Talk:2024 Alberta New Democratic Party leadership election

Infobox Pictures

Hi all - with the first candidate announced, it's time to have this discussion. Should we hold off on adding candidates until they are approved? That is what was decided at Talk:2022 United Conservative Party leadership election. RoyalObserver (talk) 17:56, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

I would support that. Lilactree201 (talk) 22:37, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Municipal politicians endorsements

Regarding my previous edit updating endorsements edited to remove Miyashiro as he was not deemed prominent, just want to point out others of the other major political parties which their leadership races have specifically municipal politicians in endorsement sections.

2022 CPC leadership has municipal, but admittedly only those with active Wiki pages and 2013 Liberal Party of Canada leadership election completely omits municipal.

2017 New Democratic Party leadership election, however, does have municipal councillors listed under endorsements, as well as 2022 British Columbia New Democratic Party leadership election. 2014 Alberta New Democratic Party leadership election and 2023 Ontario New Democratic Party leadership election goes even further to have former candidates listed.

While Miyashiro might not be notable enough for a Wiki page, an 8 year city councillor for the 4th largest city in a province of 4.5 million certainly seems relevant in a Provincial context as well—beyond the fact many other federal and provincial Canadian leadership pages do include municipal politicians. Divinxx (talk) 23:08, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Would love others to weigh in, since I'm the one who removed Miyashiro.

I'm of the belief, and based on past pages, that only WP:N municipal politicians should be added. Miyashiro does not warrant a wikipedia page, and outside of local politics is not a notable official. Arguably, there are others outside of politics in Calgary, Edmonton, etc. that would be considered more notable than him yet we would likely exclude as well.

I wasn't involved in the 2023 Ontario ND wiki, but I would've likely recommended excluding non-notable FORMER municipal politicians and former candidates. I think the 2018 Ontario PC leadership was a noteworthy exemption for candidates, given the timing and their influence just before an election.

I think including current municipal politicians could be up for discussion though.

For my argument, I'll cite the practice used at 2022 United Conservative Party leadership election, 2017 United Conservative Party leadership election, Endorsements for the 2022 Conservative Party of Canada leadership election, 2013 Liberal Party of Canada leadership election, 2022 British Columbia Liberal Party leadership election.

Would love others to weigh in. RoyalObserver (talk) 18:01, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I think the standard of having a Wikipedia page to be included is a good rule to follow here. It provides a clear yes/no answer for inclusion and avoids having arguments about the notability of many kinds of officials. Lilactree201 (talk) 21:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. If the person is notable enough to have a Wikipedia page, I think it likely should be included. If not, then it shouldn't. That said, generally I support creating a fork for these as was done in the case of Endorsements for the 2022 Conservative Party of Canada leadership election. Unfortunately, endorsements often take up far to much room and damage readability of election articles. If the number of endorsements remains manageable it is fine to leave them in this article. If not, I would support moving them to a separate article about endorsements only so that the few this information is important to can still find it, but it will not damage the readability for others. As is often done with opinion polls, we need to be mindful of WP:NOTSTATS. Creating a fork and then summarizing the information in the main article is often a good way to deal with long overly detailed sections.-- Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 00:17, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

As the person who put Miyashiro in, I think it is totally fair to exclude him, as long as there is a clear line notability, and as Royal Observer put forward that if any current municipal politicians endorse anyone—we could revisit this discussion. I do find it a tad frustrating that there seems to be so much variability across pages for this topic though.

I would be pro creating a spur endorsement line should more people throw their endorsements in the ring, but we are still early doors and do not know how many endorsements or candidates are still to come. As of right now, still seems to be a very manageable level of readability. Divinxx (talk) 07:20, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

I think one exemption could be Gil McGowan. He's been rumoured to run. If he throws his support behind another candidate, I think he's noteworthy enough due to the coverage of his own potential candidacy. Thoughts? RoyalObserver (talk) 17:20, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

I think the exception where there is extensive coverage of someone running (and thus they are already mentioned in the article), may mean it is appropriate to say they declined to run (or dropped out) and endorsed someone. Perhaps we deal with that exclusively in declined candidates section, instead of the endorsement box or instead of both places.-- Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 00:35, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Endorsements from non-notable former candidates, splitting out endorsements to a separate article?

