Talk:1982 in aviation

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Bad intentioned information about the Argentines destroyed planes

In this article it is not given importance to the fact that the most of the argentine planes destroyed were destroyed during air to surface combats, no into air to air combats. Hehex2020 (talk) 21:02, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Frankly I don't get what you mean by "Bad intentioned information". I am Argentine, and as far as I know, the Sea-Harriers shot down 20/21 Navy's and Air Force for only one kill by our forces, a Scout chopper over Goose Green (two if you want (see Bluff Cove air attacks), but this would be original research according to WP rules). Claims to the contrary have proven to be wrong, even by Argentine authors. Same thing for air-to-surface combat, as you say: four Harrier/Sea Harriers plus a couple of helicopters on our side, for 19 shot down by British naval and ground AA fire. So, except that you want to cite the Junta's daily reports as reliable sources, yup, it's true, Argentine naval and aerial forces lost 100+ aircraft shot down/destroyed/crashed/captured for 36 of the Task Force.---Darius (talk) 22:25, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Darius, I've tried to explain to this guy about WP:FRINGE but he is determined to right WP:GREATWRONGS in his mind. On another article he is claiming an Argentine soldier armed with a swiss army knife killed half of the SAS (slight exaggeration). WCM_email 00:22, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Never mind, J. Some people here still don't distinguish between the due respect to our vets and the wild claims of the dictatorship, it maybe they are too young or too naive. Don't worry about this particular bloke; he will eventually give up or be permanently blocked. Nice to hear from you again, my best wishes.--Darius (talk) 13:09, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

I did take a peak and the text was ambiguous, I have clarified and added a cite. Are you able to provide a cite for the losses on the mainland? WCM_email 11:32, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

The 100 figure (which also appears in Burden et al{{'}s Falklands: The Air War) appears to include at least one accidental loss, that of a Lynx helicopter - which doesn't seem to be related directly to operations in the Falklands. There were also five Falkland island registered civil aircraft destroyed in the war, mainly by British bombs/artillery fire. It is probably worth saying that the figures quoted for both sides include direct combat losses (from air-to-air and ground-to-air fire, losses on the ground (by bombs, shellfire and the SAS), aircraft that were captured (in various conditions - only a few of which were airworthy or capable of being made airworthy),aircraft lost aboard ships that were damaged or sunk and accidents. At the moment that isn't clear to the reader.Nigel Ish (talk) 12:27, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, I've added a caveat along the lines suggested. Over to you Darius for a cite. WCM_email 14:03, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Not an exhaustive list at hand, J., but I found this article about the crash of a Bell UH-1H and a Pucará, both of them off Caleta Olivia while patrolling the coast between late April and May 1982. They were carrying out these operations within the area know by the FF AA as "TOAS" (Teatro de Operaciones del Atlántico Sur), that included, besides the "TOM" (around the Falklands, Georgias and Sandwich), Argentina's economic exlusive zone. Destroyer ARA Santísima Trinidad also lost a Sea Lynx in this area during the withdrawal of the Argentine Fleet in early May.--Darius (talk) 16:10, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

The Lynx and the Pucara are included in the 100 figure given in Burden et al - the UH-1 isn't.Nigel Ish (talk) 16:45, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

I am not using junta’s information, I am telling that the most of the Argentines loses were in air to surface combatas, no in air to air combats. Hehex2020 (talk) 13:17, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

According to the study: http://www.radarmalvinas.com.ar/hundimientos/aviones_argentinos.pdf The quantity of Argentine planes destroyed by British forces are 41-43, adding the destroyed by friendly fire, the crashed and the captured the total quantity is approximately 68. This quantity can be tested by the article of the war what has a similar quantity of losses. Hehex2020 (talk) 21:55, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

The cited source only lists fixed-wing planes; it fails to take in account the choppers by all causes, plus a couple of Pucará losses in the mainland (within the TOAS).--Darius (talk) 23:15, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

In That article appear the word “plane” not "aircraft" or "choppers and planes". Also in my source listed planes destroyed in the air and in the land like the destroyed during the attack pebble island. Hehex2020 (talk) 01:17, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Just some boring facts using Falklands Air War "FAW" and the spanish language PDF "PDF" linked above -

