Talk:1968 European Cup final/GA1
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Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 10:14, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
Comments
- The "n.a."s in the fair use programme image need to be addressed. I'd be surprised if this really meets the spirit of fair use anyway, I don't see how the programme cover enhances our reader's understanding of the article, the programme itself is not even mentioned in the prose.
- There's a link for two-legged tie I think.
- You could link generic European Cup in the lead.
- Link all the football jargon, so header, penalty, free kick, etc.
- "a major club" I think it's best to stick with just "club" and perhaps find something that says it's considered the premier club competition (as you have in the lead).
- "Until the 1990s, only the league champion from each country qualified.[1] The competition was first played in 1955–56." feels like the wrong way round.
- " Until the 1990s, only the league champion from each..." you then go on to prove this wasn't true for the first tournament.
- Be consistent with your capitalisation of Final when saying "European Cup final/Final" as it differs across the article.
- Done. Harrias talk 18:39, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I don't think this was necessary. Whether or not "final" is a proper noun depends on the context, so you can't say it needs to be one or the other all the way through without looking at how it's used each time. – PeeJay 19:05, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Asking for consistency doesn't imply one should ignore context. Obviously. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 19:27, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- I don't think this was necessary. Whether or not "final" is a proper noun depends on the context, so you can't say it needs to be one or the other all the way through without looking at how it's used each time. – PeeJay 19:05, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Done. Harrias talk 18:39, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- "They defended... They were losing..." in each case you've lost who "they" were because you mention another club in between.
- "in each of 1956–57 and 1957–58.[4]" missing a word, like "tournaments" perhaps?
- Not sure what relevance Munich has to this article.
- Link UEFA when you use it on its own.
- "the English Football Association" just "The Football Association" will do, there is after all only one "The Football Association".
- "but were subsequently eliminated in the semi-final" no need for subsequently.
- Shame the table columns aren't the same in each Route to the final section.
- Eusébio is overlinked.
- "once again thanks to" not really encyclopedic in tone.
- "the second leg.[15] In the second leg" repetitive.
- " The Guardian said" who in the Guardian?
- "and booked them" perhaps "secured" rather than booked for tone.
- "got two goals each" scored rather than got?
- The Guardian is overlinked.
- "a "sad succession of near misses"" according to whom?
- "Manchester United were expected to beat them" ditto.
- " narrowly avoided going behind in the 27th minute" any more detail than the minute?
- "had to go off injured," worth a footnote here explaining that substitutions were disallowed, because most readers will be like, "well wut? Bring on another player".
- I'm really struggling to find a source for this one. Harrias talk 11:06, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- Alright, it would have been nice, but hey, certainly not part of the GA criteria. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:19, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
- I'm really struggling to find a source for this one. Harrias talk 11:06, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- "back-heeled the ball into the goal after a shot from Jimmy Ryan" was it after Ryan's shot was saved or because Ryan's shot ended up at his feet?
- Rephrased to "In the dying minutes of the game, Jimmy Ryan shot into a melee of players in the penalty area, including Brian Kidd, who backheeled the ball into the goal to make it 2–0.", how is that? Harrias talk 11:06, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- Real Madrid is overlinked.
- "only a goal " perhaps "a single goal" to avoid that POV "only".
- "In The Guardian, Albert " Guardian overlinked again.
- Hugh McIlvanney has an article.
- "newspaper A Bola concurred" not sure they concurred, the previous sentence slates the Man Utd team but A Bola said they were the last team they wanted to face...
- Denis Law is overlinked.
- Might want to link Surrey as this is a geographically "agnostic" article.
- Especially as you link Harlow.
- " the 30,000 Manchester United asked for." -> " the 30,000 for which Manchester United asked."
- "standing tickets originally priced at 10 shillings were selling for £7" link shilling and presumably these were by touts? That's not clear.
- Linked, and added "on the black market" to reflect the source. Harrias talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- No need to link London.
- "estimated television audience of 250 million" where/who broadcast?
- "10 yards from " usually convert.
- Not that WP:OTHERSTUFF is a good argument, but 1981 UEFA Cup Final doesn't. Harrias talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- " high over the bar, before he hit the crossbar" bar/crossbar repeat.
