Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/History of the Office of the Inspector General of the United States Army/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 6 May 2019 [1].

History of the Office of The Inspector General of the United States Army[edit]

Nominator(s): Eddie891 Talk Work 01:08, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a relatively unknown, yet fairly important office of the United States Army. After a GA review from Gog the Mild, an A-class review from Peacemaker67, Dumelow, and Zawed, I feel this meets the criteria. Eddie891 Talk Work 01:08, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass[edit]

I carried out the source review for ACR (and assessed the article at GAN) and deliberately pitched it at FAC level, sorry Eddie. Skimming the minor changes since then, I feel that I can simply repeat my summary from there:

The sources are all solidly reliable. I am unable to find any other sources which would materially add to the content of the article. The sources referred to seem to support the text cited, insofar as I have checked them. I found no unattributed close paraphrasing. The limited direct copying is of PD sources and is appropriately attributed. I consider the sources to be current, as these things go. Everything that I would expect to be cited, is.

@FAC coordinators: Could you let me know if a first FAC spot check is required? I have done a couple, but not, IMO, sufficient for a first FA check. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:10, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support by PM[edit]

I went over this article with a fine tooth comb at Milhist ACR, have looked at the minor changes since it was promoted, and consider it meets the FA criteria. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:17, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

image review

  • Suggest |upright=1 for all portraits
  • File:Baron_Steuben_by_Peale,_1780.jpg needs a US PD tag. Same with File:Randolph_B._Marcy_-_Brady-Handy.jpg. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:25, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nikkimaria: both changes done. tks! Eddie891 Talk Work 12:33, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SupportComments from Tim riley[edit]

Shall look in again more thoroughly soon, but meanwhile the BrE "recognised" seems out of place in so American an article. Tim riley talk 00:18, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support. A few minor points, which don't affect my support:

  • Lead. At first sight it seems very short – at 107 words – for an article of more than 3,000 words, but having read through the article I can't see what else could usefully be added to the lead. The MoS says, "The lead should stand on its own as a concise overview of the article's topic. It should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies," and I think this lead, though short, does that.
  • "relatively unchanged" crops up three times in the article. "Relatively" seems to me an unsatisfactory, vague word here: relative to what?
  • "de facto" is not italicised in our article on the term, and I doubt if it should be here.
  • I paused for a bit about the bills in 1902 and 1903: the first originally proposed to abolish the Inspector General's Department and the second proposed to abolish the post of inspector general (and his department?) but no reason is mentioned. It would be relevant and interesting to say why the idea was mooted.

Few of the sources are especially recent, but the subject of the article does not strike one as needing particularly recent scholarship. The article seems to me to meet all the FA criteria. – Tim riley talk 11:56, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comments[edit]

As this is the nominator's first time at FAC, this will require a source spot-check for verifiability and close paraphrasing. Thanks for asking, Gog the Mild. --Laser brain (talk) 19:39, 11 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

First FAC checks - pass[edit]

  • Paraphrasing already checked.

Cite spot checks:

  • Cite 2 - tick.
  • Cite 65 - there should be a comma after "p. 268". I struggle to see how some of the pages cited relate to the paragraph in question. Could you clarify? Specifically, but not necessarily only, pages 268, 295 and 309. (See also comment against cite 68, and the final sentence of my summary.)
    • Sure. 252 cites In the period after World War I, the inspectorate dealt with many problems, including complaints over misdirected mail, misconduct by soldiers and damage to civilian property 268 is unnecessary. 295 cites and Germany (until 1923). 309 cites Russia (until 1920), 313-14 cite the same year a plan to severely limit the Department's responsibilities was proposed. and 330, 1, and 2 cite By 1920, 33 officers were in the Office of the Inspector General, while 54 remained at camps or in the geographical departments. In 1915 the office had handled about 9,500 actions, while by 1921 it processed nearly 17,700.67.242.19.37 (talk) 00:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite 38 - tick.
  • Cite 16 - tick; tick.
  • Cite 42 - tick.
  • Cite 25 - reorder pages in numerical order.
  • Cite 69 - specify page number(s)
  • Cite 68 - this cites 20 pages to cover "By the mid 1930s the War Department inspectorate was averaging about sixty major investigations annually. The department became responsible for inspecting the Civilian Conservation Corps in 1933." It is probably possible to boil this down to two pages.

