Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision

Usage of images

Hi everyone.

I don't know if it has already been raised, but I want to reconsider the use of images not related to the event to which an article refers (ESC, national final, etc.) in this project. I am referring to the use of images of people, or buildings, not taken at the event to which the article refers. I don't know what value the photo of the façade of the venue adds to the article if it's not dressed up for that specific event, or the photo of a singer or presenter if it is not from its participation in the event. I know that it is fancy to have images in the articles, and that for old events is difficult to find photos of them, but instead of adding photos from another time, I think it is better not to have them, even more so if they are interfering with the tables and the infobox and breaking the format of the article in some cases. What do you think? Ferclopedio (talk) 11:40, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. It's always better to have pictures from that specific time, but if none are available, then another picture should be used — IмSтevan ^talk 12:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. While it's ideal to have pictures from the specific event, using related images when none are available can still add value to the article. Ktkvtsh (talk) 16:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with ImStevan and Ktkvtsh on this. I believe that as a project we are very cognisant of what images are included on the articles, at least I know I am. Are there any examples where you believe the addition of images detracts from the article that you would like to share? If there's something that you think is in contravention of MOS:IMAGES then I think that is worthy of discussion, but I definitely do not support a blanket ban on the use of images of people, or buildings, not taken at the event to which the article refers. If we were to take your suggestion and apply it as a rule consistently then there would be a lot of articles which we would never be able to add images for because of copyright law, and the lack of suitable free imagery which has been made available on Commons. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 19:52, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are already many contest articles that do not have any image. And also many who have photos of their own edition. The use of photos out of time is not everywhere, but there are some contests that have them. There are cases that those images have a good size for the place where they are located, don't interfere with any table, and have sense to be there, like 2006, I'm fine with that. But there are cases like 1974, 1975, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, and 1997 that have vertical photos of a big size, not from that edition, that interfere with a table (or making it narrower -what expand it vertically- or leaving a big white space before the table in some screen sizes), and that makes me wonder why that exact photo is there. Also 1980 with photos of good size and of the event that interfere with the table and 1998 with a vertical photo of other event too big for the section. Cases like those are the ones that raised that question in me and that's why I asked here about that. Ferclopedio (talk) 23:08, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes of course not every article requires an image, but I think for Eurovision, where there are a lot of people involved, images are a very useful tool that adds value to these articles, and I believe that for the vast majority of our articles MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE is being maintained. Being illustrated by relevant media where possible is also one of the Good article criteria. For the vast majority of instances which you listed, and granted a lot of them are articles which I improved to GA status, what images have been placed where has been given some thought, e.g. a notable past participant, a former winner returning etc. It's not just random images being added to articles because we can, there is thought being put behind it. Additionally, as you can see at WP:WHITE, sometimes white space is unavoidable anyway, depending on your browser, font size, screen size etc. We have a lot of tables within these articles, and particularly the Participants table is near the top of each article, so even the placement of tables in relation to the infobox is going to create white space. Sure sizing of the images could potentially be looked at again, but I think for the majority of cases the sizing of each image is also generally ok. It's not been something that's come up in my past GA review for example. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ESC Director

If "the ESC Director will oversee the work of the existing Executive Supervisor and a new role entitled Head of ESC Brand and Commercial",[1] then surely the infobox should from 2025 onwards display the director, as that role seems to now trump the supervisor, right? — IмSтevan ^talk 08:20, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we could possibly do that, however given the roles are still being developed and there is a lot unknown at this stage about how the team will look (and since we don't even have confirmed names for any of the named roles directly involved in ESC production in 2025 bar the SRG SSR exec producers) I'd say we can hold off for now until we get more clarity about what the roles are and how they intersect with the contest. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 08:43, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources: eurovisionartists.nl / natfinals.50webs.com

Just to alert you that a discussion on these two websites is going on at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision/Sources. There is no consensus so far, you are welcome to have your say! EurovisionLibrarian (talk) 17:57, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Issue with logo image

