Portal:Ukraine/Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board/Archive 4

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ukrainian Christmas

Take a look at the info at Christmas_worldwide#Ukraine and Winter_holiday_greetings#Languages_other_than_English and help me decide what to keep and what to delete. 198.161.51.2 20:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Ukrainian rulers

Is there an article listing all of the Ukrainian rulers (from Kievan Rus' - Present), like the article List of Russian rulers? If there is, what it is called? --Boguslav 23:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

No, or at least not that I know of... You can create it if you like... —dima/s-ko/ 23:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Ludmila Bereznitsky

The article is currently on VfD. Could someone take a look here? Pavel Vozenilek 23:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Meteorite Craters in Ukraine

The articles in the Category:Craters of Ukraine require some attention in terms of links to these articles or some additional information. Currently these articles very loosely related to Ukraine. Some of the articles were about to be deleted. This information is valueable. Please help. Thank you! Solarapex 01:04, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Articles on Zaporizhian Cossacks

Articles on Zaporizhian Cossacks Zaporizhian Host and Zaporizhian Sich present in their significant part one-sided Russian propaganda point of view, where all negative parts of Russian Tsars policies carefully omitted. Tries to present the opinion of the Ukrainian sources are erased.

More of that, some passages in discussion and article itself disappear without mark in history?

Does Ukrainian historians point of view deserve to be presented in Ukraine related articles? Ans-mo 10:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:NPOV means that a neutral NOT a Ukrainian point of view on history must be presented. --Kuban Cossack 11:45, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Neutral, but not Russian one-sided point of view. If Russian-Empire loving point is presented, why should not be presented Ukrainian source in the article for Ukrainian Cossacks? Ans-mo 12:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Where do you see a Russian Empire loving point? Please give examples. If some details are omitted then it is wrt context not to POVs. Like this feaces The abolishment of the Zaporizhian Sich remained a tragic event in the Ukrainian folklore and peoples memory, where frequently expressed negative attitude towards Empress Catherine and Moscovites (moskal), who ruined the stronghold of the Ukrainian dignity and independence. Wikipedia is not a private political website where one can brag about how the evil terrible finno-urgic Moskals (or whatever the trend amongst Ukrainian nationalists of calling us now...) destroyed the poor helpless (but alas independent!) Ukraine. --Kuban Cossack 12:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Omitted deliberately are facts of real suffering of Cossacks from Russian rulers and multiply repressions of them. Such facts in multitude are presented in the Ukrainian sources, mentioned in the Discussion page of Zaporizhian Sich. As for folklore, do you need example of correspondent Ukrainian song or Shevchenko poems in Ukrainian? Or you think Cossacks should have expressed gratitude for ruining their Sich? Ans-mo 12:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Opinions like The abolishment of the Zaporizhian Sich remained a tragic event .. or e.g. True progenitors of Sich: Kuban Cossacks hate speculations.. should be attributed. E.g. according to Mykhailo Hrushevsky The abolishment of the Zaporizhian Sich ...<ref>.... If a referenced information about persecution of cossacks is removed it is a vandalism-like event. I was not able to find such edits. Cossacks in the Literature and Arts is a great suggestion for a section or a daughter-article. Shevchenko, Gogol, Repin, Semen Hulak-Artemovsky: looks great. Alex Bakharev 13:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Here is the example of erased article with clear source:

"By evidence of other sources [4], the leading class (starshyna) of the Zaporizhian Host was brought to the trial and punished by Russian Government. The last Koshovyi Otaman Petro Kalnyshevsky was exiled to Solovki monastery, where he spent more than 26 years as a prisoner in small cell (1 X 2 m). Kalnyshevsky was only 3 times ayear allowed to quit his "stony bag" for open air and by the time of Emperor Alexander I pardon was already blind." Ans-mo 11:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Erased from Z.Host. Ans-mo 13:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes it was erased, for two reasons a) it is not relevant, b) there are source that contradict this passage. --Kuban Cossack 22:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Guys, I think this should be discussed at the article's talk. --Irpen 23:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Next several passages with source (not all are created by me) are erased by the same user from articles Zaporizhian Sich and Zaporizhian Host. Can be seen in the discussion pages of the mentioned articles.Ans-mo 06:28, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Khmelnytsky Uprising

This article is having a heated debate about the issue of Jewish casualties, recently showing signs of revert warring. Neutral comments and attempt to create a compromise version are very much needed before further escalation.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  07:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Transliteration problem

(why "problem"? rename it to "2007 Transliteration system for Ukrainian passport" or something like this :)
(Maybe because the system isn't that great? :-) I have to keep it like it is because of links on users' talk pages.)

The Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine has changed the official transliteration system for Ukrainian names. The new transliteration table, found here, is mentioned below. Please discuss what should be done about this here. The result of this discussion should and will be merged to the WP:UKR guideline. — Alex(U|C|E) 17:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

New system (2007)
А — A І — I Т — T
Б — B Ї — І У — U
В — V Й — І Ф — F
Г — G К — K Х — KH
Ґ — G Л — L Ц — TS
Д — D М — M Ч — CH
Е — E Н — N Ш — SH
Є — IE О — O Щ — SHCH
Ж — ZH П — P Ь — omitted
З — Z Р — R Ю — IU
И — Y С — S Я — IA
Previous system (2004)
А - A І - I Т - T
Б - B Ї - Yi, i У - U
В - V, W Й - Y, i Ф - F
Г - H, G К - K, C Х - KH
Ґ - G, H Л - L Ц - TS
Д - D М - M Ч - CH
Е - E Н - N Ш - SH
Є - Ye, ie О - O Щ - SHCH
Ж - ZH, J П - P Ь - '
З - Z Р - R Ю - Yu, iu
И - Y С - S Я - Ya, ia
This only affects transliteration for passports, correct? Will it change the official spelling of current Ukrainians' names, or only those who are issued new passports in the future?
Do you know if the other official system, for geographic names, remains in effect?[1] I think it should be added as another column in the article romanization of Ukrainian. Beyond that, I don't think it has any dramatic effect on romanization in Wikipedia, although it should be considered when the romanization guidelines are discussed or amended (WP:CYR. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 18:10 Z
Well, considering that the previous guideline for transliterating was almost (if not exactly) the same as WP:UKR, I really don't know. This is why I posted it here, to see what needs to be done about it. It is a fairly noticeable change (Yushchenko vs Iushchenko, Yanukovych vs Ianukovych). — Alex(U|C|E) 18:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I also decided to discuss it because I noticed that "shch" is used instead of "sch". "sch" is mentioned in the official transliteration which WP:UKR links to, and "shch" is mentioned in the old transliteration chart for passports. Just thought it was worthy of mention. — Alex(U|C|E) 18:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

As the one who wrote the guideline at WP:CYR#Ukrainian, I must say that it has needed revision for a long time. Unfortunately, the last few proposals for change led to an impasse in the discussion.
Geographic names should continue to follow the official Ukrainian geographic convention (the so-called National System), of course.
For other names, what WP:CYR says about ye/ie, ya/ia, and yu/iu in proper names was what seemed right to me at the time, but it corresponds to absolutely no established standards. Changing it to recommend BGN/PCGN names would make almost no perceptible change to current practice, but it would be adopting an established standard which is easy for English-speakers to understand, and it would simplify the guideline. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 18:32 Z
Bear in mind, however, that no matter what the Ukrainian government decides, the important thing to consider is whether the system is going to work for Anglophones. With Russian, for example, this is precisely the reason why we don't use (Russian) government-mandated GOST, but instead use a BGN/PCGN-based system, which is easier for Anglophones to comprehend. All in all, the bottom line should the convenience of our readers, not compliance with non-vital government regulations.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:34, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Very much agreed. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 18:46 Z
Nope. I don't want to go deeply into discussion, but for the record let me state my opinion. There are no doubts that we need to use a system, which is "the best" (best for Anglophones, best in handing over Ukrainian, best of the best). But could a "home-made" system be the best? User:Ezhiki is saying that their current Russian system is a BGN/PCGN-based system. In WP:UKR it's mentioned that the National system (1996) is a BGN/PCGN-based system. We all know that the differences between transliteration systems are minor, and any transliteration system can be named as BGN/PCGN-based system, if there is such desire.
So far, I've not seen any convincing argument in favor of an "non-standardized" system (I called them "home-made" systems). Standardized systems are supported by research and studies by established institutions (language institutes, universities, academy of science, ministry of education, ministry of culture, etc.) All arguments in favor of a "home-made" system are based around "I think it's the best". It's not based on any deep linguistic studies. The current Russian transliteration system is largely based on some early consensus, which is hard to overrule because transliteration systems by its nature (too many letters in alphabet, too many options for transliteration, as opposite to a binary choice) is one of the most arguable issues, in which almost everyone has a different set of preferences. It's good that for Ukrainian transliteration, so far, we stick to an established system. I think it would be encyclopedical to keep it that way (at least for now; until the time we get professional linguists among Wikipedia users, comparable in skills with those of the established institutions). --Novelbank 20:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
To clarify, I was not advocating use of a "home-made" system for Ukrainian. You are absolutely correct about WP:RUS being established based on a (much) earlier consensus and about it being hard to change now. What I was telling is that there is no need to jump the gun and immediately switch to some new system Ukrainian (or any other government) introduces; it is best to stick to what works best for our purposes, for purposes of building an English-language encyclopedia.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 02:01, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I hate the way transliteration change. We already has two different editions of transliteration for passports in the past - now we have different one (it's all on rada website). Can somebody create comparation table ? --TAG 18:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I've made an addition to romanization of Ukrainian, but the table there still has to be updated. Also, there appear to be at least three systems officially used recently: see hostmaster.net.ua. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 18:46 Z

Let's be more precise. The Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine established new transliteration rules for the sole purpose of transliteration of Ukrainain names in Ukrainian passport. The National transliteration system (1996) has wider scope as being binding for the transliteration of Ukrainian names in English in legislative and official acts. It would be interestiong to see whether the decision of the Cabinet of Ministers would have any effect on other areas outside of the narrow scope of Ukraininian passport. Will the president's name be changed to Iushchenko at the President's website? Will the names of Parliament members be changed to reflect the new transliteration rules at Parliament website? It's doubtful.