Nb, these are in addition to spot checks I carried out, but did not specifically record, at GAN, ACR and the ordinary FAC source review above. Actually I am impressed. Apart from a tendency to over-cover with Whiitehorne it is good.

Gog the Mild (talk) 21:14, 11 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Eddie891: Gog the Mild (talk) 18:47, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I’m out of town until Tuesday. I’ll get to it then if that’s ok. Eddie891 Talk Work 00:22, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Whenever you can Eddie. No rush. Gog the Mild (talk) 07:22, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Eddie891 *cough* Gog the Mild (talk) 20:36, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Gog the Mild: I think I got them all on 22 April... Let me know if I didn't Eddie891 Talk Work 22:42, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Eddie891. Apologies if I have missed a ping. That all seems tickety boo to me. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:33, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Dank[edit]

  • This nomination page has the wrong title; the second "the" should be lowercase. When this page is promoted, I'll put the blurb review at the correct talk page. - Dank (push to talk) 01:18, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dank see the note and cited page in the article -- it is actually the Office of The Inspector General of the United States Army (hence the OTIG acronym). See their website. I'm not sure why P. S. Burton moved the pages.

This status was noted symbolically in 1924. General Helmick, along with several other department heads, was authorized to capitalize the word The in his title. A precedent for this practice was made in 1907, when General Ainsworth converted his office from Military Secretary back to Adjutant General. The general order directing this change specified that the word The would precede the title designation of the department head. Since then the heads of other similar departments periodically agitated for a similar distinction, achieving success in 1924. At this time General llelmick had the title of The Inspector General. Although the use of capitalization was restricted to the head of the department or agency, the office acronym reflected the change- for example, Helmick's office symbol changing from OIG to OTIG

— page 320
Eddie891 Talk Work 17:10, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, it appears to be lowercased everywhere in Wikipedia other than this page title, or it was when I checked. I won't take a position on this. - Dank (push to talk) 17:14, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am happy to. The common and accepted usage is "The". Wikipedia should reflect this, even if it is going be a Canute-type task rolling back all of the Wikipedians who assume that they have found a typo. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:18, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Opposing until the capitalization of this page title, the article title, and the article's first sentence match each other. Again, I don't care which way you go, but it has to be consistent. Also, the first sentence isn't up to FAC standards; I can't think of a single Good Article or Featured Article that starts off by simply quoting an institution's opinion of itself, using promotional language. - Dank (push to talk) 18:50, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dank: I moved this page. After reading MOS:INSTITUTIONS ("* The word the at the start of a title is uncapitalized, regardless of the institution's own usage (researchers at the Ohio State University not researchers at The Ohio State University).) I have determined this is essentially the same thing, and it should be moved. Eddie891 Talk Work 00:26, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good call. Striking. Please do something about the first sentence of the lead. - Dank (push to talk) 00:39, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay ... that's better. Now it's in "that's not my call" territory. - Dank (push to talk) 02:21, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Coord note -- Guys, changing the name of an article mid-FAC is probably best avoided these days as it seems to play merry hell with FACbot at promotion time, and also day-to-day as I suspect it's the reason this nom keeps getting moved towards the top of the list each day. Frankly I'd prefer to see the move reversed and then do it again after that nom has closed. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:55, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The name of the article is the same as it was when I commented; it's the name of this page that was changed to match the article. (I do see that it confused FACBot ... maybe now that it's on FACBot's list, it won't do that again?) - Dank (push to talk) 05:34, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Mm, but the article name was still changed after the FAC started. No, FACbot hasn't adjusted to the new name of the nom, it's pushed this page to the top of the list two days running. Hawkeye7, what would you suggest as the best way forward to get everything back on track? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:39, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No objection to never changing the article name or the nom page name during FAC, if that's what you want ... as long as we can fix either or both after promotion, if they need fixing. - Dank (push to talk) 11:18, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The FACBot reads the nominations page containing the nominations, gets their change histories, and sorts them into order. In this case, the page referred to was the redirect, so it was using the date of creation of the redirect which was being used. The simplest solution (which I have effected), is to change the name of the template on the nominations page to the underlying page, thereby bypassing the redirect. The FACBot can determine if a page is a redirect, but how to proceed requires thought. I have created a fix that reads the page, and if it is a redirect, uses the date of the target page. I don't want to implement it until next week though. There are some further issues with redirects that I would like to test. I recommend not promoting the article until then, if that is possible. The Bot should be able to seamlessly cater for page renames. I realise that this is necessary in some cases. Changing it after the review can be just as disruptive to the Today's Featured Article and Featured Articles Not on Main Page runs. Unfortunately, the Bot cannot carry out the renaming procedure for you, as that is an admin function, and I'm not an admin, so I cannot operate an admin bot. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:16, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ouch. Sounds like we don't want to change the FAC nom page name after promotion, if I'm understanding "disruptive" right. - Dank (push to talk) 21:23, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Every time we fetch a page, there is the possibility of it being a redirect. Sometimes we want the redirect page, and sometimes we want the redirect page. Here's an odd case. The Bot needs the target page to assess its date of creation; but we don't change the entry on the nominations page when we update it (although we could). There are various potential problems with redirects. The one I most fear is putting a star on the redirect page. There is a tricky situation if page and its nomination page do not match. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:42, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley[edit]

