Talk:Abram, Greater Manchester

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Old talk page messages[edit]

Vera howarth 13:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)re Abram. Abram is in the county of Lancashire not greater manchester.[reply]

No, Abram is in Greater Manchester, the boundrys where re-drawn in in the 1970s. As much as we'd still like to think we are Lancastrians we are not any longer :-(

re Maypole colliery-a monument to the mining disaster ,giving names of the fatalities ,stands in the parish church-yard. The chimney of the colliery stood for many years post-closure and served as a monument to all those who had worked the mine.It was a well -loved landmark ,it has now ,in the last year ,been demolished to make way for housing.This is nothing less than vandalism!

Abram was once served by an independent urban council. It had it`s own Coat of Arms,which is not shown on your heraldry links pages. It had a fine red brick Council Office which is being allowed to fall into a sorry state.

The Abram Urban District also incorporated other villages ie, BICKERSHAW BAMFURLONG CRANKWOOD. All of these were mining villages.

There is also much farmland and several very old farmhouses remain.

In 1945 a steam locomotive and its driver were swallowed up on the railway embankment near the New Zealand bridge that once stood on Bickershaw Lane.

Abram was once known as the smallest town in England.

  • Abram is bigger than Golborne and is only one third of a square mile smaller than Wigan! 80.193.161.89 23:52, 17 March 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.[reply]

About the Borough[edit]

With a population of about 300,000 across an area of 77 square miles, Wigan is one of the largest metropolitan districts in England. The borough is based around the two main towns of Wigan and Leigh, and several smaller towns and villages of the former Lancashire coalfield. Wigan is the most westerly district of the county of Greater Manchester, although many local people (and the Royal Mail) prefer to consider the area part of Lancashire. [1]

Carl Sixsmith 07:23, 11 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Royal Mail abolished postal counties over eleven years ago, so why the council website is asserting this I do not know. -- Jza84 · (talk) 13:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/CommunityLiving/AboutBorough/

Responding to call for more info on GM project page[edit]

I thought I'd see if there was anything I could add to this following the request on the GM project talk page. I've looked at Youngs book. It appears to have information which differs a little at first from that cited information about the history of Abrams.

It states that Abram was a township in Wigan ancient parish, and that it became a separate civil parish in 1866. Youngs also states that it was in West Derby Hundred (as opposed to Salford Hundred), and that it was also in Wigan poor law union, Abram urban sanitary district and then Abram urban district, which involved a boundary change in 1957. All this is on page 141, where the parishes are described. The entry for Wigan doesn't help much, but the section dealing with Local Government units helps a bit more: in this, on page678, it lists Abram as being in West Derby Hundred, but only from 1866, whic may well be when the urban district was founded. On the same page, it says that part of Wigan was in West Derby hundred until 1866, and all of it was after 1866 (though by then they surely must have become largely defunct!). On page 679, it lists part of Wigan as being in Salford hundred, but only until 1866, with no mention of Abram.

Now is there an obvious non-synthetic way of rationalising these differences? It may be that a part of Wigan ancient parish which included Abram township was in Salford Hundred, and that on the reorganisation of 1866, all of it was transferred to West Derby hundred, but it isn't explicit about that, and, as I said, by that time, I always understood that the hundredal system was largely defunct. It would however reconcile the apparent differences as well as highlighting an error of omission on the part of Youngs. If this were acceptable, then may be it could do with some short explanation in the text.

Youngs book also gives details of it ecclesiastical history and parliamentary history, and would these be worthwhile including?  DDStretch  (talk) 19:24, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

West Derby hundred
That seems like a reasonable assumption, but a map from 1610 of the West Derby hundred (right) shows Abram well within the borders of the hundred. I don't see how the settlement can have later left the hundred without a pretty major redrawing of boundaries. Some parliamentary history might be useful, but what would ecclesiastical history involve? Nev1 (talk) 19:43, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oops! I put Salford Hundred in by mistake, having cut and paste some material from elsewhere. :S I think the confusion about Wigan and Salfordshire exists because of nearby Aspull (which was part of Wigan parish but Salford Hundred)??? --Jza84 |  Talk  19:47, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(c/e) Aha! I was "flying blind" and assuming that both the VCH book and Youngs might be correct, but it appears that Youngs is correct and the VCH is not. In which case, the text in the article needs to be adjusted, I think. The ecclesiatical history could take up one paragraph (though its positioning may be up for discussion as well as whether to include it), and the parliamentary history seems straightforward, though it may conflict with the various articles on UK parliamentary constituencies, if my previous work is anything to go by (the articles on parliamentary constituencies are sometimes woefully referenced as well, but that is another issue.)  DDStretch  (talk) 19:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK - it was simple copy editing problem that I know I have done on occasion as well, not a VCH error. No harm done, but good to sort out.  DDStretch  (talk) 19:50, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There were quite a few instances of parishes crossing county boundaries and hundred boundaries (and detached bits, etc etc), and successive legislation tried to iron them out, along with all the detached bits of counties as well, in the nineteenth century. Aspull must be one of those cases.  DDStretch  (talk) 19:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, it certainly seems to be. Saddleworth is another - ecclesiastically part of Rochdale (Salfordshire), but judicially part of Agbrigg. Complex! Thanks for spotting this - it was a mistake I hadn't realised I'd done. At least somebody reads Wikipedia! hehe! --Jza84 |  Talk  20:17, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Coat of arms?[edit]

This sign was erected this year (2008), or so I'm led to believe. I was wondering if we have a better version of the coat of arms somewhere, which we could talk about in the Governance section? I can't find one anywhere mind. --Jza84 |  Talk  20:17, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also an electoral ward[edit]

Just thought it worth mentioning that Abram is also an electoral ward. This means a whole host of other demographic statistics are avaliable - ones which highlight a different population total already to the existing figure (and so probably worth a mention). --Jza84 |  Talk  23:50, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Medieval Abram[edit]

I've found this by the Wigan Archaeological Society, but despite the title of Murder & Mayhem in Medieval Abram, I'm not sure if it's much use. It gives a little background, but doesn't say what role Abram played, but I thought I'd leave the link here in case anyone thinks it's useful. Nev1 (talk) 22:55, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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