WP:UKR has been used for transliteration of modern geographic names, and as such the new transliteration rules for passport does not affect that.

Speaking of Ukrainian personal names, the issue is rather more uncertain. WP:UKR was rarely used for transliteration of personal names. Indeed as the policy claims that "most personal names have a conventional English spelling", and if so, that name should be used. I think, we should acknowledge that now there are yet another transliteration rules for personal names (regardless of whether we like them or not), add follow them for Ukrainian people without an established English name.

The modifications should be made to:

--Novelbank 18:50, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I personally don't like the new rules. :-) Well, I guess we'll see what changes, but I'm guessing it's Yatsenyuk's idea. Or should I say Iatseniuk? ;-) — Alex(U|C|E) 19:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
It is definitely not a Yatsenyuk idea, but rather an outcome of Internal Affairs Office (or Militia) efforts [2], which is responsible for issuing passports.Ans-mo 06:22, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone have a reference for the previous two versions of passport transliteration? —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 20:44 Z

Here is the link to the Regulation at the Rada website. The new Cabinet of Ministries decision amends the Regulation, but these amendments have not been incorporated into the text at that website, so as of now you can see there the previous version of the passport transliteration system. --Novelbank 21:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 21:27 Z


I've made an initial proposal for a summary of official Ukrainian romanization systems at talk:Romanization of Ukrainian#Different Ukrainian national systems. Please comment there for the purposes of adding material to that article.

I've also made a table there, comparing all of the official systems. —Michael Z. 2007-07-03 23:05 Z

I don't know why they keep changing it. It just confuses people. Kind of like Kiev-Kyiv. I mean seriously, the City was named Kiev for hundreds of years, so why change it all of a sudden. Same goes for Kharkov-Kharkiv, among other similar issues. But, yaeh, put the new info in, this is a NEUTRAL encyclopedia after all, and it DOES need to be up to date. --SergeiXXX 07:01, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I do not think that Wikipedia should necessarily adopt this new convention for transliterating the names. Instead, a standard method for transliterating all Ukrainian (Cyrillic) words should be adopted -- Something along the lines of the scientific transliteration would be good. Any other transliteration methods can be mentioned in the table or given in the text. I have seen a wide variety of different methods of transliterating names originally written in Cyrillic. Yet another system, which is different in form from the geographical system, is quite unnecessary. This will only obfuscate the relationships between the Cyrillic and Latin alphabets and the meaning of the words. Every article containing "Андрій" does not need an explanation on the difficulties in transliterating/translating the name: Should it be Andri, Andrij, Andriy, or Andrew? (e.g. Andriy Shevchenko) Woollymammoth 21:53, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Just a FYI. Based on fact that "Андрій" is my name and I've incorrectly transliterated it before I've got my international passport as Andrew, but in passport it was Andriy - we should try to find official source - i.e. name of person in official records. --TAG 23:10, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, the new transliteration system might affect how people are referred to in official records. There shouldn't be a double standard in a government, so I think they'll gradually switch over to the new way of transliterating names, changing official records. — Alex(U|C|E) 23:16, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
When I was receiving a Ukrainian international passport I stated that I want my name to be spelled in a passport in a certain way, and it was fulfilled. (Actually, nothing special, all I wanted was to get the same spelling as it was in my previous documents). And it’s not just me. The law says: На письмове прохання громадянина написання прізвища та імені латинськими літерами може бути виконано відповідно до їх написання у документах, виданих відповідними органами іноземної держави.[3] (In my case I was not asked to provide any supporting documents for my preferred spelling.) Therefore, I don't think the new transliteration rules for passport would have so significant effect. I actually support the part of the law, which allows the customized English spelling. It's not about double standards in a government. No need to restrict the freedom of choosing a name (or spelling of that name). The official records should merely reflect people's choice. If Кличко Володимир Володимирович wants to be Wladimir Klitschko, so be it. (Geographic names are more difficult. Residents prefer to name their city as Kyiv, Kyyiv, Kiev; foreigners keep using Kiev, Kiew, Kijow, etc., etc. But that's another story.) --Novelbank 05:22, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
The geographic names are actually a lot easier than personal names. That same BGN/PCGN system previously discussed on a number of occasions was devised to deal specifically with geographic names. Quite a few maps from major publishers use it and it's the most convenient to Anglophones. No need to re-invent the wheel there. Not so with personal names. Of course, in cases such as Володимир Кличко wanting to be "Wladimir Klitschko", it's quite easy—all that needs to be done is to show that it's indeed his personal preference or that's how his name is spelled in official documents. Unfortunately, it's not quite as easy for most of other people, many of whom don't really care how their names are spelled in English and who are referred to by different spellings in different sources. This is where having an established guideline (home-brewed or arbitraly chosen from a set of existing ones) is of enormous help—it helps standardize the names within the project, makes maintenance easier, and prevents silly edit wars over "the most correct" spellings backed with nothing more than marginal google counts. The tough part, of course, is to determine which system would work best for this purpose and reach a consensus. Once a consensus is reached, the system would be used in all cases by default but would still permit an alternate spelling if reliable sources exist to back it up.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:08, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I personally like Woollymammoth's idea of a slightly modified version of scholarly transliteration. I guess we can set up a vote to decide what the best way is. If we were to go with scholarly transliteration, though, my suggestion would be as follows:

