Talk:Adaptive Combat Rifle/Archives/2024/January

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In need of an expert review

This article needs an expert to review it. Agreed, and there is no one who is more of an expert on the ACR than I am. I have worked on the ACR since it was brought to Bushmaster. Every shot fired through the commercial ACR before it went into production was done by me, or under my watch. I have been involved with all testing of the proposed military version of the weapon. I was transferred from Bushmaster to Remington for the continued development of the weapon. Yet when I try to update the page, I am considered a "dubious" source. That is like telling Einstein he is a dubious source for mathematics.Courtney97 (talk) 02:28, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

I've flagged this article as Needing Expert Attention. -Deathsythe (talk) 16:13, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Courtney97, nobody can actually verify your claims. The only way you could verify beyond a doubt would be to post personal information (pay stub from Bushmaster, etc.) and that is not recommended by common sense, and you would be a complete dumbass if you posted information like that. The nature of Wikipedia promotes anonymity. Can you answer the question of the 6.8? Grizzly chipmunk (talk) 15:13, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

File:Bushmaster normal.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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6.8 SPC

I don't want to put wrong things up, but at Remington Defense's site it lists 6.8 SPC as being available. However, I cannot find anything else to verify this, and the site does not list things like prices (of course) that I have found. Does anybody know anything not from a 2010-12 forum? Grizzly chipmunk (talk) 15:07, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

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Requested move 15 March 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Remington adaptive combat rifle. Seeing the need in the following discussion to rename this article, but no agreement as to the highest and best title. Since as closer I chose the new title, there is no prejudice toward any editor opening a new RM at any time to garner consensus for a better name for this article. Have a Great Day and Happy Publishing! (closed by page mover) Paine Ellsworth ^put'r there 17:35, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Remington ACR rifle → Remington ACR – Proposed on behalf of 115.164.74.219, see below. – Uanfala (talk) 14:32, 15 March 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. –Ammarpad (talk) 18:51, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

This article shows symptoms of RAS syndrome! 115.164.74.219 (talk) 02:34, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, so propose a better name and use the WP:RM process, there is no need for a full-blown thirty-day WP:RFC. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:26, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of converting this from an RfC into an RM. – Uanfala (talk) 14:32, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Support In ictu oculi (talk) 21:51, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
Oppose At this point, the acronym ACR is not a common term. Retaining the word Rifle continues to give clarification to the article title. At some point in the future, the acronym may become a common term.--TGC55 (talk) 06:33, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 31 May 2018

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The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 20:43, 7 June 2018 (UTC) moved to Remington ACR per the discussion below and a reply at User talk:Dekimasu that shows the editor who proposed the original request also prefers that title. Dekimasuよ! 23:32, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Remington adaptive combat rifle → Remington Adaptive Combat Rifle – The title should at least be correctly capitalised. However, my suggestion is more of a placeholder, just to say that the current title needs to be changed.

The two problems, as far as I can see, are: whether the select fire (military and law enforcement, Remington) or semi-auto (civilian, Bushmaster) version is the primary focus, and if the name of the weapon itself should be written in full or abbreviated.

Personally, I think the select fire version is the primary topic, though don't have a preference between abbreviated or written in full, as long as it doesn't have RAS syndrome (ACR rifle), and is properly capitalised.

Alternatively, if a primary focus can't be decided on, it could be "Remington/Bushmaster".

Thanks, RadiculousJ (talk) 22:15, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Support as uncontroversial and correct. Remington ACR is slightly more WP:COMMONNAME and would be been fine, too. I have a two-month old stinky trout for Paine Ellsworth closing the prior move to an undiscussed name. -- Netoholic @ 08:35, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Seemed like a good idea at the time. And look, we have an editor who seems to be out to make an improvement! We'll see how it turns out. Painius ^put'r there 19:46, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Support and as per above Remington ACR would be the better name עם ישראל חי (talk) 14:58, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

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Undiscussed move

@Gun Lover and CambridgeBayWeather: Whilst I personally don't have a problem with the new title, I'm not sure whether "Adaptive Combat Rifle" or "Remington ACR" is the more common title. The previous moves were discussed, and in cases like this, where neither option is wrong, I'm pretty sure it should be discussed. Also, the talk page hasn't been moved to the same name. Thanks, RadiculousJ (talk) 00:41, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 19 February 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:56, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Adaptive Combat Rifle → Remington ACR – Following up from the section above, I figured doing a proper move discussion would be the best way to resolve this, given that, nicest will in the world, me pinging the editors involved was ignored. As with the previous move discussion, I don't actually have a preference, just think it should be properly discussed, given that the undiscussed move was less than 18 months after a discussed move. Also, this article has been moved an almost excessive number of times over the last 3 years, so can we pick one name and stick with it, unless there's a darn good reason to move it again in the future! Cheers, RadiculousJ (talk) 04:22, 19 February 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. BegbertBiggs (talk) 16:18, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

