Talk:42nd Infantry Division (United States)

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Untitled[edit]

The 42nd Division was not organized as a National Guard division after World War I.

is this true?
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Grazon (talk • contribs) 23:07, 17 October 2005.

That is correct, it was called up in 1943.--Berndd11222 17:07, 15 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]


the comment about the origan of the unit insigna does not match what is in the division history. according to divion history it was MacAthor as division chief of staff that said" the division streach across america like a rainbow" because it had units from every then state in the union. for this see the division's wed sit.

plus where is the history about the patch itself. during WWI and WWII it was a half circle no it is a quarter??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sfrigger (talk • contribs) 05:59, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It has always been a quarter-circle, i.e., half a rainbow. DMorpheus (talk) 17:45, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
so I had the WWII part of it wrong, but the article itself now states that the pacth was changed in WWI to honor the 1/2 of the divison that became casualties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sfrigger (talk •

So now the article state that I am have my patch on backwards. there was a big fight over this in 05 in Iraq. could whoever put that on the page please provide a link to the perscom letter that states this. Plus where is the unit historian to clear all this stuff up?


contribs) 02:50, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The 42nd Division patch definitely started off as a half arc and was modified to a quarter arc after World War I. I've added details and photos to the article page, and I've included references. The book Insignia of the 42nd Rainbow Division explains the history of the shoulder sleeve insignia in detail and includes photos that show how the patch evolved over time.
Billmckern (talk) 15:20, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

War Crimes[edit]

I edited the war crimes section since the cited reference did nothing to back up any claim that 42nd ID personnel were involved in the Dachau "massacre". DMorpheus (talk) 17:45, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted the "War Crimes" section (copied below) for lack of a specific reference.
According to Antonio J. Munoz following the German surrender in May 1945, about two hundred SS grenadiers belonging to the I Battalion, 38th SS Regiment of 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division Götz von Berlichingen, were captured by the men of 42nd Infantry Division and subsequently massacred. The fate of these men had been shrouded in mystery for many years. Eyewitnesses to what happened to these men were not forthcoming. Eventually, shortly after the war, some citizens of that city directed Red Cross officials to what turned out to be a mass grave which yielded two hundred bodies, all in Waffen-SS uniforms. The grave was located just west of the city. Nothing was done to identify these men or how they came to be there until 1976, when the remains of one of the corpses was positively identified as that of SS-Hauptsturmführer Kukula, the commander of I Battalion, SS Panzergrenadier Regiment 38. Further autopsies on the other bodies soon followed, showing that many of the men in that grave had been beaten to death with blunt instruments (possibly rifle butts). Most had been shot at very close range, suggesting that a massacre had taken place.[1]" 66.108.243.166 (talk) 09:59, 15 September 2010 (UTC)Moi[reply]

References

  1. ^ Iron Fist: A Combat History of the 17. SS-Panzergrenadier-Division "Götz von Berlichingen

Removal of section: War Crimes[edit]

This section was removed in its entirety because it was directly copied from copyrighted material -- Munoz, Antonio J. - Iron Fist: A Combat History of the 17. SS-Panzergrenadier-Division "Götz von Berlichingen". If this material is re-introduced to the article, it should be written without stealing copyrighted material. Please do not revert the copyrighted material back into the article. W. B. Wilson (talk) 06:49, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also note that this book is probably not a reliable source as well. Nick-D (talk) 04:04, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Theres nothing wrong about using material for a encyclopedia, as long as the source is mentioned. Deleting the whole section about war crimes appears too much like revisionism. The dachau massacre is confirmed, only the number of executions ranging from 80 till 500 is debateable as well as other massacres like the webling massacre and others are confirmed till very likely. The main problem is, that there were never any examinations, not to mention trials, that could prove it. In the end it should at least be written down in the article, that the division is accused of several war crimes in WW2 and mentioned, why there was never or rarely a real examination of the accusations. Therefor as long as no one has proved these accusations wrong, they should be mentioned. 188.98.196.81 (talk) 20:30, 9 June 2011 (UTC) SW[reply]
Except that excerpts from copyrighted material were not identified as such, and in any case, the amount copied was questionable. As well, the material is confused. There is a difference between the Dachau massacre and the unsubstantiated allegations that a massacre also occurred outside of Nuremberg. I have no issues with the Dachau massacre being mentioned as long as reliable sources are used. The trouble with the literature that admires the Nazis and the SS is that much of it was produced without much attention to accuracy and this is why items like the alleged Nuremberg massacre continue to reappear: the material was incompletely researched to begin with and then mindlessly repeated on the internet. Let us sort the wheat from the chaff on Wikipedia if nowhere else. W. B. Wilson (talk) 11:09, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rainbow Boulevard, Kansas City, Kansas[edit]

I have been told for years that Rainbow Boulevard in Kansas City, Kansas was named after the Rainbow Division from World War I. It is the nearest main street to the Rosedale Arch, a small triumphal arch that is on top of a hill, just to the west of Rainbow.Jtyroler (talk) 07:29, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, as can be seen here: Rosedale World War I Memorial Arch. There's a book called In Search of Rainbow Memorials, which does a good job of cataloging the many monuments, parks, streets and other items that commemorate the 42nd Division. Maybe I'll try to add a section on these memorials to the 42nd Division article page when I have time.
Billmckern (talk) 15:20, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Exaggerations ?[edit]

So, the 42nd had a fame of a kind of Roosevelt's SS !? Regarding the relatively remote significance of its WW II participation that seems a typical example of boasting, somewhat notorious among U. S. division histories (other: the 63d Division carved a path of "blood and fire" from Sarreguemines through Germany - wow !). Reminds of the - allegedly - epiteth given U.S. Marines by german soldiers in WW I Teufelhunde, a term not even existent in German. Seems, that fabrication and fantasy played no minor role. A quite primitive tendency to bragging and big-mouthing. Afterwards. --2001:A61:2B66:7E01:9D48:906B:C4D4:D8C5 (talk) 09:00, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In pop culture[edit]

I'm going to make a new section about the 42nd infantry division in pop culture. So far, I know the movie Cloverfield features the 42nd Infantry division. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.91.121.3 (talk) 16:45, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nickname[edit]

I found the article via a reference to "the Rainbow Division". First thought: was that name because it mixed Americans of all colours? Second thought: or maybe they were gay. So, I have added a definition to the first para. I think a few words about their WW1 service are also important for perspective, since it might be all a reader sees. Humpster (talk) 02:36, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Plagiarism[edit]

'On the night of February 27 Germans laid down a heavy concentration of artillery and mortar fire and under this the elements of the 6th Mountain Division were withdrawn and replaced by the 22 1st VoIks grenadier Regiment. In the brief period this unit had been in the line it had come to respect the Rainbow and fear its patrols and raids. "Is your Division a part of Roosevelt's SS?" asked one German when captured. The remark was passed along and men kidded each other about being in the Rainbow SS.'

This copy/paste isn't from the article. It is from the source "Daly". (any errors are likely OCR). I was going to delete the plagiarized passage when I thought just two sentences had been copied. But I found there was more. I haven't reviewed the rest of the article.

Perhaps the quick fix is to put it all in a block quote. But the whole article should be reviewed for plagiarism. Humpster (talk) 03:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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