Latin Cyrillic Latin Cyrillic Latin Cyrillic
Aa Аа Jj Йй Śś Сьсь
Bb Бб Kk Кк Šš Шш
Cc Цц Ll Лл Tt Тт
Ćć Цьць Ľľ Льль Ťť Тьть
Čč Чч Mm Мм Uu Уу
Dd Дд Nn Нн Vv Вв
Ďď Дьдь Ńń Ньнь Xx Хх
Ee Ее Oo Оо Yy Ии
Ff Фф Pp Пп Zz Зз
Gg Ґґ Rr Рр Źź Зьзь
Hh Гг Ŕŕ Рьрь Žž Жж
Ii Іі Ss Сс

Very similar to the scholarly transliteration, except it accounts for things like "ся" (śa) and "тя" (ťa). There's one problem with it, though. I can't think of a way to represent the soft "в" sound (example: "свято") and the soft "ж" sound (example: "Запоріжжя"). Just a suggestion, but it would be nice to hear what people think. — Alex(U|C|E) 19:51, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Come on. Could you provide any evidence that indicate the usage of your "very similar to the scholarly transliteration"? Do you think humans were blind about the truly best Ukrainian-English transliteration, and you are about to make a break-through in the linguistic science? If you do think that your proposed transliteration is indeed valuable, why don't you submit it to a reputable linguistic journal for publishing? --Novelbank 22:29, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
As I said above, it was just as suggestion. There is absolutely no need to attack me over it, just say that you don't like it and that's it. Please read WP:NPA and WP:AGF for more information. — Alex(U|C|E) 22:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
In fact, I have seen this system used in Slovakia to write primarily Ukrainian songs. There is an example of such a song showing some Ukrainian traits (i from the jat'):
Ty priznajsja meni, zvidky v tebe ty čari,
ja bez tebe vsi dny, u poloňi pečali.
Može des u lisach, ty čar zilja šukala,
sonce rutu znajšla, i mene včaruvala..
The source for this song is http://projekty.infovek.sk/pesnicky/ . I wonder if Rusyn, which is spoken in Eastern Slovakia, can be written using this alphabet. If so, this version should be adopted on the lines of the Serbian/Croatian alphabet dichotomy. I hope this clarifies the situation. Woollymammoth 16:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Dynamo Kyiv


Featured pic nom

Ukrainian Ground Forces Structure

For anyone who is interested/is somewhat informed on the subject, please the discussion on the structure of the Ukrainian army here, User talk:Ceriy#Ukrainian Ground Forces 2. Regards, Bogdan 16:13, 4 November 2007 (UTC).


Nachtigall Battalion

Article needs to be rewritten, otherwise it violates copyright because it is taken almost word for word from the Holocaust encyclopedia published by the Wiesental centre http://motlc.learningcenter.wiesenthal.org/text/x16/xm1688.html . Bandurist 12:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Is this obvious sockpuppetry or what?

Take a look at the newest member of the Ukrainian wikiproject. User:Pazan.ua. this is his first edit on wikipedia. Why did user:Mona23653 make a user page for a someone without a single edit? Secondly, User:Pazan.ua has yet to make a single content edit, but he has joined 3 wikiprojects, what?!? A more than obvious sock puppet of Mona23653. Could someone please deal with this. Regards, Bogdan 05:11, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Serhiy Yefremov

Prometheism article mentions the 1930 trial of Serhiy Yefremov in USSR. I wonder if uk wiki has an article on him that could be translated? A quick google search indicates he is a notable and interesting figure.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 17:19, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

URGENT ANNOUNCEMENT

Metalurh Zaporizhia

User:DDima for admin

Kharkiv or Kharkov

See commons:User talk:EugeneZelenko#Kharkiv_vs._Kharkov.

