Talk:Administrative divisions of the Tuva Republic

Naming of the kozhuuns

At Barun-Khemchiksky District it says "Municipal District of the Barun-Khemchiksky Kozhuun". Formerly the article was named Barun-Khemchiksky Kozhuun. At that time it was consistent. Why not rename them to Kozhuun and rename all Raions to Raions? Russia is very complex and with English terms one looses a lot. E.g. the word district from the federal districts of Russia comes from the word "okrug". But in autonomous okrugs of Russia the word okrug is not translated. And for the economic regions of Russia the word "raion" is translated as region. I think it is clearer to stick with transliterated and anglicized terms, instead of using translations.

Back to the intro, I don't know what the Russian term for the word "district" in "Municipal District of the Barun-Khemchiksky Kozhuun" is. If transliteration would be used it might be obvious. Royaume du Maroc (talk) 01:26, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

"Kozhuun" is not a word in English, and such words shouldn't be used in article titles when a good English alternative exists. "District", on the other hand, is the most commonly used English term to refer to the administrative unit known as "kozhuun"/"raion" in Tuva and as "raion" elsewhere in Russia. "Barun-Khemchiksky" is the name of the raion, and we use "district" to translate the term "raion" across all district articles. "Barun-Khemchiksky Kozhuun" is the direct romanization of the Russian construct (proper name+type identifier), and is a poor choice for an article title, since a good English equivalent is available. "Municipal District of the Barun-Khemchiksky Kozhuun" is the full name of the municipal unit (the borders of which match the borders of the administrative district, although it is still a distinctly different type of unit). Here, "municipal district" is the unit type, and "Barun-Khemchiksky Kozhuun" is the proper name (note that "kozhuun" here is a part of the proper name, which is why it is transliterated, not translated).

Regarding other translations, we use the terms which are used in English, and we use the most general term the situation allows. Economic regions are never called "economic raions" in English". Similarly, federal districts are seldom referred to in English as "federal okrugs", but other types of okrugs are usually referred to as either "okrugs" or by some other term (such as "district" or "area"). Since such translations, as you correctly noted, would create a lot of confusion with other similarly-named concepts, they are not used and a more specific "okrug" (which is, by the way, a loanword in English, not just a transliteration like "kozhuun") becomes a better option. With raions, on the other hand, using the term "districts" creates minimal confusion, it is a term that's commonly used in English to refer to the raions, and it is immediately recognizable by the readers (most of whom, I imagine, would have to look "raion" up).

All in all, the terminology currently used is the best balance between the needs to be specific and the needs to be recognizable (the federal districts/administrative districts overlap is by far the only one). Sure, it is possible to use "raion" instead of "district", but the benefit of doing so is minimal, while at the same time the clarity of the articles' titles will suffer. By the way, the "raion" variants (as well as numerous alternate spellings of the proper names of the districts) are already set as redirects to the corresponding articles.

I realize this answer is probably a lot more than you expected, but note that the complication here is mostly due to Tuva's use of the term "kozhuun". With other federal subjects, it's not nearly as bad :) Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 11, 2012; 18:39 (UTC)

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