviewing OSE I have realized that that's pretty much what it says. However, the examples it gives are all two very different and unrelated articles, whereas LATAM800 and UX45 have undeniable similarities. We have decided that one is notable, so I believe this virtually identical incident is also notable. Poxy4 (talk) 15:22, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They're not similar, and each article has to stand on its own merits. LATAM 800 was either an issue with the plane or a pilot error, which is unique. This is simply that a plane went through turbulence and people were injured, which happens relatively frequently. SportingFlyer T·C 17:26, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
40 injured doesn't "happen frequently". 2605:8D80:400:9392:1D11:14AA:DB77:C88F (talk) 21:13, 4 July 2024 (UTC)strike sock-- Ponyobons mots 17:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
[4] [5] [6] [7] [8] How many of these flights have Wikipedia articles? SportingFlyer T·C 22:04, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This incident had more injuries and there were more damages to the aircraft than the Hawaiian incident. 2605:8D80:400:9392:50A9:33C8:C6C4:BDF4 (talk) 22:18, 4 July 2024 (UTC)strike sock-- Ponyobons mots 17:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That has nothing to do with our rules here on Wikipedia - we require sustained coverage for events, and considering how often events like this one occur, how rarely they have sustained coverage, and how there's not really any sustained coverage for this one - the vast majority of coverage is from the day of the event. SportingFlyer T·C 05:50, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I am neither in favor or opposed to deletion. However, I advise the IP to let this discussion run its course and not treat it as a WP:BATTLEGROUND. Calling others "trolls" and alleging that users "hate articles" is not constructive and will not help your case. - ZLEA T\C 21:33, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep - Air Europa Flight 045 is an ongoing event. Like SQ 321 and LATAM Flight 800, this latest plane incident receives significant coverage in news networks such as CNN and BBC, and I'm not surprised there will be an investigation conducted on this matter. I also agree with GalacticOrbits opinion, in which they mentioned there are some serious injuries that have taken place as a result of plane turbulence. Galaxybeing (talk) 03:26, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - The general notability guideline is partly based on how much coverage the event receives in the media. It's one of the reasons why the Disappearance of Jay Slater has an article and not a lot of other disappearances that have occured. UX45 has seen significant media coverage, which I think makes it notable. Poxy4 (talk) 14:30, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Just because something passes the WP:GNG does not mean we need to have an article on it, that is why we have WP:NOT. One of the specific parts of WP:NOT is WP:NOTNEWS: most newsworthy reports do not qualify for inclusion. For aviation events such as this one, sustained coverage is required. As I've noted above, most incidents of this type are not notable enough to receive a Wikipedia article, even though they make a full news cycle. While every article needs to be assessed on its own merits, I am not seeing anything which distinguishes this one from any of the other "injuries due to turbulence." But, regardless, just because the media writes about something doesn't mean we have to have an article on it. SportingFlyer T·C 14:40, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Plenty of emergency landings and in-flight turbulence events occur every week, but very few result in as much damage and injuries as this one. This has made a full news cycle and is still in the news several days later, which I think sets it apart from many other flights and warrants notability. Poxy4 (talk) 18:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I just did a Google News search, the event happened 4 days ago and there hasn't been an article written on the event in the past two days that was in the search. So I did a Bing news search, the only article written within the last 48 hours which came up was a Daily Mail piece, which clearly isn't notable. So I did a third news search, and again, nothing in the last two days. This doesn't have lasting notability. SportingFlyer T·C 19:34, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete – Per WP:NOTNEWS. Whilst the event has received a lot of coverage, the fact that (major) coverage ended 2-3 days ago (constituting mostly of breaking news coverage), compared to SQ321 where coverage continued for at least two weeks, makes this event fail WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE. Around 65,000 aircrafts suffer turbulence in the US, and about 5,500 experience severe turbulence, so cases such as this would be considered run-of-the-mill.[9] Aviationwikiflight (talk) 19:55, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Very few of the incidents result in injuries or are so shocking. One passenger was launched into an overhead bin and had to be pulled out by fellow passengers. That's not run-of-the-mill. Poxy4 (talk) 15:50, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Here are multiple examples of severe turbulence, where numerous injuries, some severe, were recorded: Qatar Airways, Hawaiian Airlines, Lufthansa, United Airlines, Turkish Airlines, Aerolíneas Argentinas, KLM, [Delta Air Lines], JetBlue, Aeroflot, Transavia, [Air Canada]. In the past 40 years, turbulence has increased by 55% making events like this increasingly more common,[10] [11] which makes these events, more often than not, run-of-the-mill. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 17:12, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Can't argue with the facts ig. Poxy4 (talk) 14:38, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOTNEWS. hamster717🐉(discuss anything!🐹✈️my contribs🌌🌠) 03:40, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus yet. Please offer arguments based in policy and sources that provide SIGCOV.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 16:33, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - This incident seems to be nothing more than a run of the mill aviation incident with no deaths or major ramifications compared to SQ321 or UAL826 or JAL706. --Jnglmpera (talk) 14:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

VanGrunsven RV-2[edit]

VanGrunsven RV-2 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails GNG, no mention in RS besides passing ones. Is not individually notable beyond its series. Air on White (talk) 18:30, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep -- the EAA video cited in the article has the interviewer ask the designer specifically about this design, and they discuss it in more than passing. The video from Van's about the restoration of another design which uses part of this design is also more than a passing reference, but since it's from the company themselves, it's not truly independent of the subject. In a case like this, where we have a series of 13 out of 14 closely-related articles that are all patently notable, and 1 out of 14 that's iffy, I think it makes sense to WP:IAR if we don't have the magic three sources.