Milena Markovna Kunis or Milena Markivna Kunis

This is not that important but simulair to Kharkiv or Kharkov I guess! On Mila Kunis page (actress born in Kyiv). They say her name is Milena Markovna Kunis But even my (female) friend from Crimea uses the Ukrainian version of her Patronymic (Milena Markivna Kunis, (that is not my friends name ofcourse)). I mentioned it on the talk page of the article but nobody responds on the talk page of the article. Can I change it too Milena Markivna Kunis? Russian versions of Ukrainian names irritate me :-) Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:03, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

It is nice that you ask, but especially after you bring something up on a talk page, and there is no response, and you feel that there is good reason to make whatever the change may be: WP:BE BOLD.--Riurik(discuss) 18:48, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
She is Jewish so I thought that mabey they have different rules for there Patronymic's, I'm Dutch so don't know all the details of Ukraine and didn't want to be reckless... Thanks and: Good luck to Dinamo Kyiv! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 18:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I guess it depends on Ms. Kunis herself. It may as well be -ovna, rather than -ivna.--Riurik(discuss) 19:06, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
The Ukrainian translation of her name say's Markivna.... so in order to keep things balanced so should the latin alphabet version of her name, right? PS after the 3rd season that 70's show went downhil fast... Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
According to this interview on youtube [[4]] where she try's to make us believe that Russia and Ukraine are one country (?)Stalin would be proud of her...) and in another interview on youtube [[5]] she only mentions Russia.... so it must be -ovna then. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 01:43, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

talk:SS Admiral Nakhimov

Can anybody confirm or deny that this ship had a serious accident in 1974 ? Mieciu K (talk) 21:28, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Too many High-importance Ukraine articles

I tried to be helpful so I tried to edit some Category:High-importance Ukraine articles but then I saw there where about 400 of them. I mean, how can Razom Nas Bahato, Nas Ne Podolaty still be High-importance? Should we have a system based on internethits and not based on personal views to place articles in the Category:High-importance Ukraine articles? Mariah-Yulia (talk) 21:21, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Totally agree. I hesitated to downgrade article's importance in order to not touch the editors' sensitivities as having one own article graded low or mid-level of importance may be unpleasant to some. But I think mature editors can easily handle that (I do) and if there are no objections, we should do some downgrading.
On a separate note, please do not take example of some of our neighbors and use this board to post messages that can easily be construed as divisive and inflammatory. I am removing such section from here by this edit. The proposed box also contradicts the spirit and the letter of the userpsace policy which specifically calls for avoiding any sort of political campaigning, especially the divisive one, in the userspace. --Irpen 03:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

No Ukrainian National Merit Barnstar?

The impressive list at here nonetheless has no Ukrainian barnstar. We should rectify this ASAP! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 05:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

There is. Thanks for your interest to this matter. --Irpen 05:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. We need to add it to the Commons page, based on the few 'what links here' it seems mostly forgotten.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 05:51, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Done! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
This award is not "forgotten". It's just that there is more than one Ukraine-specific award. You can view several at the page of DDima, a very decorated Ukrainian editor, as well as talk pages and archives of other editors. There are plenty Ukraine-specific Wikipedia awards given by Riurik too that you can find from his contributions. --Irpen 08:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I placed (some of the Ukrainian Awards) at the portal so there easy to find! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:22, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Names

I realize this has probably already been discussed, but why do all the Kyiv metro articles have Russian in them? Could someone tell me? Ostap 05:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Ostap, you can see the whole discussion at Talk:Podilsko-Voskresenska Line. —dima/talk/ 18:24, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm from Western Europe so might not understand anything about Ukraine :) but I seriously do not understand what the constant fuss about Russian names being used in Ukrainian articles is al about... I do understand that various Russian rulers tried to wipe out the Ukrainian language (of course that was evil!), but to start removing Russian in Ukrainian articles can not lead to any good... in fact I think it will only lead to Russian Wikipidians rewriting Wikipedia in a way that it looks there culture in Ukraine is under attack (see Racism in Ukraine...) and the we have to start rewriting what they wrote... and then we get into all sorts of discussions on Talk pages etc. etc. etc. I assume good faith of Ostap but I think it's better to keep the Russian names to avoid trouble (it would be different if the Ukrainian names would be removed from the articles of course!). On another note: if I understand right 60% of Kyiv speaks Russian, so they probably use the Russian names anyhow. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 20:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

"The total number of languages in the world is between 5,000 and 10,000", lets just put every language possible in Ukrainian articles. Try putting in Polish, I'm sure that will go over well. Ostap 04:27, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

WP:POINTy arguments won't get you far. --Irpen 05:10, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Russian-Ukrainian relations article

Why is there no Russian-Ukrainian relations? Seems most interesting for foreigners. Or did there used to be one and did that one got lost in a edit-war? Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

It will get if it gets started. It would either be devoid of content, like current "pl-ua relations" article or it would get useless because of edit warring. --Irpen 22:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid your right. I'm gonna play Why Can't We Live Together by Timmy Thomas now. Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:11, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Are you talking about Russian-Ukrainian relations or Russia-Ukraine relations? These are two different topics. --Greggerr (talk) 15:39, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I mean the relations between the states/country's, not the people (so Russia-Ukraine relations it is). Mariah-Yulia (talk) 19:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

