Talk:AEW Bash at the Beach

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Notability / Merge???[edit]

NO CONSENSUS TO MERGE

There is no consensus for a merge to WCW Bash at the Beach#Legacy. Supporters of a merge argued that this is a just a small TV special episode and not a big PPV event and that the material will be redundant to Chris Jericho's Rock 'N' Wrestling Rager at Sea#Second Wave and WCW Bash at the Beach#Legacy, while opposers argued that this is a separate chronology and is not just a single episode but is a nine-day event.

The arguments on both sides are reasonable and the number of editors supporting and opposing a merge are roughly divided so there is no consensus.

Cunard (talk) 02:00, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

How is this notable? It's just a special episode of Dynamite, NOT a PPV. It's very similar to a few years ago when TNA Wrestling started doing PPV-themed special episodes of iMPACT and the consensus was they were not notable and were either merged into the prior existing PPV series pages, or simply did not get one if they were a new show (such as this). I fail to see how this is any different. It's certainly not as noteworthy as, say WWE Raw 1000 for example.

A brief mention in the WCW Bash at the Beach#Legacy section should suffice. 69.29.87.152 (talk) 01:57, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Merge Special episodes generally are not notable. Other Bash at the Beaches have previously been notable but that is WP:NOTINHERITED. We can include results on a List of AEW Dynamite special episodes article if one gets created. Results should not be included on the WCW article.LM2000 (talk) 05:54, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - Completely agreed. 69.29.87.152 (talk) 15:57, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Striking my vote, now keep. Apparently this isn't a single episode of Dynamite but rather a nine day event consisting of two episodes and other shows. This information doesn't really belong anywhere else but a separate article.LM2000 (talk) 22:12, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment - @LM2000: Even knowing everything except for the very first episode of Dynamite is taking place as part of "Chris Jericho's Rock 'N' Wrestling Rager at Sea"? The remaining 8 nights (including the Jan 22 episode of Dynamite) are part of Jericho's cruise and very easily could and in fact should be mentioned on there regardless of how this debate ends up. Thoughts? 69.29.87.152 (talk) 23:08, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep A merge is not appropriate because this is a separate chronology. Also this is not just 1 special episode, its several items over the course of 9 days, so its more in line with the multiple day tours ROH does which have plenty of articles. - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 12:08, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - Yes exactly, it's a separate chronology so notability is WP:NOTINHERITED. Which is why the plan is to merge this into the legacy section of the WCW Bash at the Beach page. I'm sure you were around back in the TNA "PPV episode" days so you know exactly what I'm talking about and prior consensus is that these types of specials are NOT notable. Don't let the AEW bias affect this discussion, please. 69.29.87.152 (talk) 15:56, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • You are comparing apples to oranges. Each instance needs to be looked at individually and a determination based the sourcing of that case. Just because Impact's shows did not have enough coverage, does not mean that AEW's wont. The article contains sourcing from months ago until now, it shows that there is enough to satisfy WP:EVENTCRITERIA. - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 16:54, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well, it's actually comparing apples to apples, but I digress. 69.29.87.152 (talk) 17:37, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep as it is, there will be plenty of coverage to satisfy GNG, so it is reasonable to keep it as a standalone article. a mention in the WCW seems approprite. MPJ-DK (talk) 14:21, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - if there was a merge here, I'd recommend moving the page to Bash at the Beach, as this is now the third company to do shows under this moniker. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:51, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge - I agree with what LM2000 has stated. I would also like to bring up this is, again, very similar to not only the TNA "PPV" Specials, but also WWE "PPV" Specials like The Great American Bash#2012. Prior consensus dictates these types of specials are not notable and AEW does not get a pass. 69.29.87.152 (talk) 16:06, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • If there is enough significant, independent coverage in reliable third party sources then they totally are notable, regardless of consensus. The  WP:GNG Iis a much broader Wikipedia based consensus, which is why that is the measuring stick for standalone articles.MPJ-DK (talk) 16:46, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - From what Galatz has said (and what I saw from the sources), this consists of ONE standalone special episode of Dynamite on Jan 15, and then the remaining events take place as part of Chris Jericho's Rock 'N' Wrestling Rager at Sea from Jan 20-24 and will be taped for the Jan 22 episode. If that's the case I even more so think this is a candidate for a merge.
This article is going to be almost identical to the Chris Jericho's Rock 'N' Wrestling Rager at Sea#Second Wave and WCW Bash at the Beach#Legacy sections. What I'm proposing then, is a "Special Episodes" section be made on the Dynamite article, merge the AEW Bash at the Beach#Background section into the WCW page, and then the remaining 5 days of events go rightfully into the Rock 'N' Rager article. 69.29.87.152 (talk) 17:37, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Per the source AEW today announced “Bash at the Beach,” an unprecedented, nine-day experience for superfans that features two Dynamite shows, a cruise onboard Chris Jericho’s tricked-out party ship, and non-stop entertainment in between. So no, it wont be just that. It is a series of events...2 TV shows, a cruise, and other stuff as well. So what you are proposing does not make sense. - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 17:46, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Explain? It makes perfect sense. The majority of these events are going to have to be on the Rock 'N' Rager page, because of obvious reasons... Only the first episode of Dynamite is going to not take place from the cruise. "entertainment in-between" is extremely vague and does not in anyway mean non-televised wrestling events / house shows. That's WP:OR. It could just mean hanging out with the wrestlers, similar to the old WWF cruises. Maybe play some volleyball vs the wrestlers??? 69.29.87.152 (talk) 17:58, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Think about what you are saying. You want a piece of this on Jericho's cruise page, a piece on the Dynamite page, and a piece on WCW's Bash at the Beach page. The rest, no matter what it is, no matter how big or small will just not be covered anything. All this when you have something that by itself meets WP:GNG. The page makes nothing but sense - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 18:26, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Please do think about what I'm saying. The large majority of this is GOING TO BE on Jericho's cruise page because it is TAKING PLACE on Jericho's cruise and it would be incompetent to not include it on that article. But it also must be included here, because the cruise part two is "Bash at the Beach" themed.
