Talk:Adrastus of Aphrodisias

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Removed a line[edit]

I removed this line from the article:

"a work on Harmonics, Περὶ Ἁρμονικῶν ("On Harmonics"), is preserved, in manuscript, in the Vatican Library."

I can't find any reference to a surviving manuscript by Adrastus in any modern source. Singinglemon (talk) 20:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I've found the Vossius source and added it to the article. Amusingly, it also touches on the Stephanus of Byzantium issue below.

Original Latin/Greek:

De aetate, Patriaque, & praeceptore, cognoscimus ex Stephano in Φῐ́λῐπποι, ubi legas: ἔνθεν ᾖν αδραστας, o περιπατητικός φῐλοσοφῐ́ᾱς. Adrasti Peripatetici Harmonicorum libri tres adservantur Romae in bibliotheca Vaticana; item illa Cardinalis a S. Angelo. Dispiciendum, idemnesit, sc ille, quem Galenus in Aristotelis Categorias commentarium refer opusculo (Tom. 4 pg 191 edit. Ald.) de libris propriis. Alium fuisse, necesse est, si Alexander Aphrodisiensis, primus corum, ut dicitur, fuerit, qui ad libros Aristotelis enarrandos animum appulerunt.

Translation:

About age, country, and teacher, we learn from Stephanus as "Φῐ́λῐπποι", where you can read: ἔνθεν ᾖν αδραστας, O περιπατητικός φῐλοσοφῐ́ᾱς. Three books of Adrastus the Peripatetic Harmonics are kept at Rome in the Vatican library; likewise that of the Cardinal from San Angelo. It should be noted that he is the same person whom Galen refers to in Aristotle's Commentary on Categories (Tom. 4 pg. 191 edit. Ald.) about his own books. There must have been another, if Alexander of Aphrodisias, as it is said, was the first of those who turned their attention to narrating the books of Aristotle.

So Vossius associates the books that he apparently knows about in the Vatican with Adrastus of Philippi as mentioned by Stephanus of Byzantium. which is the same as Adrastus of Aphrodisias. Probably good enough to cite the reference. - car chasm (talk) 06:51, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Found what's probably the manuscript Vossius was referencing here, according to the catalog it's actually a work with the same title by Manuel Bryennios here which was misattributed. Ah well, no lost music book crumbling away in a closet somewhere in the british museum, but we have a source to cite now. - car chasm (talk) 07:14, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

tl;dr: Vossius was wrong. - car chasm (talk) 07:26, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Adrastus of Philippi[edit]

As I mentioned on Talk:Adrastus of Philippi, ages ago, I'm doubtful that there was an Adrastus of Philippi. I remember looking into the issue at the time, and I suspect that Philippi may simply be an alternative birthplace of Adrastus of Aphrodisias from some obscure ancient author, although I couldn't conclusively prove it. (I couldn't find a reference where anyone specifically discussed this question.) The statement that he was "of the 4th century BC, pupil of Aristotle," I think, is a simple misreading that Adrastus was a "disciple" of Aristotle, i.e. a Peripatetic philosopher of a much later time. Certainly it would be quite a coincidence if there were two Adrastuses who both wrote a treatise on harmonics. Singinglemon (talk) 16:57, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The philosophers of the ancient world: an A to Z guide‎ reports two Adrastuses one of Aphrodisias 2nd century and one of Philippi (4th century?).Well he may be the same person born in Philippi and lived in Aphrodisias, but is the title of the treatise of Adrastus of Aphrodisias reported as Harmonicon biblia tria ? Catalographer (talk) 17:44, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I remember now, yes it was Stephanus of Byzantium I was thinking of, as the source of this Philippi comment. The Fragmente der griechischen Historiker is, unfortunately, rather cryptic on the subject, so its hard to know what Stephanus says, other that that "Adrastus the Peripatetic" was associated with Phillipi. The Dictionary of Music, is a tertiary source, and of little value, and besides, it only mentions the one Adrastus, even if it does say he was "b. Philippi", the author must surely mean Adrastus of Aphrodisias. As to the "three volumes" on Harmonics, this seems to refer to the supposed manuscript said by Vossius to have been in the Vatican Library, according to the The Biographical Dictionary of the Society for the Diffusion of Useful Knowledge. I'm not sure, it all seems a bit confused, and the fact that I can't anything authorative on "Adrastus of Philippi" is what makes me doubt his existence. It is interesting that Trevor Curnow mentions him in his The philosophers of the ancient world guide; he seems to give a reference, but without knowing what the reference is, it's hard to judge further. Singinglemon (talk) 19:18, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Right, well I've done what I think is right. I've left in the Stephanus of Byzantium info. But I've removed the music reference, since I don't think it's credible. I've cited Trevor Curnow's book, but left it ambiguous. To me, the really telling point is that none of the textbooks on Peripatetic philosophy mention an "Adrastus of Philippi"; some of these books are quite happy to list every obscure Peripatetic philosopher, even those known from a single mention. Singinglemon (talk) 00:10, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]