NATO-Ukrainian relations article

Is a NATO-Ukrainian relations article a bad idea? Mariah-Yulia (talk) 23:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Isn't this Ukraine-NATO wiki-battlefield enough? Certainly such article can be created but it would have to be baby seated like some of the articles you know already. I won't have patience. --Irpen 23:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Georgia and NATO looks fine, as well as Ukraine and the European Union. Mariah-Yulia, do need some kind of support? :) Go ahead and write whatever you think is missing! --Greggerr (talk) 15:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Do try to use a published book or another reputable secondary source instead of internet news articles. --Riurik(discuss) 19:39, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Zapor

We have a ZAZ, AvtoZAZ, Zaporozhets and individual model articles such as ZAZ Tavria. Does anyone see a problem here? --Kuban Cossack 18:02, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The finest car ever made deserves to be written about in such detail.--Riurik(discuss) 20:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
But surely it would make more sense to re-group the articles by model numbers. I mean there is no separate Zhiguli article, all the models are collectively explained under AvtoVAZ. Though I agree there is no universal order there as well, but at least we have VAZ-2101 not kopeyka! As for finest it has to be this I have one!
No I am serious, have a look at how Mercedes is done: e.g. the famous chemodan (also known as Shestisoty which I also have btw) and the template at the bottom showing the production chronology etc. Should we not create something similar? --Kuban Cossack 13:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, regrouping them under some logical order should be done.--Riurik(discuss) 17:26, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Deleting Ukrainian Revolution of 1918 once and for all

The article on Makhnovism has been once again forked under the title Ukrainian Revolution of 1918. Removing the fork is not a problem, but I've initiated a formal AfD, so this title can be speedy deleted in the future. Please register your affirmation or denial at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ukrainian Revolution of 1918.

Khrystos Voskres. —Michael Z. 2008-04-29 21:32 Z

Film editors wanted

WikiProject Films has solicited interest in creating a Soviet/CIS cinema task force. We'd like to cordially welcome all regular editors of these articles to voice their interest in starting this task force so as to see if there is sufficient support. Many thanks! Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 02:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Paleoconservatism

This article says that Ukraine is a base of the paleoconservative movement. Is this true? Ostap 23:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Is it verifiable with a credible source?--Riurik(discuss) 01:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
It was suddenly added here with no source. Ostap 07:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Looks like more of fiction writing. I removed all country designations, unless substantiated with credible sources.--Riurik(discuss) 19:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Template question

I would like to move Ukrainian diaspora articles from {{Ukrainians}} and create separate {{Ukrainian diaspora}} template similar to {{Polish diaspora}} template. What do you think? It seems to me it is a standard to group similar ethnic group articles by the navigation box at the bottom. - Darwinek (talk) 10:51, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

That's interesting. It makes sense. I don't have objections or comments to it, but maybe others?--Riurik(discuss) 04:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Done. - Darwinek (talk) 17:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Ukrainians of Brazil article help

I'm repeating a message I left for Bandurist. Awhile ago I created an article about Ukrainians of Brazil. Since then someone has added a list prominent "Ukrainians", almost all of whom were actually non-Ukrainians. Because this detracted from the article I had those people removed. This prompting an edit war, smears of me being a Nazi, etc. because apparently some Brazilian editors feel that every single person born in Ukraine must be a Ukrainian and it is racist to state otherwise. I provided examples of other non-Ukrainians from Ukraine such as Ukrainian-born Trotsky or Mikhail Bulgakov to no avail. This may not be something that is your specialty, but perhaps another Eastern-European voice would be helpful? Thanks... Faustian 04:37, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Third faction in the Soviet invasion of Poland (1939) article?

I have read about withdrawing Polish units in 1939 being ambushed by Ukrainian insurgents (possibly Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists) does anybody know how widespread and notable those attacks were? Should we add OUN to the Soviet invasion of Poland (1939) Military Conflict Infobox?

If you have any comments or suggestions please reply on the Portal talk:Poland/Poland-related Wikipedia notice board where this topic was started. Mieciu K (talk) 10:01, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Great Patriotic War

It seems a great deal of Soviet and Soviet Ukrainian articles use this term. What is the wikipedia policy? Should we be using this or the English terms "World War II" or "Second World War"? Ostap 06:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I think we should use the English term "World War II". It's used all over the world in contrast to the Soviet term. And "The Great Patriotic War" only covers 1941 to 1945. Narking (talk) 10:54, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Well World War II is a wide global conflict, whilst GPW (VOV) is a more narrow term specific to what happened on the Ukraine. --Kuban Cossack 10:57, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
GPW is a Soviet terminology, it is used very rarely in the English-language literature. I guess the sources per WP:V should dictate what terminology to use: if they stress it was the GPW, then so be it - otherwise it is the Second World War like everywhere else. --Hillock65 (talk) 14:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, the Great Patriotic War is a term hardly known outside Soviet. And remember that Ukraine was affected by the war already in 1939. Narking (talk) 16:41, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Classiciations of articles

Seriously have a look at some of the Top-importance articles How can Borsht and Veliky Novgorod (one might wonder if it even belongs in the cats) hold the same top importance as History of Ukraine and Zaporozhian Cossacks? --Kuban Cossack 11:13, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Soviet and post-Soviet films task force

