Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology

Question of correct naming and spelling in English, translating Polish

Greetings to all! I copy discussion from talk page of --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here}and also from article Heraldic family. I invite You to discuss this matter to reach consensus.

Free equivalents of non-free COA

I'm wondering whether anyone from WP:HERALDRY would mind taking a shot at creating some free quivalents for the following non-free COA: File:Coat of Arms of Norberto do Amaral.png, File:Coat of arms of Harry Goodhew.jpg, File:Coat of arms of Kay Goldsworthy.gif, File:Coat of arms of OM XII Fajutagana.png, File:Coat of arms of OM XIV Porlares.png, File:Coat of Arms of Felipe Pulido(San Diego).jpg, File:Coat of Arms of Jeffrey Marc Monforton(Detroit).jpg and File:Coat of arms of archbishop Thomas Chung An-zu.png. All these were almost certainly uploaded in good faith, but there seem to be issues with them per WP:FREER and WP:NFC#CS that might mean they can't per WP:NFCC given that it's only the emblazon, not the blazon, that is generally considered eligible for copyright protection when it comes to COA; so, freely licensed emblazons of equivalent quality could replace these non-free ones. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:13, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Here's one of them (already added it to Wikidata and the article), File:Coat of arms of Bishop Felipe Pulido (San Diego, California).svg ⇒ Zhing-Za, they/them, 19:21, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for doing that Zhing'za zï Ïnin. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:01, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Looking for freely licensed equivalent emblazon for non-free COA

I'm looking for someone who could create a freely licensed equivalent embazon for the non-free File:Latymer Upper School coat of arms 2020 –.png. Anyone able to do so? -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:09, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

here you go

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⇒ Zhing-Za, they/them, 06:21, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for that Zhing'za zï Ïnin -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:25, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Another non-free emblazon related request

Does anyone want to take a shot at creating a freely licensed equivalent for File:Joy alappat motto.jpeg? -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:53, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

General Statement on Heraldic Copyright Policy

@Justlettersandnumbers has asked if we have an informed consensus on copyright policy with regards to heraldic blazon. This is an issue that is raised perennially so it would be nice to have a clear reference statement on the matter. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 18:36, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I assume you're referring, not to the copyright of the blazon itself (which usually doesn't run to more than 20–30 words, so is acceptable as a quotation under normal copyright rules), but to copyright in artistic renditions of the blazon – in which case I absolutely agree. The guidance I'm currently aware of includes an essay (so useful, but not policy) at WP:Copyright on emblems; and something a bit more definite at Commons:Coats of arms. However, those just aren't well enough known, and as you say this issue comes up repeatedly. I'd suggest we try to get something onto the WP:Image use policy page, comparable to the section on Diagrams and other images, which states "User-made images can also include the recreation of graphs, charts, drawings, and maps directly from available data, as long as the user-created format does not mimic the exact style of the original work": that same principle applies to subtly variant artistic renditions drawn from blazons. We also need to get a clear consensus with regard to vexillology, where there may or may not be a written description of the flag, but where similar principles again apply. GrindtXX (talk) 14:16, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

In this particular instance I (and by extension he) was indeed referring to the blazon itself. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 22:25, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Camilla's arms as queen consort in Scotland

This tweet by Alastair Bruce of Crionaich shows Her Majesty's stallplate and banner as a Lady of the Thistle. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 12:24, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Cubs Win Flag

Cubs Win Flag has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Hog Farm _Talk 01:30, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Coat of arms of England

Coat of arms of England has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 03:35, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Flag of Ecuador

Flag of Ecuador has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 15:38, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Slovakia Municipality Task Force

Hey y'all! Over the past few months I've been working to complete WikiProject's database of Slovakian municipality flags. I've finished about 90% of them, but the remaining 10% is the hard part as tends to happen. I've already got a personal subpage for keeping track of the remaining work. Because of this, I'd like to create a vexillology task force for this project and would like to hear y'all's thoughts on this, thanks! EnzoTC (talk) 20:53, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Made it! EnzoTC (talk) 02:06, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Swedish heraldry

Swedish heraldry has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 07:18, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Response from the Lyon Court

Many in this project have been frustrated by the lack of information about the arms of certain members of the British royal family in the past two years. I tested out the option of asking the heraldic authorities directly. I have had indirect contact with officers of arms on quite a few occasions (such as at society meetings) but I decided to use the WhatDoTheyKnow platform so that any response would be publicly cite-able.

Two days ago I submitted this question:

Dear Court of the Lord Lyon,

Two years into the New Carolean period there remains some ambiguity about the armorial bearings of His Majesty's wife and sons. I request some clarification on the following points: 1. Her Majesty Queen Camilla was appointed a Lady of the Thistle last year. Her escutcheon and banner have since been put on display at the High Kirk of Edinburgh in the usual manner. Has she also been granted the use of supporters? 2. His Royal Highness Prince William, Earl of Strathearn, was granted a differenced version of the royal arms during the previous reign (also displayed at the High Kirk). Upon his father's accession he became heir apparent to the throne, Duke of Rothesay, etc. Has he acquired the use of arms, badges, banners etc. associated with that status? 3. Has the Earl of Dumbarton ever been granted a differenced version of the royal arms for use within the Lord Lyon's jurisdiction? 4. Are the Duchess of Rothesay and the Countess of Dumbarton armigerous within said jurisdiction? Yours faithfully,

Robin S. Taylor

Today I received this response:

Dear Mr Taylor, The Lyon Office is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act, we are a public register, as such, we facilitate access for researchers and genealogists to search our archives, we do not research these records for third parties. The information we hold is also available through the Scotland's People website under their Legal search option. If you wish to research British Royal heraldry, this information is held in the College of Arms in London, we hold one Royal arms, that of the Monarch's Royal Arms as used in Scotland.

Kind regards

Kevin

— Kevin Greig Lyon Office Manager, Court of the Lord Lyon

This is broadly in line with what I was expecting (i.e. that they're not required to answer these requests so the information is reserved for paying customers) though the use of "research" struck me as a little strange given one would expect these details of living royals to be in present use and not to need any digging (though they may simply have refused on principle to avoid opening the door to more onerous requests). That final sentence is the most intriguing - the Lyon Court only holds the monarch's undifferenced arms, and anything else is found at the College of Arms, even though I explicitly asked about the Lord Lyon's jurisdiction.

I will note that another user, L R Jones has spent the past few weeks emailing multiple local councils in England to ask for clarification on their armorial bearings and has been successful in most of them. Of course, these requests are rather different in scope to mine.

Robin S. Taylor (talk) 21:45, 1 October 2024 (UTC)