- And shot/shot in that sentence too.
- "José Augusto and José Torres " both overlinked.
- "two dangerous chances" dangerous is POV.
- What is referencing the 4-3-3 for each team?
- @PeeJay2K3: Looking through the history of the article, it looks like you set the positions based on the DVD. Newspaper sources seem to differ: the only one that explicitly includes formations agrees that United played a 4-3-3, but lists Benfica as playing a 4-2-4. Do you have anything we can use as a reliable source for a Benfica 4-3-3? Harrias talk 08:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
- Going to chime in here. The marvellous Jonathan Wilson in his book, The Anatomy of Manchester United, states that Benfica lined up in a 4-3-3. He's not as forthright on the formation United adopted, suggesting the intention was to match it but that they differed from that plan. See here Hope this helps somewhat. NapHit (talk) 11:39, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
- I've actually found that transfermarkt has them, so have added that. Harrias talk 11:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- Harrias Is transfermarkt.com now considered a WP:RS? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:10, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- Ah, I see now that it is user generated; I missed that when I first looked it over. My bad. (I knew it looked too good to be true.) Harrias talk 13:21, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- @The Rambling Man: How about the Irish Daily Mirror? Harrias talk 13:47, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- It's not ideal but at the very least the Mirror is usually quite reliable for sports, and I don't find it on the verboten list at WP:RS/N and it's not quite "sky is blue" territory but close, so all told it's okay with me. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:15, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
- @The Rambling Man: How about the Irish Daily Mirror? Harrias talk 13:47, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- Ah, I see now that it is user generated; I missed that when I first looked it over. My bad. (I knew it looked too good to be true.) Harrias talk 13:21, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- Harrias Is transfermarkt.com now considered a WP:RS? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:10, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- I've actually found that transfermarkt has them, so have added that. Harrias talk 11:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- Going to chime in here. The marvellous Jonathan Wilson in his book, The Anatomy of Manchester United, states that Benfica lined up in a 4-3-3. He's not as forthright on the formation United adopted, suggesting the intention was to match it but that they differed from that plan. See here Hope this helps somewhat. NapHit (talk) 11:39, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
- @PeeJay2K3: Looking through the history of the article, it looks like you set the positions based on the DVD. Newspaper sources seem to differ: the only one that explicitly includes formations agrees that United played a 4-3-3, but lists Benfica as playing a 4-2-4. Do you have anything we can use as a reliable source for a Benfica 4-3-3? Harrias talk 08:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
- I think the referee should be mentioned in the prose.
- MOSFLAG, not sure they're doing much here, and in any case, they should explain what they mean on first use.
- Ditto with 1981 UEFA Cup Final: I'd love to replace them with {{flagathlete}} but whenever I have tried on these articles, it just gets reverted. Harrias talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- Where are linesmen referenced?
- No need to link Italy. Twice.
- It was actually an easter egg link to Italian Football Federation, removed. Still there for the referee. Twice. Harrias talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- European Cup, Charlton and Foulkes are overlinked.
- "just a year after" remove "just".
- " captain Bobby Charlton and Bill Foulkes were the only survivors of the crash to play in the 1968 final." to be fair, it's quite unusual that players remain with a club for ten years.
- "contested the 1968 Intercontinental Cup" when where?
- "Both teams competed" which "both"?
- "Benfica have subsequently reached "probably needs WP:ASOF.
- "six more European" further (to avoid repeat of X more Y)
- You link Daily Telegraph in the refs but not any other works/publishers.
- Oh you do, The Guardian but not consistently and not on its first instance.
That's all I have on the first pass, so I'll put it on hold. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
- @The Rambling Man: Note: I'm just starting to work through this. I'm skipping a few points on my first pass, but I'm highlighting them in red so that I don't miss them later, I hope you don't mind. Harrias talk 13:17, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- I don't mind. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:20, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
- @The Rambling Man: Eventually I have responded to each point above, would you be able to take another look? Harrias talk 11:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- I don't mind. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:20, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
All good, literally. Happy to promote. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:19, 5 June 2020 (UTC)