Just thought that the community would like to know that WikiProject Films has a established a Soviet and post-Soviet cinema task force. Interested editors are encouraged to join onboard! Thanks, Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 21:41, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Zaporizhian Sich Article

Article Zaporizhian Sich is declared within the scope of the Russian History WikiProject (see discussion page). Why dont make it a part of the Ukrainian Project, which seems to be more natural? Articles on Zaporozhean Cossaks in general contain too many official Russian history propaganda. Ans-mo 12:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Articles can be within the scope of many WikiProjects which apply. Feel free to add {{WikiProject Ukraine|class=|importance=}} and rate the article on its class and importance.. —dima/talk/ 21:05, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Geographical Names in English Wikipedia. Useful reference =

There are many editing wars going on as to spelling Ukrainian geographic names, mostly due to some Russian Wikipedians that try to get their way even though it is wrong. But, anyway, I would like you to verify spelling of Ukrainian geographical places with the United States Board on Geographic Names (aka US BGN) (http://gnswww.nga.mil/geonames/GNS/index.jsp). I want to emphasize that the U.S. Board on Geographic Names governs how geographic names must be spelled in official documents in the U.S. This should help you solve many editing wars. Solarapex 01:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

AIDS Epidemic

It is very well known that this decease is a problem in Ukraine, but is it really getting worse? I've read an article recently that states quite the contrary. See Engilsh version here. Regards, Bogdan що? 02:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Ukrainian Church in Lourdes

I created a new subsection on the Ukrainian Church in Lourdes in the article Lourdes. Any help in expanding it would be appreciated--Orestek (talk) 05:27, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Folklore Expert Needed

I have added Where Have All the Flowers Gone? (song) and And Quiet Flows the Don (novel) to this WikiProject. The song is said to be based on a traditional Ukrainian folk song, mentioned in the novel. I would appreciate it if this can be verified. Links to the song text, with an English translation, would be very helpful, and an addition to the article on the song. I started a Ukrainian folk song category, in case anyone wants to expand on that. Pustelnik 01:33, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I have read that as well, but I doubt it. It may be a furfy. It seems that Canadian Country and Western stars Mickey and Bunny and the Drifter's V translated the song into Ukrainian and sang itt that way. They did the same with the Beatle's tunes and songs like "This is made for you and me" and"You are my sunshine" which ;later became a hit for the marenych trio. Bandurist (talk) 00:00, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Hutsul Regiment

Hi everyone! I know this was a Polish Army regiment, but as it consisted mostly of Hutsuls, I thought you would be interested. Obviously, help is appreciated. I have read some opinions that it was the best regiment of the Polish Army in September 1939. So check out 49th Hutsul Rifle Regiment Tymek (talk) 20:39, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds interesting. I'll copy this to the announcements page as well.--Riurik(discuss) 06:52, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Translation request

Can someone go to the link here: Portal_talk:Scouting/Scouting_news#Why? and translate the Ukrainian news article so we can put it in Portal:Scouting News section? We'd at least need enough for the news link. — Rlevse • Talk • 19:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Ukrainian Wikitravel

Hey. I've started a Ukrainian Wikitravel Expedition for creating a Ukrainian version of Wikitravel. If anyone is interested please write at my discussion page or just register at Wikitravel Shared and sign your name at the Language Expedition page. K r i s t o f talk 15:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Напольный Гетман это Иван Краснощёков - легендарнейший герой Донской Армии

Напольный Гетман – это легендарный герой Донского Казачества-Иван Матвеевич Краснощёков. Наберите в поиске ,,казаки бригадира Краснощёкова,, и вы откроете десятки и десятки исторических фактов о мужестве и беспредельной храбрости этого человека ,,с лицом сплошь покрытым шрамами от сражений,, Эта фраза взята мною из одного из многих описаний этого знаменитого портрета, шедевра русской живописи. не уступающего по мастерству выполнения лучшим картинам Рембранта. А теперь откройте портрет казацкого атамана Фёдора Краснощёкова. Портрет атамана Федора Ивановича Краснощекова. 1761 А. Антропов Ф.И. Краснощеков (?—1764) — походный атаман казачьих полков, сын знамени- того донского героя, устрашавшего врагов своей отвагой, „диким видом" и лицом, сплошь покрытым шрамами. Ф.И. Краснощеков и сам просла вился... Видите что эдесь написано. Я не могу сейчас точно сказать и установить когда и кто убрал фамилию Краснощёков с портрета. Эта табличка висела под портретом ,,Напольный Гетман Краснощёков,, где то до 63 года.Её изменили с приходом Брежнева. Кстати корнями предков Брежнев из тех демократов о которых Тальков спел. Если вы спросите настоящих исскуствоведов, родившихся до войны, они подтвердят это. Я имею очень много информации для тех историков, которые гадают кто же изображён на портете, чтобы наконец прояснить кто же этот ,,мужественный воин в шрамах,, изображённый на портрете. Полуботок не был былинным Донским героем и стал гетманом лишь в 1722 году и Никитин не мог писать его портрет в 1720 году. А другого такого легендарного и былинного героя в Донской Армии как И.М. Краснощёков в то время не БЫЛО. Но самое главное – что ни у кого кому сейчас приписывают этот портрет не было никаких шрамов на лице. Какие то идиоты на Американских сайтах приписывают этот портрет Мазепе. Который сбежал ещё в 1709 году. 11 лет до написания портрета. Маразм просто. Смотрите на портрет. Это большие шрамы от сабельных ударов на мужественном лице Ивана Матвеевича Краснощёкова - Первого официального Донского бригадира (генерала) Я могу выслать вам фотографию моей дочери и вы увидите совершенно одинаковую антропологию строения лица, как будто это его дочь. А ведь это 300 лет резницы во времени. С уважением, А.Н. Краснощёков, США, пра----внук (email redacted by Irpen) 22:08, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Transliteration standards