This edit recently added endorsements from a host of non-notable former NDP candidates. Should we include endorsements from non-notable former candidates? If so, as noted above, should we consider creating a fork and moving all endorsements to a sub-article like Endorsements for the 2024 Alberta New Democratic Party leadership election. This was the approach taken with 2022 Conservative Party of Canada leadership election#Endorsements and Endorsements for the 2022 Conservative Party of Canada leadership election.-- Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 18:16, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I would not include former candidates unless there is some surge in support for including them on this talk page. For now, endorsements from "Wikipedia Notable" people seem manageable to keep on the page. The Alberta NDP doesn't have that many current and former MLAs, and not all will endorse, so that may keep the lists trim. Lilactree201 (talk) 23:19, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. I will boldly remove those endorsements. Perhaps, there will be no opposition, otherwise perhaps it will trigger a WP:BRD cycle.-- Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 00:07, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the short list of former MLAs may keep the list trim, but I would like to raise the relevance of former candidates to a party of this size. With few MLAs in its history, candidates can hold a bit more importance and status than in parties with long histories. I personally think if we keep endorsements on this page, candidates should be excluded (for readability), but if a spur is created at some point in the future, candidates should be included. Divinxx (talk) 07:27, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

I still think we should leave former candidates out. Where do we draw the line? A candidate who was put on the ballot in Peace River who was never going to win holds less weight than someone in a very tight race who actually built a following. Sticking with WP:N keeps it manageable.

As for the separate article, I think if we do the drop down boxes like the UCP leadership wiki did, it will be manageable. We can always move it to a separate page if it grows too large. RoyalObserver (talk) 16:16, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

I think the gap here is “notable” vs ‘meaningful.’ Sure, the list is shorter without non-notable former candidates, but that doesn’t make a non-notable person’s endorsement not meaningful. And is it worth omitting something meaningful for the sake of being manageable?

Personally, I think it would be valuable for some readers to see how certain non-winning candidates endorsed, but I understand there not being a good way to draw a line other than all or just notables.

Not endorsing either ‘all’ or just ‘notables’ with this reply, just voicing my concerns with it. Divinxx (talk) 18:11, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Sarah Hoffman announced?

Has Sarah Hoffman announced? This CBC article seems to say that Sarah Hoffman is "in the leadership race", but I don't see coverage concerning an announcement or anything on Twitter etc.-- Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 00:30, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Nothing official yet I don't think. Lilactree201 (talk) 03:12, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

She is now registered with Elections Alberta: https://www.elections.ab.ca/political-participants/leadership-contests/ Lilactree201 (talk) 22:10, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

This seems like enough to me to be "officially" in the race, just because she hasn't said the exact words herself yet doesn't make the Elections Alberta registration any less official. Plus there is now this: [1]https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/hoffman-to-announce-ndp-leadership-run-at-sunday-edmonton-event-1.6763945 Divinxx (talk) 18:21, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Registration makes her officially in the race, particularly along with other RS saying she is "in the race". Elections Alberta says she "announced interest" on January 29, 2024 for what it is worth.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 18:43, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I think we can add her. Date declared will be tomorrow though. Kiltarni (talk) 21:40, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Infobox Colours

Hey all,

Do we want to add unique candidate colours for each leadership candidate, similar to 2022 United Conservative Party leadership election, 2017 United Conservative Party leadership election, or 2023 Ontario Liberal Party leadership election? It will help us distinguish each candidate in the polling graphs when they're added, like in those articles.

If we're in favour, I'd recommend using accent colours from their websites. RoyalObserver (talk) 16:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Unique colours are unnecessary until we have data to communicate in a table or map using colour. It also make more sense to do this around the time we are adding those features so that we can ensure they look good on said map, have sufficient contrast etc.-- Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 18:13, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

It won't take long. I've already received a telephone poll asking about the race. Pollsters will start publishing soon, which is why I'm starting the conversation. RoyalObserver (talk) 20:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Sure, I am not sure colours are really needed for a opinion poll table. They can be nice to have, but aren't needed yet. There's no rush until we are using maps. In previous contests editors have selected colours for candidates, only to have map makers use different ones later for reasons of contrast etc. There is no need to have the discussion twice, which is more likely to happen if we decide early. At this stage we don't even know who the candidates are or how many there will be. I'd suggest we keep colours out of the article until the candidate application period closes.-- Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 20:32, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm good to wait until we have polls published. Lilactree201 (talk) 01:03, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. I wouldn't wait until the end - the colours can be updated easily if they don't work for maps (if maps are even done). Unique colours for the polling table will make it more accessible visually for those reading it. RoyalObserver (talk) 21:58, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

It is worth noting that colours weren't used in the 2014 Alberta New Democratic Party leadership election nor the 2017 New Democratic Party leadership election because polling graphs and maps were never added. So it might not be useful for us to spend time discussing them now, if they might never be used.--Darryl Kerrigan (talk) 22:11, 13 February 2024 (UTC)