The background section is listed at the WCW#Legacy section; 1. Because it already is (albeit not as concise) and 2. Because it makes sense to do so. Of course, that also needs to be listed here for obvious reasons.
It should be listed on the Dynamite page, because prior consensus says weekly wrestling shows get a section (or article in WWE's case) for special episodes... The Bash at the Beach special should be listed there.
That just leaves "entertainment in-between" and the results from night 1 as the only thing that isn't going to be a duplicate. That is simply not notable. Maybe the night one special could get a brief mention in the background section on the Rock 'N' Rager article? Because the remaining events are part of the cruise first and foremost, and the tour started on the Jan 15 episode of Dynamite? We can merge this into the "Chris Jericho's Rock 'N' Wrestling Rager at Sea" article if you prefer, or a mix like I suggested. 69.29.87.152 (talk) 22:57, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You are making assumptions and conclusions based on zero facts. You stated above the remaining 8 nights (including the Jan 22 episode of Dynamite) are part of Jericho's cruise and comments like that just show you are making things up as you go. Please explain how a 4 night cruise is taking place over 8 nights. I would love the hear this one. - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 14:06, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • This argument was already resolved back in 2012. Just do the same for AEW Bash at the Beach as has already been done for the Great American Bash. Or Starcade. Cody now owning the WCW BATB rights is no different than WWE now owning the other WCW PPV rights. You might as well say that Bound for Glory should be seperate since Anthem now owns it, or that Jeff Jarrett is no longer involved, or because they changed the name from TNA to Impact. 172.90.216.7 (talk) 22:07, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • That is a very different discussion. Those involve one chronology, this does not. One company acquired the other, which did not happen here - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 22:10, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge pages with Bash at the Beach. It is a small TV special episode and not a big PPV event. The article is very short as is and contains the same information as WCW Bash at the Beach. Also WP:TOOSOON as AEW has not announced anything else other than it being a Dynamite Bash at the Beach themed episode. If merged, it would have paragraphs of text with a results table like The Great American Bash#2012. Similarly to this, it was a special live airing of SmackDown TV as opposed to a PPV event. Originalchampion (talk) 01:25, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge page with Bash at the Beach. Completely pointless to have a completely new page for what amounts to two television episodes and a couple of untelevised house shows from a boat. Can be quickly summarized in a "Legacy" section on the WCW Bash at the Beach page. If AEW continues to use the "Bash at the Beach" name in future years, then a page should be made. Mt.FijiBoiz (talk) 17:27, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge: After reading through the above points, I agree this should be merged. A small tv special episode is not noteworthy enough to have a page. Maybe if AEW makes this a "WWE Tribute to the Troops" type of yearly event, then it can get a series page, otherwise WP:TOOSOON. AEWFanboy 04:12, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Keep: As many others have already stated, this is not a single Dynamite episode, but rather a nine day event similar in vein to the multi-day NJPW Destruction events, which all have their individual pages. If this was a one day or singular television episode, I would vote to merge, but since this a multi day event spanning several different locations, I feel it is more reasonable to keep it. - Ducktech89(talk) 25 November 2019, 8:17 (UTC)
  • Keep: This should not be merged with the WCW Bash at the Beach page in any way. It is a completely seperate chronology. Cody did not purchase the name “WCW Bash At The Beach”, he purchased just “Bash At The Beach”. WWE purchased WCW as a company outright, therefore if the original WCW Bash At The Beach chronology were to continue, it would only be with WWE. Once WWE no longer owned the rights, that ended the original chronology. Somebody else purchasing the name rights does not mean they also purchase the history of the original event. As an example, there have been many companies over the years that have held events known as “Night Of Champions”. That doesn’t mean they all share the same chronology. Going back to the 70s and 80s many companies all used similar show names like “All Star Wrestling” for example. Again, doesn’t mean they should all share the same event page. And as far as the Jericho Cruise goes, let's wait it out and see what happens with these shows instead of rushing to a decision. Let's see what exactly takes place first and then we can worry about where this page fits. OldSkool01 (talk) 05:37, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - The difference is, Cody bought the rights specifically because his father created the event in WCW and wants to pay homage (hence merging it into the WCW BATB Legacy section). That's completely distinct from multiple companies using a generic name like “All Star Wrestling” for example. Not at all the same situation. Besides that, this is still not independently notable. 184.157.27.126 (talk) 22:22, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment - The reason why Cody bought the rights is irrelevent. Let’s say hypothetically at some point in the future WWE no longer decides to use the WrestleMania name, and then 19 years later Howard Finkel’s son buys the rights to the name, because he wants to pay tribute to his dad for coming up with the name, that doesn’t mean it follows the same lineage as the original WrestleMania. OldSkool01 (talk) 00:20, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Clearly we are not on the same page here... Obviously it's not the same lineage, nobody here ever claimed it was whatsoever. The plan is to give it "A brief mention in the WCW Bash at the Beach#Legacy section" because it's not independently notable, but DOES pay tribute to the original PPV. Hence the whole legacy thing. It's not that difficult to read the original nomination. 75.121.28.46 (talk) 04:20, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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