Argentina

Number	Serial	Type	FAW	PDF
1	C-433	Dagger	Yes	Yes
2	C-428	Dagger	Yes	Yes
3	C-409	Dagger	Yes	Yes
4	C-404	Dagger	Yes	Yes
5	C-403	Dagger	Yes	Yes
6	C-407	Dagger	Yes	Yes
7	C-437	Dagger	Yes	Yes
8	C-419	Dagger	Yes	Yes
9	C-430	Dagger	Yes	Yes
10	C-410	Dagger	Yes	Yes
11	C-433	Dagger	Yes	Yes
12	I-015	Mirage III	Yes	Yes
13	I-019	Mirage III	Yes	Yes
14	C-303	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
15	C-313	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
16	C-246	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
17	C-208	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
18	C-206	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
19	C-248	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
20	C-309	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
21	C-325	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
22	C-242	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
23	C-305	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
24	C-244	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
25	C-319	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
26	C-304	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
27	C-215	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
28	C-301	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
29	C-310	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
30	C-226	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
31	C-228	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
32	C-204	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
33	B-110	Canberra	Yes	Yes
34	B-108	Canberra	Yes	Yes
35	A-527	Pucara	Yes	No*1
36	A-506	Pucara	Yes	No*1
37	A-517	Pucara	Yes	No*1
38	A-502	Pucara	Yes	No*1
39	A-520	Pucara	Yes	No*1
40	A-523	Pucara	Yes	No*1
41	A-529	Pucara	Yes	No*1
42	A-552	Pucara	Yes	No*1
43	A-556	Pucara	Yes	No*1
44	A-531	Pucara	Yes	No*1
45	A-511	Pucara	Yes	No*1
46	A-537	Pucara	Yes	No*1
47	A-555	Pucara	Yes	No*1
48	A-509	Pucara	Yes	No*1
49	A-513	Pucara	Yes	No*1
50	A-514	Pucara	Yes	No*1
51	A-515	Pucara	Yes	No*1
52	A-516	Pucara	Yes	No*1
53	A-522	Pucara	Yes	No*1
54	A-528	Pucara	Yes	No*1
55	A-532	Pucara	Yes	No*1
56	A-533	Pucara	Yes	No*1
57	A-536	Pucara	Yes	No*1
58	A-549	Pucara	Yes	No*1
59	A-540	Pucara	Yes	No*1
60	TC-63	C-130H	Yes	Yes
61	T-24	Learjet	Yes	Yes
62	H-83	Bell 212	Yes	No
63	H-85	Bell 212	Yes	No
64	0660	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
65	0667	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
66	0665	Skyhawk	Yes	Yes
67	0764	MB339	Yes	Yes
68	0765	MB339	Yes	Yes
69	0761	MB339	Yes	Yes
70	0763	MB339	Yes	Yes
71	0767	MB339	Yes	Yes
72	0719	T-34C	Yes	Yes
73	0726	T-34C	Yes	Yes
74	0729	T-34C	Yes	Yes
75	0730	T-34C	Yes	Yes
76	0649	Alouette	Yes	No
77	0735	Lynx	Yes	No
78	PA-54	Skyvan	Yes	Yes
79	PA-50	Skyvan	Yes	Yes
80	PA-12	Puma	Yes	No
81	AE-337	A-109	Yes	No
82	AE-331	A-109	Yes	No
83	AE-334	A-109	Yes	No
84	AE-406	UH-1H	Yes	No
85	AE-409	UH-1H	Yes	No
86	AE-410	UH-1H	Yes	No
87	AE-412	UH-1H	Yes	No
88	AE-413	UH-1H	Yes	No
89	AE-417	UH-1H	Yes	No
90	AE-418	UH-1H	Yes	No
91	AE-422	UH-1H	Yes	No
92	AE-424	UH-1H	Yes	No
93	AE-504	Puma	Yes	No
94	AE-505	Puma	Yes	No
95	AE-501	Puma	Yes	No
96	AE-503	Puma	Yes	No
97	AE-500	Puma	Yes	No
98	AE-508	Puma	Yes	No
99	AE-521	Chinook	Yes	No
100	AE-520	Chinook	Yes	No

Types

Type	FAW	PDF	Note
Dagger A	11	11
Mirage III	2	2
A-4B/C	19	19
Canberra	2	2
Pucara	25	10	*2
Hercules	1	1
Learjet	1	1
Bell 212	2	0
A-4Q Skyhawk	3	3
MB 339	5	7	*1
T-34C	4	4
Alouette III	1	0
Lynx	1	0
Skyvan	2	2
Puma (Prefecture Naval)	1	0
A-109	3	0
UH-1H	9	0
Puma (Army)	6	0
Chinook	2	0
	100	62

• 1 The PDF claims seven MB339 losses, although only six aircraft appear to have been deployed and one returned to the mainland.
• 2 The PDF claims ten Pucara were captured but the FAW lists 25 losses.

So clearly not a real issue with the current entry on the page. MilborneOne (talk) 08:56, 14 August 2020 (UTC)