Talk:AVN Award for Female Performer of the Year/Archive 1

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Archive 1

BLP compliance

BLP compliance demands that we do not emntion living people here without a reliable source, see WP:BLP. In enforcing this I have had to remove all names form the articvle, names can only be restored with a ref♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 17:08, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Per very similar editing concerns noted here & elsewhere, I have reverted the recent changes made (including the bad faith PROD). What this article needs at best is slightly better citations (many of which can be found at the bottom of the article), not wholesale deletion. Guy1890 (talk) 22:51, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Restoring BLP vio material is not goiong to solve the problem-. Try discussing here or at the BLP noticeboard but yu cannot insert BLP violating material onto this site which ahs been challenged without incurring in a serioius policy violation. If as you claim the sources are available it is 100% your responsibility to add them if you want to re-add any names of likely living ppl, there can be no discussion on this point. You have had 6 months to sort this out, Guy♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 22:53, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
You've already tried the route of going to BLP/N and that BLP complaint went nowhere. What you're up to here is obvious "Squeak"...you're obviously out to blank as much pornography-related content as possible. You've already been told elsewhere (as referenced above) by an administrator that you actions are out of line. Please revert your changes & assist in good faith by adding better citations for content that is controversial or likely to be challenged in good faith. Guy1890 (talk) 23:03, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
What, that is your defence for violating BLP by reinserting chasllengd material today? Whayt I am up to is making this article BLP compliant, are you going to help or hinder? And where has an admin told me I am out of line for defending BLP? Nowhere. besides policy makes the laws, admins are one group that enforce them. Please stop making excuses for adding BLP challeneged material about living people, it can only end in tears. I find it very hard to argue with someone who argues we should ignore BLP and unles you change your attitiude Iwill cease to discuss this with you, BLP empowers us to make these removals without discussion. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 23:09, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
"And where has an admin told me I am out of line for defending BLP"...right here, as I'm sure you are well aware of by now. Guy1890 (talk) 23:14, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
He was acting as a fellow editor not an admin. I am not willing to discuss this with you further in fairness to DMack who is likely not aware of the discussion here but what you saying is not an arguemnt for justifying violating BLP (admins dont have the right to vilate BLP either!)and actually BLP compliancy has been reached on that article♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 23:22, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
"BLP compliancy has been reached on that article"...by doing the exact same thing that you're being asked to do here...simply go to the Wiki-linked articles to see that the material that you are trying to remove is not contentious at all, period. Guy1890 (talk) 23:29, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
The BLP violating naterial must be removed first, clearly. I am happy to help if others do too in looking for reliable sources but first I want to ensure all the BLP violations have been removed, but in helping with the porn autobiographies today I was showing what can be done and that my efforts are directed entirely towards better porn coverage not worse porn coverage. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 23:36, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

"The BLP violating naterial must be removed first"...not if it can be easily sourced, which means that it is not contentious material at all. "I am happy to help if others do too in looking for reliable sources"...if that were true "Squeak", then you'd just look in the Wiki-linked articles for the sources that you keep complaining about. Guy1890 (talk) 23:54, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

It is contentious material because I have challenged it, you cannot claim it is not contentious material simply because I have challenged. There is no mention in BLP about exemptions for easily sourced material so please stop mentioning this point or go and change the BLP policy, until then your point is not releavnt because it is not covered by BLP policy and I am trying to enforce BLP policy here. BLP does NOT state it is my duty to find sources for material I have removed as BLP non complaint so it is not an arguemnt to restore BLP non complaint material either. We are better off both stopping talking and getting on wioth the only solution, to add the refs and restore the names of living people one by one, perhaps a tedious job but one demanded of by BLP policy and in the pursuit of a better encyclopedia♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 00:03, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
I have now restored one person with a reliable enough ref to ensure BLP compliance. Which is one more than you have done so far, Guy1890. Come on, you know we can make this and these articles even better by making them BLP compliant, whereas arguing over BLP policy wont achieve anything as the policy is very clear in demanding these refs are explicitly in thia article for all living people♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 00:29, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
Squeakbox, I've found another BLP policy-violating article! I don't have the wikipedia background or reputation to successfully fight your eminently admirable war for rules compliance, so if you'd please go blank that page for me, it'd be a great favour! I think you'll find that by my challenge, I have made this page contentious material. You know what to do. Thanks, 69.77.147.49 (talk) 03:40, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
As per WP:SELFSOURCE, I believe AVN is a reliable source for the AVN Awards. I have therefore added intexts for all previously referenced nominations sources, as per WP:RELIABLE, as well as added secondary sources for winners. I have furthermore removed all uncited nominations lists. I believe this solves the compliance issue. romnempire (talk) 05:34, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