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Requested move 16 July 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Closed as Moved to Adaptive Combat Rifle. The OP, who had some discussions with me on my talk page about the title, has been blocked as a sock. That leaves two clear Supports and no clear Opposes. (non-admin closure) BilCat (talk) 00:29, 30 July 2023 (UTC) BilCat (talk) 00:29, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Remington ACR → Bushmaster ACR – Replace Remington with Bushmaster as the firearm's manufacturer. Remington Arms has stopped manufacturing the ACR after they filed for bankruptcy in March 2018. Bushmaster announced their return in August 2021. According to TheFirearmBlog, "Bushmaster International stated, The preliminary offerings will focus on variants of the XM15-E2S model such as the QRC and M4 Patrolman’s. We look forward to supporting law enforcement, military markets and re-establishing export sales with these items. In the future, we look forward to producing the ACR and models chambered in 450 Bushmaster." Bushmaster International now has the rights to manufacture and produce the ACR for the military, law enforcement and civilian market. JTC22 (talk) 02:41, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

See WP:DEFUNCTS and WP:NAMECHANGES. Wikipedia does not try to use the latest branding; instead it uses the WP:COMMONNAME in independent reliable sources, and is interested in historical topics as well as current ones. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:52, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
The scope of this article is not merely on the Remington ACR but as well as the Bushmaster ACR. Remington Arms stopped producing the rifle after they filed for bankruptcy. Later, Bushmaster Firearms International took over the ACR project and plans to start manufacturing the rifle. On previous move discussions, I don't see anyone opposing to the new tittle I proposed. JTC22 (talk) 04:48, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
"plans to start" sounds too soon. We should check back after waiting to see if WP:independent reliable sources start primarily using that name. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 05:56, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Technically, the Bushmaster ACR name has already been used to refer to the semi-automatic version of the rifle since 2008. Making it a common name by now. The problem lies with the history of the rifle. Magpul was the original company who worked on the ACR, but then it was known as the Masada. The project was then handed over the Bushmaster Firearms International to continue working on the rifle. It was renamed to as the ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle) but Remington was given the rights to produce and market the select-fire variant of the rifle. At this current moment, Bushmaster now has the rights of both select-fire and semi-automatic. JTC22 (talk) 07:05, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Ok. I do not oppose this renaming. The proposer knows more about the subject than I do, and the proposed name has had some use, so I defer to their judgment. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:26, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
So no one opposed for over a week now. Can we rename/move this article to the new name? JTC22 (talk) 07:05, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
Comment @JTC22: I was considering closing this as ultimately an unopposed request, but I do think WP:NAMECHANGES weighs against the move you request for the moment. However, you're essentially arguing (correctly, I believe) that the Remington ACR and the Bushmaster ACR are two separate things covered in a combined article, and in fact nearly equal weight in the article is given to each. So wouldn't the best title be Adaptive Combat Rifle, with the common names of the two versions redirecting here, rather than trying to decide on one or the other? It doesn't quite make sense to me that just because Remington stopped manufacturing their version that it would by default make the Bushmaster version the common name in general. After all, there are plenty of Remington ACRs out there in the world, and they don't become Bushmaster ACRs just because Remington no longer exists. Mdewman6 (talk) 22:34, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
I have thought about that too but the acronym, ACR is more commonly used. If you look at the history of the rifle, Bushmaster was the company granted to further develop the project, Remington only worked on the select-fire version which went nowhere. However the civilian Bushmaster ACR had more interest, and had gotten its own aftermarket community. JTC22 (talk) 00:46, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

If "ACR" is the true WP:COMMONNAME that best reflects the subject of this article in its entirety, than that points to the expansion of the initialism being the best title, per WP:NCA. Mdewman6 (talk) 20:47, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Adaptive Combat Rifle might be the best name for now until the new Bushmaster company starts manufacturing the ACR again under their name. JTC22 (talk) 09:58, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Support Adaptive Combat Rifle per Mdewman, as a WP:NATURAL title that encompasses both the Remington and Bushmaster versions. ACR may be a more common term, but it's an acronym with a lot of possible meanings and I doubt this rifle would meet the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC criteria. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:45, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm neutral with Adaptive Combat Rifle being the new tittle name. JTC22 (talk) 14:52, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Magpul massoud" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Magpul massoud has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 July 26 § Magpul massoud until a consensus is reached. Mdewman6 (talk) 21:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)