Talk:Abu Kamal

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What is the official name?[edit]

It would be of value if someone were to state clearly whether the "correct" name were Albu Kamal or Abu Kamal. The Syrian road signs say Albu so I believe that inasmuch as the Asad government has any legitimacy over nomenclature remaining, that is probably accurate. But is there a back story? Do some tribes traditionally say Abu? Is Albu an abscure Aramaic-origin word for "family" not accepted by tribals of the region? Is the confusion merely a function of Arabic's tendancy to flip consonants in popular contexts without worrying to much about them (like mutzawaj/mutjawaz)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.253.194.1 (talk) 17:11, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Unnecessary Info[edit]

I have started refining the article. It has a lot of unrelated information which I removed (like the quotes about Euphrates?) I also rearranged most of it. One of the users added his name at the end of the article, so I removed the name. --Anas Salloum 19:43, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed Vandalism[edit]

Removed Unsourced & Irrelevant POV Text: "I want to see the pictures of the four dead children because I don't believe this propoganda." 68.12.110.233 (talk) 14:51, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Better known as Abu Kamal[edit]

Among the names 'Al-Bukamal', 'Albu Kamal' and 'Abu Kamal', which should we use? The 2004 census used 'Abu Kamal'.[1] Googling them finds:

Term All results, News (recent/English pages) Books (in English)
"Al-Bukamal" Syria, 170 results, 267 results, 89 results
"Albu Kamal" Syria, 162 results, 150 results, 75 results
"Abu Kamal" Syria, 179 results, 310 results, 231 results

(NB Ignore Google's 'about 33,400 results' nonsense estimate, and get to the last page of results)

"Abu Kamal" seems the clear winner, and I propose moving this page to "Abu Kamal". Likewise Al-Bukamal District. Batternut (talk) 11:40, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "General Census of Population and Housing 2004" (PDF) (in Arabic). Syrian Central Bureau of Statistics. Retrieved 15 October 2015. Also available in English: "2004 Census Data". UN OCHA. Retrieved 15 October 2015.
I disagree.
  1. The 2004 census actually lists it as "Bukamal" and then "Al-Bukamal" (in the Arabic set) - the English sets is an unofficial translation that was possibly based on the Wikipedia transliteration (it used to be Abu Kamal).
  1. There seems to be indeed greater presence of the "Abu Kamal" spelling on google books but that is skewed by the fact that a portion of them refer to a person rather than the locality.
  • Interesting - Oh, yes the infamous Ali Hassan Abu Kamal does get a lot of hits! Searching for English books without the words Ali/Hassan/Empire/State/Building does even things out: al-Bukamal 21, Albu Kamal 26, Abu Kamal 53. And pre-1997 books then get: al-Bukamal 6, Albu Kamal 15, Abu Kamal 16 (having removed 2 other irrelevant hits). Batternut (talk) 14:51, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  1. The pronunciation of the name in Arabic is actually "Bukamal" or "al-Bukamal" (depending on whether "Al" is needed).
  • It is not Arabic pronunciation or precise transliteration is important - it is usage that should be followed (see WP:UE). It might be considered however that 'too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage'. Batternut (talk) 14:51, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would weak oppose moving it for now; but I honestly don't feel strongly either way. I think the current transliteration is more faithful to the Arabic name, and the disruption of yet another move (it would be the 4th time it's moved) is not justified by the evidence so far, hence my weak oppose. Yazan (talk) 13:16, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmm, checking previous moves, it seems that @Metron: and @Lothar von Richthofen: both moved it from Abu Kamal to Al-Bukamal for transliteration reasons, and @Al Ameer son: moved it to Abu Kamal as the 'official' name - but there was no discussion and no consulting the wikipedia article title policy. Batternut (talk) 22:15, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, as you can tell, there isn't exactly enormous interest from the WP community in these articles. And I think both transliterations can be argued for within WP:NAME. As I said, I am not too keen on Abu Kamal based on the evidence thus far, but if you decide to move (barring objection from other editors), I won't object either. Perhaps we can wait another week or so, to see if other editors drop in. Yazan (talk) 10:13, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not too much excitement, no - to wait a week is correct. Batternut (talk) 11:11, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

More usage stats: Google book search for atlases 'intitle:atlas "Abu Kamal"' gets 36 hits, where similar searches for "al-Bukamal" gets only 2 hits, and "Albu Kamal" gets none. Batternut (talk) 11:11, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

One can discuss if it's "Al-Bukamal" or "Abu Kamal" but "Albu Kamal" is total nonsense! Metron (talk) 18:54, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just for some clarity, the name is essentially "Al Bu Kamal" as in "Āl ('tribe or clan of') [A]Bū Kamāl". The incidence of "Al Bu [blank]" is common among the tribes and villages in the Deir ez-Zor region. It should also be said that all of the spellings are saying the same thing, but in a slightly different way. Anyhow, I support whatever's most commonly used, while keeping the alternative spellings in the first sentence of the lead. In google book searches "Abu Kamal" with Syria gets 1,970 hits, "Albu Kamal" gets 383 hits, "al-Bukamal" 366 hits, and "Al Bu-Kamal" 51 hits. --Al Ameer (talk) 22:26, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think book (discounting people called Abu Kamal) and particularly atlas reference counts swing the argument for Abu Kamal. Batternut (talk) 09:31, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Bearing in mind the above, I shall proceed with the move to Abu Kamal... Batternut (talk) 09:31, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The form of the name at Wikipedia in Arabic is البوكمال, that is al-Bukamal. Metron (talk) 23:34, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes indeed, as Cairo is written القاهرة‎‎ (al-Qāhirah) in Arabic, but it is English-language usage that is important for wikipedia article titles. Please read WP:TITLE, particularly WP:UE. Batternut (talk) 09:06, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree Abu Kamal and Al-Bukamal are completely different names, its orginal name of the city is Al-Bukamal not Abu Kamal.

The Arabic meanings of the names do differ significantly. But meanings do not matter, nor does which came first - it's the most commonly occurring name used in English (see WP:COMMONNAME) that is preferred. Batternut (talk) 16:32, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If the name is al-Bukamal in Arabic, that should be the English name. This place has no established English name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:547:500:4FC5:4C54:A036:6D4B:2AED (talk) 17:52, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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