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Format

This article was a simple text list for many years after its creation. It was changed into a coatrack to display relatively large images, a format not used in the great majority, if not all, of film awards lists, or in other performer award articles. Most such lists, particularly lengthy lists, are text only, or with selected images displayed to the extent they fit alongside the text display. After I converted the list to a more standard format, and made the display more compact and more readable (a change that has been uncontroversial on related articles previously in a similar nonstandard format). Rebecca1990 reverted, with an inaccurate comment about other lists. I restored. Rebecca reverted again. Tabercil proposed modifications used in other articles, and I endorsed his version (which Rebecca had again reverted with an edit summary insisting that her preferred version had to stand since there was no contrary guideline (even though it was inconsistent with general practice and Tabercil's version was preferred by two of the three editors involved). [Note, for the record, that although Rebecca objects in particular to "comma separated" listings within a cell, the form is used in articles like Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award). Rebecca1990 has now reverted four times in about two hours (the latest version makes not-very-consequential adjustments to the display). I see no reason to to depart from general practice here; Tabercil's modification of the format I used (similar to that used in, for example, Grammy Award for Best Female Rock Vocal Performance is an effective and efficient presentation of the important information. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (talk) 02:53, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Rebecca's version is obviously better. The fact that most lists haven't received as much attention is not a reason to revert an editor who adds appropriate images. I don't think the large images interfere with anyone's ability to read the list, but her suggestion of reducing the image size is certainly preferable to eliminating most of the images. --Sammy1339 (talk) 16:58, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
Are you kidding? There are scores of Best Actress lists, hundreds of performer awards lists, and the vast majority of them, if not all of them, don't use this format. Nobody's even pointed to a single counterexample yet. And if you're saying that Academy Award for Best Actress and Cannes Film Festival Award for Best Actress and Goya Award for Best New Actress and Los Angeles Film Critics Association Award for Best Actress and Saturn Award for Best Actress and Screen Actors Guild Award for Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor in a Leading Role, not to mention other performer awards like Grammy Award for Best New Artist and BET Award for Best New Artist and Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award and Tony Award for Best Actress in a Musical and even List of Fields medalists "haven't received as much attention" as the porn award list in question, you're just talking through your hat. There are a few lists with images embedded in tables, but just about all of those cover heads of state or other high government officials, and the practice there is to use much smaller images. List articles are list articles, not annotated imaged galleries. Consensus and practice call for text-centric lists, not thinly disguised image galleries. (Also, I don't think there are any other award list articles about people which display nominees when the standard number of nominees regularly exceeds six, so just allowing those lists to remain in any form is more than a bit of a middle ground). The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (talk) 18:21, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
Out of the four versions there are, the one I'm opposed to the most would have to be this one. It makes more sense to say either include all or include none than to just randomly select a few recipients to include photos of. I get that Tori Black is the only two-time winner of this award, but what makes Asia Carrera, Asa Akira, and Anikka Albrite particularly special out of the 24 winners? I also oppose both versions that separate the nominees by commas instead of listing them. The Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award has no nominees, so it's a bad example. Every example provided of categories that actually have nominees do not have them separated by commas. Rebecca1990 (talk) 16:56, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

All the winners' pictures is totally unneeded. If the reader wants to see winner's picture they can simply visit the article for that. I think there should be only the picture of two-time winner Tori Black and another performer's picture who has recevied the most nominations? --46.130.23.131 (talk) 17:30, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

I won't click on 20 articles in order to see what persons won that award. Including images in lists of persons makes absolutely sense and I would propably not be willing to read the very long List of Nobel Peace Prize laureates if there were no photos. That has nothing to do with "cleavage" or something like that. When including not too big pictures from the appropriate year (which I did last month) there should be no problem. --SamWinchester000 (talk) 18:09, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
  • The reality here is that good Wikipedia articles have at least a few pictures on them. This slow motion edit warring across many list articles is really getting annoying and is very hard to follow at this late date. I would suggest a centralized discussion somewhere is needed at this late date...maybe at WikiProject Pornography or WikiProject Lists? Guy1890 (talk) 04:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

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