[edit] Oh, and procedural note: this AfD and the nom's approach to a good faith mistake by the article's newbie creator[12] is one of the worst examples of biting I can recall seeing. And it appears to have worked; he hasn't edited since, nor responded to an attempt to reach out to him. --Rlandmann (talk) 00:12, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When did U5-tagging an unsourced autobiography that promotes the author's resume become "biting"? Are we so scared of scaring off newbies that we allow whatever promotion and spam they insert? Has the blame shifted from spammers and COIS to the new page patrollers and admins who work the speedy deletion process? Air on White (talk) 00:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please take some time to read over this section of the behavioural guideline and reflect a little. With behavioural guidelines, it's less about what you did, and how you did it. I completely believe that you acted in 100% good faith here, but the outcome was still a bad one for the newbie and for the project. I've done patrolling in the past, and I know what a grind it can be (and how valuable it is to the encyclopedia). But if sustaining that fight is taking its toll and leading to actions like this, it might be time for a rest for a while and work on writing about something that brings you joy and recharges you. --Rlandmann (talk) 00:40, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you concretely explain what I did wrong? How is this case is different from normal? Are you yourself aware of your patronizing, judgmental tone? Air on White (talk) 01:01, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'm very happy to dive into this in detail with you; but I'll take it to your talk page. I apologise if you don't like my tone; it's not my intention to come across that way. That said, there's a profound difference between two highly experienced editors communicating in a forum like this vs how a highly experienced editor with tools permissions treated a well-meaning newbie. I would additionally suggest however, that both your responses here confirm my impression that time on the front line might be taking a toll. More shortly in a different place.--Rlandmann (talk) 01:12, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't trying to promote anything. I am content with my employment (i.e. not looking to get into anything else) and my company makes business-to-business products (i.e. it's not like a Wikipedia reader is going to decide to buy a cargo jet after reading that I work on them). I thought that writing about myself would (A) establish that I'm knowledgeable about my field (including awareness about good public sources to get relevant details from) and (B) show that I'm trying to be honest and to do things in good faith since I'm tying my actions on Wikipedia to my real name and career, not an anonymous pseudonym. But, ok, if there is no advantage to being a real expert rather than a random anonymous stranger on the internet, I can create a pseudonymous screen name instead and use that (other than for uploading images, which I do intend to retain ownership of). Bernardo.Malfitano (talk) 15:44, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now to the actual argument of the keep post. Interviews do not always contribute to notability. The Van's video most definitely does not count as a source as it is not independent at all - all company videos can be assumed to be promotional sources that do not undergo the rigorous fact-checking of RS. It provides 0 sources toward the "magic three." The only other source is the EAA video. Can you provide the timestamp of the interview where the RV-2 is mentioned? It is also equivalent to a serious, reliable documentary? At best, it is 1 source. No amount of invalid sources adds up to notability—0+0+0+...+0 = 0. This keep case stretches and twists policy—the independence of sources and the threshold of GNG—to shoehorn a topic of supposedly inherited notability into Wikipedia. Air on White (talk) 01:01, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, just verifying my own understanding here: when you opened this AfD and asserted that there were "no mention in RS besides passing ones", you had not actually viewed the sources? --Rlandmann (talk) 01:20, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep for now Comment. This article has only been here a few days. I think it's too early to judge what RS might or might not be out there. By all means tag it as short on RS, but deletion is premature. Having said that, Van's Aircraft's own puff about its planes starts with the RV-3, so seeking sufficient RS to support this article could be a fool's errand. Or maybe merging into Van's Aircraft will prove a good middle way. I'd suggest we revisit this in a month or so. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 06:42, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    [Update] See comment below following relisting, now that some of that time has passed. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 20:24, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm new to Wikipedia and I obviously can't claim to understand the rules and the culture thoroughly. If you guys decide that the article should be deleted, then, that's fine, do what you think is best.