  • The lead is very short. I suggest expanding it to two paragraphs.
  • "nearly abolished on several occasions". According to the main text it was abolished on several occasions and later reinstated
  • "None of the European systems of inspecting worked well for the Continental Army, but elements from all three, particularly the British system, were incorporated." Why were they unsuitable and which elements were incorporated? The text below suggests an initial French influence, a manual written by a Prussian adopted until 1812 and thereafter wholly US ideas. How did British ideas come in? How long did the foreign influences last?
  • I would mention that d'Arendt and von Steuben were both Prussian.
  • "The duties of inspector general were performed by Abimael Y. Nicoll" Presumably after Pike's death, but you should say so.
  • "to assume responsibility for technical proficiency inspections of the army's nuclear surety program worldwide". I am not clear what this means. Inspection of the adequacy of programs for preventing accidental or rogue launches of nucler weapons?
  • "In 1961, instruction was delivered to Republic of Korea Army officers in Seoul, Korea, and to Nationalist Chinese Army officers in Taipei, Formosa." Is this worth mentioning? The British army gives instructions to officers of many foreign armies every year and presumably the same is true of the US army. (If it is mentioned it should be Taiwan, not Formosa.)
    • I think it shows that the United States IG program has become very proficient and has spread across the world. While giving instruction to other armies is not notable, it is rather uncommon for the IG program to be providing instruction. I can remove if you feel it necessary. Eddie891 Talk Work 00:03, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead and foreign influences need expansion, but apart from these points the article seems to me close to FA. Dudley Miles (talk) 10:15, 19 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments

  • I have some queries on the expanded lead.
  • "when caseload of the department rising 360 percent from 1916 to 1917." This is ungrammatical.
  • "Investigations rose further after the war under Hugh Aloysius Drum." 1. "after the war" usually refers to WWII. "between the wars" would be clearer. 2. Why pick out Drum? His own article does not even mention that he was IG in the lead and states that he was in office for a year. I would delete the mention of him here. 3. The main text appears to say that there was a decline. It says that officers peaked at 248 in 1919 and nearly 17,700 "actions" by 1921, down to 40 officers by 1923, then an expansion in 1930s. No numbers are given on officers in the 1930s but 60 "major investigations" annually. This still appears a decline compared with WWI but what do "actions" mean as opposed to "major investigations".
    • rephrased. Actions are much smaller than major investigations, more than that I cannot say. Eddie891 Talk Work 22:48, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "During and after World War II, the department increased in size to the point that it had around 2,000 officers in 1993." But the article says 3,000 officers in 1945 so there was a decline after the war. Dudley Miles (talk) 21:08, 28 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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