Talk:1951 Swiss Grand Prix
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Gordini entries[edit]
Sources disagree over which drivers were entered in the #46 and #48 Gordinis (which did not appear and were withdrawn before the race):
- oldracingcars.com and Paul Sheldon and Duncan Rabagliati's A Record of Grand Prix and Voiturette Racing Vol 5 show Maurice Trintignant entered in #46 and Robert Manzon entered in #48.
- ManipeF1 shows Francis Rochat entered in #46 and Trintignant in #48
- StatsF1 and f-1.link show Rochat entered in #46 and both Manzon and Trintignant entered in #48.
- ChicaneF1 and FORIX omit numbers #46 and #48 from their entry lists altogether.
Normally I would consider oldracingcars.com and Sheldon/Rabagliati to be the most reliable sources, but there seems to be significant evidence for Rochat being entered in #46 - apart from ManipeF1, StatsF1 and f-1.link mentioned above, he's also mentioned at this GP Rejects page. Of course, this could be a case of sources copying incorrect information from each other. I'll keep looking for more sources. DH85868993 (talk) 10:34, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
- I can't find any contemporary race reports that mention the Gordini team even being entered, and the fairly comprehensive account of the Gordini team given in Roy Smith's Amedee Gordini: A True Racing Legend also says nothing of a Swiss GP entry in 1951, nor does it mention Rochat anywhere. The ORC data is likely to have been drawn from A Record of Grand Prix and Voiturette Racing Volume 5, but was likely augmented by information from Les Gordini by Robert Jarraud, and Gordini: Un Sorcier, Une Equipe by Christian Huet. Unfortunately, I don't have access here to any of these three. Pyrope 16:57, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for the additional info. I'll keep digging. DH85868993 (talk) 11:44, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but perhaps not. Prior to the late 1960s things weren't as organized as all that and hard records can be almost non-existent. There looks to have been a list printed in the event program, but unless we know someone who has a copy that's quite hard to check. Doubtless the ORC listing was drawn from somewhere – the specificity of the data is too precise and the reputation of the site too good to believe it is pure guesswork – but they aren't explicit as to what source they are using, and that source would itself likely be reporting a different first-hand source. If you have a copy, or live near a library that has a copy, of any of the three books I mention above then checking those would be a first step, but I don't hold out hope of there being an additional electronic source anywhere. Pyrope 22:31, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
- Has someone looked as Small's Grand Prix Who's Who yet? I'm not quite sure at the moment if it features starting numbers, but I'll check once I'm back from work. Unfortunately, Motor Sport Magazine only printed very short results and no entry list... Zwerg Nase (talk) 10:13, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
- To answer my own question, yes, Small's book features starting numbers, but all drivers mentioned above are not listed as having been represented at all at the 1951 Swiss GP. Zwerg Nase (talk) 18:27, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but perhaps not. Prior to the late 1960s things weren't as organized as all that and hard records can be almost non-existent. There looks to have been a list printed in the event program, but unless we know someone who has a copy that's quite hard to check. Doubtless the ORC listing was drawn from somewhere – the specificity of the data is too precise and the reputation of the site too good to believe it is pure guesswork – but they aren't explicit as to what source they are using, and that source would itself likely be reporting a different first-hand source. If you have a copy, or live near a library that has a copy, of any of the three books I mention above then checking those would be a first step, but I don't hold out hope of there being an additional electronic source anywhere. Pyrope 22:31, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