FWIW, my rationale for creating the article was the following: Van's Aircraft is far and away the world leader in experimental airplanes, with over 11000 airplanes flying and countless others being built. When people in the aviation world first learn about Van's - or maybe after investigating RV airplanes for a while - the question naturally comes up: If it's so easy to find out about the RV-1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, and 15, then... What about the RV-2, 5, and 11? Now, again, I'm not 100% sure that Wikipedia is the place for (at least a very summarized version of) the answer, but... Firstly: Wikipedia already had an article for the RV-11 (which made it a little further in its construction but was also unfinished). And secondly: Wikipedia has countless articles about concept aircraft that never made it into the air, included in the encyclopedia because they're part of a series where people often wonder about missing numbers (The X-6 and X-54 didn't make it very far at all, and the X-33 and X-57 were cancelled after substantial prototyping and subsystems tests but before completion of the final vehicle), or because the development project was large and/or resulted in relevant technologies or partnerships or R&D later used for other things (National AeroSpace Plane, Boeing 2707, Lockheed L-2000, High Speed Civil Transport, Aerion SBJ and AS2...). So I figured, if all those X planes and supersonic transports that never made it off the drawing board all warrant Wikipedia articles (and the RV-11 apparently does too), then the RV-2 probably does too.
But, again, I'm new here, and if my reasoning goes against how you guys think Wikipedia should be run, then, do whatever you think is best. Bernardo.Malfitano (talk) 15:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In short: The page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Aircraft/Notability states, under "Projects and studies", that such aircraft "are generally discouraged unless reliable sources provide strong evidence that the project (...) is a significant project by a manufacturer of otherwise notable aircraft". It seems to me that the RV-2 and its article meet this criterion. Bernardo.Malfitano (talk) 18:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am so glad to see you back! I was really worried that we might have scared you off.
Note that that guideline is an unofficial one and does not trump the General Notability Guidelines. (It's also ancient and reflects Wikipedia practices from 10-15 years ago, so needs to be brought into line with current practice...) --Rlandmann (talk) 22:01, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: While the !votes thus far all favor keep, their arguments call for (reasoned) exceptions to policy/guidelines rather than basing themselves on it, so a relist to allow for further discussion seems appropriate.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 13:54, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On a point of order, my "Keep for now" is based on Articles for deletion where it says; "Wikipedia policy encourages editors to use deletion as a "last resort" following attempts to improve an article by conducting additional research." (my bold). I am pointing out above that those attempts need time. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 15:06, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- I endorse User:Rosguill's summary of the situation. And, after further research and further discussion with the contributor, I'll add that it seems really unlikely that further RS will be forthcoming anytime soon. Based on the sources that we do have, then at worst, this material should be merged elsewhere. However, there's no clear, logical place to do that. In other, similar situations, we merge information about minor aircraft projects (particularly unbuilt or unfinished ones) into the article on a related design. However, in this case, this was a stand-alone design that isn't related to anything else that Richard VanGrunsven designed or built. Which means that his bio is the most obvious destination if we were to do a merge, but would create serious undue weight there. So yes, if we do decide to keep this information in a separate article, it is as an exception, and one based purely on information architecture, not on the Notability of this design per se. --Rlandmann (talk) 10:59, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Bio. Thank you for your additional research. I don't think your suggested merge to his bio would be unduly undue, as it were. There are several paras about his planes there and the meat of this one is really quite small. Alternatively, since the canopy was used for the VanGrunsven RV-5, it might be merged there, but I agree that is not very satisfactory. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 11:27, 27 June 2024 (UTC) [add clear !vote — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:00, 6 July 2024 (UTC)][reply]
Pinging everyone who wanted this merged: Rlandmann and Steelpillow. Best, gidonb (talk) 19:24, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks User:gidonb -- the problem here is that the RV-2 and RV-11 are not Van's Aircraft designs or products, and should be removed from that list ASAP. (I've left them there for now pending this discussion) Note how they're missing from the timeline graphic immediately below. Creating a similar list of all Richard VanGrunsven's designs in his bio would be one merge that could work and still avoid unduly unbalancing that article. I'd hate to lose the images of the RV-2 and RV-11 now that we have them though, and also don't want to dominate VanGrunsven's bio with a table of all his designs and pictures. If the outcome of this process is merge, maybe we should create a separate list article for all VanGrunsven's designs, with an image of each. I think that would cover all the concerns that have come up in this discussion. --Rlandmann (talk) 23:04, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now as the best way forward, given Rlandmann's input. gidonb (talk) 23:12, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Procedural relist to rescue lost AfD
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, * Pppery * it has begun... 03:51, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]