Our Ukrainian transliteration standards have been non-standard for too long. They consist of a note at WP:NAME which I wrote[6] and revised[7] in an attempt to sum up and justify the prevailing use on Wikipedia in 2004–07 (which was mostly a mix of British and LOC systems), another at WP:CYR where I tried to expand on the first, and another proposal, which appears to be a detailed reiteration of the portion pertaining to geographic names.

This is still not too bad, but it is redundant, non-standardized, and has transliteration advice in a place where it has been repeatedly misapprehended as an article naming guideline. I've tried to propose improvements to the text several times, but this has always bogged down into a lengthy discussion comparing the merits of various systems.

I'm going to take the initiative by amalgamating and rewriting the current consensus guidelines in one place so that they recommend the actual standards, instead of something “kinda like the actual standards.” I'm going to do this in the next two days.

Prosymo ne panikuvaty! (Don't panic!) I am not proposing any changes to transliteration practice, only rewriting the text. Important proper names will continue to be spelled by their conventional form. The only effect this will have is to clarify and improve consistency. Thanks for bearing with me. —Michael Z. 2008-10-22 00:49 z

I've updated the guideline at WP:UKR. —Michael Z. 2008-10-24 22:24 z

Problems_with_Khmelnytsky_Uprising_category_on_Commons

Please see Portal_talk:Poland/Poland-related_Wikipedia_notice_board#Problems_with_Khmelnytsky_Uprising_category_on_Commons.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 14:21, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

New article Russian annexation of Eastern Galicia, 1914-1915

Written by me.Faustian (talk) 05:34, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

New article Western Ukrainian Clergy

Written by me.Faustian (talk) 15:20, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Good Article Review

The article on Mykola Leontovych is currently going through GA review.

Please comment on the requested move for Pripyat

I have suggested the page for Prypiat (in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone) be moved to Pripyat.

Though normally I would prefer place-names use Ukrainian spellings and transliteration, for Pripyat I think that WP:COMMONNAME supersedes in this particular case. The discussion is here:

Talk:Prypiat#RFM to Pripyat (with better justification & references) --Cooper42(Talk)(Contr) 20:03, 22 December 2012 (UTC)


Help wanted on Criminal cases against Yulia Tymoshenko since 2010

The Wikipedia article Criminal cases against Yulia Tymoshenko since 2010 would benefit greatly with more editors being involved in its editing! (Right now I am the only one and that is hindering the article; more viewpoints are needed!) Some suggestions on how to improve the article can be found here. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:48, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Good news on sourcing

As I accidentally found out:

Seeking Ukrainian expertise

How do you decide if we can categorize a historical individual as a "Ukrainian XXXX"? It's a great question that I'd like to see some input from members of this WikiProject. Please see the discussion at Talk:Petro Prokopovych. Good Ol’factory (talk) 15:54, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Discussion is underway. Ukrained2012 (talk) 02:41, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Deletion of pictures of Ukrainian buildings

It seems like a joke but sadly I guess it's not. [8] This can mean it will be impossible to have pictures of modern Ukrainian buildings. Närking (talk) 20:43, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

The madness goes on at Wikimedia. [9]. Närking (talk) 18:21, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
And the deletion mania goes on and on... Will there be any pictures left from Ukraine? [10] Närking (talk) 11:59, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I am afraid that until they change the laws in Ukraine... "Normal Wikipedia" is not so strict as "Wikipedia Commons". (Just a casual observation...) — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:09, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Name this hat (on T. Shevchenko)

What is this hat called?

In this famous picture of Taras Shevchenko, which I keep seeing everywhere Ukrainians congregate, what is this hat called uk:Кучма (шапка)?, and it is a significant enough part of Ukrainian national costume to warrant an article. Or perhaps it should be mentioned as a variation of a Busby / Karakul / Papakha or Kubanka? --Kevlar (talk • contribs) 17:49, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Ukraine/Ukraine-related_Wikipedia_notice_board/Archive_4&oldid=1181468613"