File:Eurovision Young Musicians 2024 logo.png Hey all, does anybody know how to fix this or could find a better alternative? Thanks, Fort esc (talk) 23:18, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey @Fort esc, I have just updated it to a black version, thanks for bringing this up! Aris Odi ❯❯❯ talk 03:54, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Broadcaster in the infobox song contest national year

Hi. I don't know if this has ever been discussed before, but I'm wondering why the participating broadcaster is not in the Infobox song contest national year, when it is actually the one entering the contest. Ferclopedio (talk) 08:39, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, why is it not? — IмSтevan ^talk 08:40, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's a really good question, it really should include that. Aris Odi ❯❯❯ talk 11:20, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I hadn't considered this. I support changing the infobox to include this. Ktkvtsh (talk) 16:08, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flags or hearts

Why are we utilizing default flags in tables and infoboxes when heart-flags of Eurovision are available to us? Much like Olympic pictograms on its pages, surely we could utilize a part of Eurovision's branding and recognizability on its pages, as such:

First semi-final of the Eurovision Song Contest 2024
R/O	Country	Artist	Song	Points	Place
1	Moldova	Natalia Barbu	"In the Middle"	20	4
2	Cyprus	Silia Kapsis	"Liar"	67	2
3	Serbia	Teya Dora	"Ramonda"	47	3
4	Lithuania	Silvester Belt	"Luktelk"	119	1
5	Iceland	Hera Björk	"Scared of Heights"	3	5

— IмSтevan ^talk 15:59, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit: These flags are also all in the same dimensions, which would create consistency — IмSтevan ^talk 18:16, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is a great idea. I support the use of these instead of the rectangle flags for Eurovision related tables such as the example above. Ktkvtsh (talk) 16:07, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think such a change is absolutely pointless. It may be branding but we're not here for branding, are we? And also I personally don't like it esthetically... Yoyo360 (talk) 16:39, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Yoyo360, I don't think these look good at all, and the Wikipedia article that you linked literally has flags in their respective rectangular shapes on it Spleennn (talk) 18:58, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was talking about sports pictograms — IмSтevan ^talk 19:04, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and I was talking about flags. I don't understand the logic in changing how the flags on one Wikipedia page look according to the way that sport pictograms look on a different page, when the same page has flags that look exactly how the current flags on Eurovision Wikipedia look. Spleennn (talk) 19:55, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The point was that it's not unprecedented to use icons in tables like that. I suggested it because these hearts are tied to these countries' presence at the contest, but perhaps it makes sense not to use them as they didn't even exist until 2004 — IмSтevan ^talk 20:16, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'm not sure that the use of the heart-flags can be applied in a general way, for several reasons.

- First, as it is noted on the page where it lists them: "heart-flags are not adopted until Eurovision Song Contest (ESC) 2004, Junior Eurovision Song Contest (JESC) 2008, and never exist in Eurovision Young Dancers (EYD), Eurovision Young Musicians (EYM) and Eurovision Magic Circus Show (EMCS)", so the use of heart-flags in a general way, besides being weird, is not historically accurate. In addition, we have two versions of the heart-flags, the one 2004-14 and the 2015-present, and the one corresponding to the year in question should be used. This would lead us to the flags being displayed differently depending on the year.

- Second, that the use of the heart-flags means to modify the Country in the Eurovision Song Contest template according to everything said above. An additional year (or flag shape version) parameter will have to be added to the template so that it can display the correct flag, which means that it would have to be edited every time that the template is used to set the corresponding year (flag shape version).

- Third, the fact that rectangular flags were used some years and heart-shaped flags other years leads to the question of what to do with the most relevant flag, the large flag in the Infobox song contest country. Should it be rectangular or heart-shaped?. If it is heart-shaped, you have to make sure it is displayed correctly in the infobox, in the Wikipedia search box, and in the pop-ups when hovering over links. Either way it would not be coherent in either case, since there would be three different shaped flags all over the years. Ferclopedio (talk) 20:26, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ImStevan, I just read your last reply just after finishing writing my long paragraph. Let it be noted that I don't dislike the idea, but I'm not sure its application is possible when taking into account all the cases. Ferclopedio (talk) 20:49, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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